While I agree with the last sentence, the idea that test instruments get outdated in 2 - 3 years is ludicrous, sorry.

In general, test equipment has a primary use live (i.e. where it's used by its first owner) of 7 to 10 years, and in many cases even longer (and after that usually comes second life via the 2nd hand market).

Also, the T&M market isn't like the smartphone market where every year dozens of new models are released to keep people spending money. Most big brands support its kit for 5-8 years after end of production, as are product cycles.

Considering that a decently equipped mid-range scope already costs around $15k-$20k, and high-end scopes reach >$1M, it's clear why even for large companies test equipment is a serious investment that for sure won't be written off after only 2-3 years.

+1

I getting ready to EOL a batch of 20 year old Tek scopes (I've got my eye on one classic Tektronix 2230 for the new workbench) that still are in the ISO/TS 16949 calibration quality system. The next guy, I hope, will get to EOL my new stuff sooner.

 

If I didn't already have a scope and needed to buy one right now for personal use my #1 choice would be a Tektronix TDS220.
Get a bid on this one. Located in U.S.A. Current bid is US$70!!!
Expires on Sunday.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-...937465&hash=item1a78dd7a94:g:IMoAAOSwvQdcmAKQ

Not much better than a TDS360, really. 2.5kpts sample memory and a piss-poor low-res monochrome LCD aren't exactly great features.

For <$100 it's OK but considering that a TDS 220 tends to go for around $200 the same I said about the TDS360 is true here as well: it would be silly to sink such an amount of money in such an old, outdated and under-spec'd scope when $299 buy you a new one that is much better, brand new and comes with 3yr warranty.

In general, brand fetishism is a bad advisor. Even less so when the actual products were under-performers even when they were new.

 

Not much better than a TDS360, really. 2.5kpts sample memory and a piss-poor low-res monochrome LCD aren't exactly great features.

For <$100 it's OK but considering that a TDS 220 tends to go for around $200 the same I said about the TDS360 is true here as well: it would be silly to sink such an amount of money in such an old, outdated and under-spec'd scope when $299 buy you a new one that is much better, brand new and comes with 3yr warranty.

In general, brand fetishism is a bad advisor. Even less so when the actual products were under-performers even when they were new.

Don't you go bad talking about my old hunting dog. Would I buy one today, no but I will keep her to the end.

We have a few TDS 220 scopes at work that are on my EOL list. My last EOL list had about 20 Fluke 77 meters that were replaced with Fluke 179's because of upgraded CAT requirements. Some are given to EE dept. users but most were donated. I'm sure all the old scopes will be taken internally.

 

Don't you go bad talking about my old hunting dog. Would I buy one today, no but I will keep her to the end.

Ha, yeah you're right of course, I'm not suggesting if you have one to throw it away

Don't forget, though, that this thread is about what's a good scope for beginners, which means practicallity plays a different role than when you just hang on to an old piece of kit from the good days.

 

Ha, yeah you're right of course, I'm not suggesting if you have one to throw it away

Don't forget, though, that this thread is about what's a good scope for beginners, which means practicallity plays a different role than when you just hang on to an old piece of kit from the good days.

If all you have is $70 bucks, it's not IMO a poor investment for a first learning scope because it is so basic. I also think there is value in forcing the new user to knob fiddle a more manual (stick shift) drive scope with low power a bit to learn how to interpolate small slices of signals mentally. Letting the scope tell you massive amounts of signal information is great if you have the experience to manipulate the scope to zoom-in and interpret those signals to a specific design function or problem.

 

If all you have is $70 bucks, it's not IMO a poor investment for a first learning scope because it is so basic.

Sure, *if* it stays at $70. Chances are it will exceed $100 by quite some margin when it runs out.

 

I worked at a university, in an EE department, I can tell you there was great competition for space on our benches, and the sales folks told me it helps them in industrial sales to be able to say that such-and-such university uses out instruments in their labs.

I tend to agree with this there are allot of techs that get trained on one thing, even in other fields, and never branch out. Low intrinsic openness people. There is brand loyalty it is a real thing, I saw this in the scuba industry allot.

Sure, *if* it stays at $70. Chances are it will exceed $100 by quite some margin when it runs out.

