. Just make sure the compensation range is sufficient for your scope's input.

How do you determine that?

 

How do you determine that?

From the spec sheets:

For the Rigol scope:



From a probe:

 

I have learned allot from this post but I have to say I sadly am going to go the other way. Pictured below is the work bench total cost to setup si no more than 250$ and buying a bit of kit for more than the whole thing feels wrong. If your feet were really to the fire to buy the cheapest most functional thing you could get your hands on price being the biggest qualifier. What would you go with. I am almost thinking the toy my professor suggested. say $100.00 max.

 

Also these two links were kind of interesting.

https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1326699&page_number=6

https://www.instructables.com/id/Use-Your-Laptop-as-Oscilloscope/

Toys for the most part i know but cool all the same.

 

Toys for the most part

What can I say? ... it's your choice. But I can't be the one to talk, I own a cheap-o, crappy hantek USB scope.

My deepest gratitude to you and this thread. Thanks to you I found the love of my life, the hackable Rigol DS1054z ...

 

What can I say? ... it's your choice. But I can't be the one to talk, I own a cheap-o, crappy hantek USB scope.

My deepest gratitude to you and this thread. Thanks to you I found the love of my life, the hackable Rigol DS1054z ...

seems I tend to start well end poor I guess there is a trend there I should buck right and take your advice.

Just cant see me using a scope more than once or twice every few years. I can not imagine even the most vocal of members avouching for a need to buy something 4x the price for that little use. Truth is I have never looked back and asked when else would i have used a scope and the answer came back once. It was for a board in a tv and that may have saved me 20$ It just dose not make sense today for those numbers. I hope as my skill goes up this will just be a hold over but for a past value of 20$ dose not make sense. I may start working on cellphones in the future if i need one at that time I may pop for a biger price than just 500$.

 

Special note the tv connected to the PC is the one I replaced the display board in.

 

While it's great that you can get some "scope" for less than $300, it should be remembered that the oscilloscope is supposed to be a measuring instrument, i.e. it's expected to show a certain level of precision, reliability and dependability. Just because a gadget shows a waveform doesn't make it a really dependable tool, and most of them have probably not even seen a calibration facility.

In my view, the current borderline between a toy and a tool is the $299 Siglent SDS1000CML+, which is the cheapest digital scope from a brand that has at least some reputation (although I'd still recommend to pay a little more and get the Rigol DS1054z or a Siglent SDS1000X-E instead).

As far as new devices are concerned, everything below that is pretty much just a toy.

Of course, if the available budget just doesn't stretch to $299 then the 2nd hand market may be worth a look. Early generation HP 54600 Series scopes can often be found for little money, i.e. I've seen the 54645D (a 100MHz 2ch MSO) or the non-MSO A variant go for less than $200. These digital scopes may be old but they still make great beginners' scopes, and are perfect to teach how to use a DSO correcly.

If someone can't afford even this, i.e. with a budget of less than $100, well then there are still analog scopes, but I'd strongly recommend to rather start saving until you can afford something better.

And if you find yourself in a position where you need a scope only every so often per year then it would make more sense to find someone in your area where you can borrow a proper scope from for the few occasions you need one.

 

Just an FYI -- Keysight has a scope made for beginners -- I recently covered it at APEC: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/ne...keysight-aim-for-maker-and-education-markets/

And if you sign up for their marketing -- you'll be notified when they give them away: https://www.keysight.com/en/pcx-x2015004/oscilloscopes?nid=-32546.0.00&lc=eng&cc=US Winning one is a longshot, of course, but even if you had to buy one outright, they start at around $400 new, I think.

 

Just an FYI -- Keysight has a scope made for beginners -- I recently covered it at APEC: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/ne...keysight-aim-for-maker-and-education-markets/

And if you sign up for their marketing -- you'll be notified when they give them away: https://www.keysight.com/en/pcx-x2015004/oscilloscopes?nid=-32546.0.00&lc=eng&cc=US Winning one is a longshot, of course, but even if you had to buy one outright, they start at around $400 new, I think.

I looked at Keysight before buying the Siglent and getting a lot more for the money. If it was free it would be a better deal, but dollar for dollar, the Siglent (and Rigol) beat it. Their starter scopes seemed targeted at education and commercial maker stuff.

 

@Yaakov,
Makes sense -- I'm still rocking a Tek MDO3000 series -- but if I hadn't gotten it for free, I imagine I'd be playing with something USB-based right about now.

 

I looked at Keysight before buying the Siglent and getting a lot more for the money. If it was free it would be a better deal, but dollar for dollar, the Siglent (and Rigol) beat it. Their starter scopes seemed targeted at education and commercial maker stuff.

I suspect there is quite a large discount for education too, making them far cheaper than Siglent and Rigol. For example, I got the complete SolidWorks set, including COSMOS modeling, in 2003 for a little over $200 on an educational discount. I have never quite understood that strategy. Loyalty? That and $5 will buy coffee.

 

I suspect there is quite a large discount for education too, making them far cheaper than Siglent and Rigol. For example, I got the complete SolidWorks set, including COSMOS modeling, in 2003 for a little over $200 on an educational discount. I have never quite understood that strategy. Loyalty? That and $5 will buy coffee.

Students tend to use what they learn. Companies like to have engineers trained on particular gear. If Keysight has a strong presence in education, they are going to have an easier time selling into industry.

 

Students tend to use what they learn. Companies like to have engineers trained on particular gear.

That's where we disagree. Instruments are outdated in 2 to 3 years. I want someone who knows what they are doing. I cannot speak for employment offices at large companies. That is a situation where the least capable people are controlling the resources available to the most capable.

When hired a tech, I gave very little worth to the list of instruments they claimed to be able to operate. First off, they were mostly lies. Second, I wasn't interested in someone who took pride in knowing what buttons to press. In fact, they were often very poorly trained to work those instruments. I wanted someone who was able think and problem solve.

 

I am thinking about getting a Oscilloscope. Under 500$ I am not sure if I should go used, new or really how to shop for one. Any recommendations on flat out purchases or a good trust worthy guide that wold teach a noob how to shop for one?

If you can get a tektronix, dual-trace 2GS/s scope, even used, that is still calibrated and the screen doesn't have a phosphor burn (ie, it's a low-hour scope), get it. Like a TDS-360 (which is a DSO hybrid- early days. but is still analog), you likely will never need another scope as long as you take care of it.

Make sure you get one probe for each trace- and a spare! You will never get the probes more affordably than while you're getting the scope, because they want to sell the scope. The probes alone could conceivably cost more than the scope, depending on brand because at the end of the day how your scope sees the voltage world is at the sole-discretion of your probes.

 

That's where we disagree. Instruments are outdated in 2 to 3 years. I want someone who knows what they are doing. I cannot speak for employment offices at large companies. That is a situation where the least capable people are controlling the resources available to the most capable.

When hired a tech, I gave very little worth to the list of instruments they claimed to be able to operate. First off, they were mostly lies. Second, I wasn't interested in someone who took pride in knowing what buttons to press. In fact, they were often very poorly trained to work those instruments. I wanted someone who was able think and problem solve.

I feel for you. There is no substitute for knowledge, experience, and a mind that can manage both in harmony.

 

That's where we disagree. Instruments are outdated in 2 to 3 years. I want someone who knows what they are doing. I cannot speak for employment offices at large companies. That is a situation where the least capable people are controlling the resources available to the most capable.

When hired a tech, I gave very little worth to the list of instruments they claimed to be able to operate. First off, they were mostly lies. Second, I wasn't interested in someone who took pride in knowing what buttons to press. In fact, they were often very poorly trained to work those instruments. I wanted someone who was able think and problem solve.

I worked at a university, in an EE department, I can tell you there was great competition for space on our benches, and the sales folks told me it helps them in industrial sales to be able to say that such-and-such university uses out instruments in their labs.

 

If you can get a tektronix, dual-trace 2GS/s scope, even used, that is still calibrated and the screen doesn't have a phosphor burn (ie, it's a low-hour scope), get it. Like a TDS-360 (which is a DSO hybrid- early days. but is still analog), you likely will never need another scope as long as you take care of it.

Only if you ignore what else is out there, because otherwise there's a good change you wished you never bought a Tek.

Because not just by today's standards, the TDS360 (which btw is a true DSO, not an analog scope or hybrid scope!) is an awful scope. It's sample memory is a measly 1kpts which means your sample rate (and thereby your usable BW) drops like a rock on anything other than the shortest timebase settings, and it's slow architecture makes anything more than looking at a waveform an exercise in self-flagellation (and functions like FFT nothing more than a tick box exercise on the spec sheet).

In addition, like many older Tek DSOs the TDS360, too, suffers from the capacitor plague (i.e. caps start leaking and damaging the PCB in the process).

Other Tektronix digital scopes aren't much better, and all have in common that they are built on a very slow architecture.

Considering that TDS360s still go for $200-$400 it would be insane to buy one when $300 already buys you a brand new scope (Siglent SDS1102CML+) that's already vastly better than the Tek, or (for the cash strapped) <$200 with some luck may get you a HP 54645A/D scope, which is much nicer to operate, much faster and while it's also from the mid-'90s it already comes with 1M memory.

I can understand why people are fond of Tektronix, after all. they were the kings of analog scopes back in the day. But as far as digital scopes go, Tektronix never made anything that could hold up with the other big brands like HP/Agilent/Keysight or the DSO inventor LeCroy.

 

That's where we disagree. Instruments are outdated in 2 to 3 years. I want someone who knows what they are doing.

While I agree with the last sentence, the idea that test instruments get outdated in 2 - 3 years is ludicrous, sorry.

In general, test equipment has a primary use live (i.e. where it's used by its first owner) of 7 to 10 years, and in many cases even longer (and after that usually comes second life via the 2nd hand market).

Also, the T&M market isn't like the smartphone market where every year dozens of new models are released to keep people spending money. Most big brands support its kit for 5-8 years after end of production, as are product cycles.

Considering that a decently equipped mid-range scope already costs around $15k-$20k, and high-end scopes reach >$1M, it's clear why even for large companies test equipment is a serious investment that for sure won't be written off after only 2-3 years.

 

If I didn't already have a scope and needed to buy one right now for personal use my #1 choice would be a Tektronix TDS220.
Get a bid on this one. Located in U.S.A. Current bid is US$70!!!
Expires on Sunday.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-...937465&hash=item1a78dd7a94:g:IMoAAOSwvQdcmAKQ