I agree with this also. That is why i am thinking of one of these. for my self cant get any cheaper. Let me be honest i don't even know how to begin shopping for one of these so spending allot of money just dosen't make sense until i teach me self enough i understand 1/3 of the bells and whistles with these things. The thing i don't know is will this read the signals from something like a cellphone or a Arduino. The big use cases i can see my self using one for are the repair of, cellphones, arduinos (& other micro controllers), and Tv's. I am going to start with three projects I have in mind now. If i like doing it enough Ill do a larger purchase latter.

https://www.amazon.com/Hantek-HT6022BE20Mhz-Digital-Oscilloscope-Bandwidth/dp/B009H4AYII/ref=pd_day0_hl_0_1/142-5052852-0719329?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B009H4AYII&pd_rd_r=e210baf0-537f-11e9-9558-8b08d920be85&pd_rd_w=LE97C&pd_rd_wg=vWUnG&pf_rd_p=ad07871c-e646-4161-82c7-5ed0d4c85b07&pf_rd_r=YAZ8Z1BZYY2X5P39HDNZ&psc=1&refRID=YAZ8Z1BZYY2X5P39HDNZ

 

Wuerstchenhund said: ↑
Sure, *if* it stays at $70. Chances are it will exceed $100 by quite some margin when it runs out.

I agree with this also. That is why i am thinking of one of these. for my self cant get any cheaper.

Sure, if it stays that low. But for >$100 there are other options.

Let me be honest i don't even know how to begin shopping for one of these so spending allot of money just dosen't make sense until i teach me self enough i understand 1/3 of the bells and whistles with these things. The thing i don't know is will this read the signals from something like a cellphone or a Arduino. The big use cases i can see my self using one for are the repair of, cellphones, arduinos (& other micro controllers), and Tv's. I am going to start with three projects I have in mind now. If i like doing it enough Ill do a larger purchase latter.

Depends what you men with "repair of cellphones", as this is usually limited to replacing components as there's very little you can do on a tightly integrated PCB that pretty much just consist of one large SoC.

It's probably easier on TVs, but to do it professionally (i.e. as a business) may not produce the revenue you require to make it worthwhile. That depends on a wide range of factors (i.e. location) and should be part of your business plan.

As to working with Arduino and similar controllers, you may want a scope that can decode serial communication signals and maybe even include an LA part (these scopes are called MSO). You also may want to record longer sequences (i.e. to check current draw) so sample memory is kind of important, too.

In any case, I think it makes much more sense to establish what you really need to do what you want first (get some help from someone who has experience and can help you), and then buy what you need. There is little point investing even $70 in something that very likely not do what you you need, money that would have better spent saving towards something that is actually useful for your tasks.

What you want to do involves dealing with quite some complex integrated circuits, so serial decode will help you. That also means you should consider opting for at least something like a Rigol DS1054z or Siglent SDS1202X-E for any serious work.

Unfortunately there is still a limit to how low you can go while still getting a tool not a toy.

 

As a note, people who do board level repair of cell phones don’t use scopes because the methods involve a particular use of the diode check on a DMM. So, for that purpose, a good DMM is far more important.

You can easily find videos explaining cell phone repair on YouTube. The methods are very empirical and in some cases involve a misunderstanding of the actual electronics involved but they are effective.

 

If I didn't already have a scope and needed to buy one right now for personal use my #1 choice would be a Tektronix TDS220.
Get a bid on this one. Located in U.S.A. Current bid is US$70!!!
Expires on Sunday.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-...937465&hash=item1a78dd7a94:g:IMoAAOSwvQdcmAKQ

Winning bid US$156.50 plus shipping.

 

What you want to do involves dealing with quite some complex integrated circuits, so serial decode will help you. That also means you should consider opting for at least something like a Rigol DS1054z or Siglent SDS1202X-E for any serious work.

Unfortunately there is still a limit to how low you can go while still getting a tool not a toy.

I totally appreciate that advice I understand what your saying too. However the real uses i have for it is debugging circuits I may be building with micro controllers. reality is that my need for that is not that often. An a large expense at this time feels foolish. I guess the real question is should i just get something like this. Around the same price and a learning experience. Since I am just fooling around a toy seems appropriate.

https://www.amazon.com/Kuman-Oscilloscope-Source-15001K-pre-soldered/dp/B01N6PUX70/ref=sr_1_6?crid=20DN7ONLVOUJ6&keywords=oscilloscope+kit&qid=1554186071&s=gateway&sprefix=oscilliosc%2Caps%2C181&sr=8-6

As a note, people who do board level repair of cell phones don’t use scopes because the methods involve a particular use of the diode check on a DMM. So, for that purpose, a good DMM is far more important.

You can easily find videos explaining cell phone repair on YouTube. The methods are very empirical and in some cases involve a misunderstanding of the actual electronics involved but they are effective.

True I've watched a bit of Lewis rossman and i know what your talking about. 90% of what he dose is look for corrosion on the board witha micro scope not use a Oscilloscope.

I guess the real question is will I fall into circuit design or repair, if any of this becomes something more serious than a hobby. Just to get my feet wet. I am thinking a toy is a good place to start. When I figure this question out I may upgrade.

 

I guess the real question is will I fall into circuit design or repair, if any of this becomes something more serious than a hobby. Just to get my feet wet. I am thinking a toy is a good place to start. When I figure this question out I may upgrade.

So you have to decide whether you want to learn about oscilloscopes, or just look at some waveforms. The kit might be fun to assemble, but what you will have when you are done will be of very limited utility.

If you can stretch your budget to the very low end of entry level scopes, 50MHz, 2-channel, you will have a tool and find it much less frustrating.

This paradox can be frustrating, but it is the unskilled person who needs the good tools to help fill the gaps in skill and knowledge while the skilled person can look at that little scope and see what isn’t really there but is in their mind.

As an aside, the skilled person, can, of course, do more with whatever they have to hand.

 

Hi Yaakov,
My new SDS1202X-E is getting some real use while helping a new forum member on this thread. It is nice to be able to look at very slow waveforms with a sweep rate of 1 second per division and also be able to save the trace so it can be posted on the forum. It used to be so messy taking photographs of the trace on my analogue scope.

Les.

 

Hi Yaakov,
My new SDS1202X-E is getting some real use while helping a new forum member on this thread. It is nice to be able to look at very slow waveforms with a sweep rate of 1 second per division and also be able to save the trace so it can be posted on the forum. It used to be so messy taking photographs of the trace on my analogue scope.

Les.

Really great to hear that, Have you played with EasyScope yet?

 

Found a classic while checking the old scope inventory.
http://w140.com/tek_5111a_r5111a.pdf

 

So you have to decide whether you want to learn about oscilloscopes, or just look at some waveforms. The kit might be fun to assemble, but what you will have when you are done will be of very limited utility.

If you can stretch your budget to the very low end of entry level scopes, 50MHz, 2-channel, you will have a tool and find it much less frustrating.

This paradox can be frustrating, but it is the unskilled person who needs the good tools to help fill the gaps in skill and knowledge.

Your right that is annoying. There is no good starter point that won't hinder you. I am trying to look at this like other hobbies I have had in the past I don't hop allot but it can be frustrating to end up with equipment you don't use and i see your point.

 

I have been wanting one of those digital scopes for years. I have an old analog 2 channel that I have used for years.........the switches and pots are wore out and #1 channel and the high voltage is getting soft.

And then my Keurig went out. After 10 years it finally died. Ordered a new one.....and when it came, I watched and listened and smelled.........then tasted that brand new coffee.

NEW IS NICE.

I immediately ordered 1202X-E. Got it a few weeks ago.

I ate the bacon.

 

Found a classic while checking the old scope inventory.
http://w140.com/tek_5111a_r5111a.pdf

Somewhere, I think, I have two scopes. My very first, a 2Mhz Leader I got in the 80s, which was fantastic for audio work compared to nothing at all, and I was tickled to have an oscilloscope. My fiends and colleagues in the recording studio business considered such things as on par with rocket science. It saw a lot of use in troubleshooting and cemented my high-nerd status.

The other I saved from the scrap pile at work. It is a Tektronix analog storage scope. Massive with tiny screen but oh it's from the vintage of the Leader, and so it makes me imagine if I'd had that back then. Also, storage tube, baby![/QUOTE]

 

My very first scope I got as a kid had been built by a friend who was a ham and who built it from scratch. It was based on valves, single channel, with a BW of maybe 1MHz, but it did the job. I passed it on to another friend who started fiddling with electronics several years later.

After that scope I went through a few Hameg analog scopes which were actually pretty nice. Easy to use, reliable, build from standard parts and service-friendly so easily repairable, typical German engineering.

Later at work my first DSO was a Philips/Fluke PM3320A 200MHz 250MSa/s 10bit DSO which quickly became my main workhorse while colleages used to stick with their analog scopes (mostly Tek 475s).

Ah, the good old days

 

My very first scope I got as a kid had been built by a friend who was a ham and who built it from scratch. It was based on valves, single channel, with a BW of maybe 1MHz, but it did the job. I passed it on to another friend who started fiddling with electronics several years later.

After that scope I went through a few Hameg analog scopes which were actually pretty nice. Easy to use, reliable, build from standard parts and service-friendly so easily repairable, typical German engineering.

Later at work my first DSO was a Philips/Fluke PM3320A 200MHz 250MSa/s 10bit DSO which quickly became my main workhorse while colleages used to stick with their analog scopes (mostly Tek 475s).

Ah, the good old days

Tek hooked me early. There is something about a first love.
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/...nt-1202xe-thoughts.141452/page-2#post-1198753