So why in the world should I rush out and spend $1300 for a new phone that has 74 new features that I have no use for at all, plus an instruction set with 17 menu levels, and a shorter battery charge life than my present old phone??? Not to mention a new, user-hostile operating system that has every regular function changed as to how it is implemented??
How in the world would such a new device serve me one speck better?? Consider that I have no desire to watch movies on my phone, nor TV shows, nor search the internet, nor play video games, on my phone. AND consider that half of the new phone models would not even fit in a pocket, why waste my money???

 

So why in the world should I rush out and spend $1300 for a new phone that has 74 new features that I have no use for at all, plus an instruction set with 17 menu levels, and a shorter battery charge life than my present old phone?

Because it uses more power, but will charge faster with C-PD.

Some things in life make no sense, this EU mandate is one of them.

 

Because it uses more power, but will charge faster with C-PD.

Some things in life make no sense, this EU mandate is one of them.

My phone is always able to recharge overnight, during the time when I normally do not use it. So why rush???
AND, just look at all those folks walking on the street with the phone in heir hand. Because it will not fit in any pocket. I see that as rather pitiful, by almost any standard. Or are they showing off their expensive new toy??? THAT is even more pitiful.

 

It costs money to implement the USB-C spec. Not all devices will charge in most efficient manner with C spec. Also, the C spec is more about negotiating for more power, and is not so much about efficiency.

12v 2A = 24v 1A, but we prefer the lower amps between source and device, that's less waste from resistive elements, BUT, we really don't have a clue as to the efficiency of those two modes between the input of the C on device to the device batt. The C spec only defines how the two ends can negotiate for a mode of power, it does not specifiy the efficiency down to the batt being charged. A "fast" charge does not necessarily mean more efficiency.

And I think we all miss the underlying problem, by which the C spec makes it even worse. We went from USB-A 5v around 5-10w to a C-spec that can provide 240w. Yep, makes sense when we have an energy source problem. The problem is not solved by trying to get +1-3% in efficiency by allowing nearly 25x the power. If you allow 25x the power then it's a given devices will be made to exploit the access to that power. It's the Bill Gates problem, give Windoze 12meg of RAM and a 60watt 386 and Windoze will use 10meg and keep the cpu warm, then make it 32GB RAM and 96watt core cpu and Windoze will use 28GB or RAM and keep that cpu warmer.

Oh I see what you mean, and that bothers me too then. However, they wanted to decrease the electronic waste as far as the physical waste that ends up in landfills. That had become a big problem and apparently they don't care as much about the energy waste or else they assume that follows a different rationale. For example, do you know the efficiency difference at the various levels, like 12v 4 amps or 24v at 2 amps or 48v at 1 amp? You must have that information before you can make a judgement.
There's almost no way they won't use a buck converter in there, and buck converters are pretty good with efficiency. I can't say for sure though what is what because I don't have the numbers in front of me. We have to have the numbers before we can judge the energy efficiency. I have numbers for wireless charging and I am sure that uses more power than a plug in, and it's almost unnecessary now due to the advent of the magnetic connectors which make a more solid connection and don't bother the USB ports at all.

 

Plug the wart into wall, it uses power.
A good design should sense if a load is attached, then switch on the wart. Hard to have no waste if solid state sensing, but perhaps easy to do if the C port had a reed swtch of some kind that could be the switch that turns on the unit when a device is plugged into it. Yes it can be done, it just gets more complex and more costly and less reliable. But maybe consumers can tolerate that?

Maybe the EU should just limit how many battery devices one can own, have to buy what you want through the govt, this way they can control how much "stuff" can be a drain on the source, helping to curb the abuse of power.

It's just getting silly. If the electric/grid folks can't figure out how to make more power and how to transfer it, then they should be replaced, hire SpaceX folks to do it.

Not sure what you mean here. The older wall warts used power all the time, the newer ones use a tiny tiny amount until something tries to draw current from them.

 

My phone is always able to recharge overnight, during the time when I normally do not use it. So why rush???
AND, just look at all those folks walking on the street with the phone in heir hand. Because it will not fit in any pocket. I see that as rather pitiful, by almost any standard. Or are they showing off their expensive new toy??? THAT is even more pitiful.

It's nutty the way the charging power has increased as it also ruins the battery faster.

 

as it also ruins the battery faster.

Yet another profit boost for the manufacturer, distributor, retailer; all at the expense of the end user.

 

I recall someone telling us that was "all rubbish." I seem to detect a different opinion here. Perhaps we are not all fools to suspect something.

 

https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/govt...ing-cables-dont-do-something-just-stand-there

 

It's simple.

You buy a device. It includes a proprietary charger. This charger isn't "free", you're paying for it. When you upgrade this device, the proprietary charger becomes worthless, since it won't work with anything else. It becomes e-waste.

When a USB C connector (not necessarily USB C PD, if the device only requires 5 volts) is used the device can use any USB charger. A traditional 5 volt supply with a USB A connector (using an A – C cable), a charger supplying only 5 volts with a USB C connector, or a USB C PD charger supplying up to 100+ watts. For a 5-volt only device, this requires swapping a USB C connector for a B micro connector and 2 resistors. The cost difference is literally less than 2 cents. But now the device may not include a "free" charger, which isn't free as you're actually paying for it. In all likelihood, most people have spare 5 volt USB chargers already, so why buy a new one with every device?

If the device is a decent cell phone, since 2014, they have featured "Quick Charge", a multi-voltage protocol supported by USB C PD. So the only change required is replacing a micro B connector with a USB C connector.

The reason for this change is simple. To eliminate a mountain of e-waste that's difficult to handle. Some people care about the future of the planet and want to be good stewards of it. Some people are concerned about the future for their grand kids and great grand kids.

This impacts in no way your current devices. Use them until they die. Or you die. Nobody is forcing a change to anything you own now..

Be sure to tell Sarah hello on the next call you make. It brightens her day.




I haven't said anything in this post that hasn't been stated already in this thread. I don't believe I'll alter y'all's conspiracy theories in any way. But maybe somebody will see the light and have some concern about the mess we're leaving for future generations.

 

Wow! Glad:

 

The reason for this change is simple. To eliminate a mountain of e-waste that's difficult to handle. Some people care about the future of the planet and want to be good stewards of it. Some people are concerned about the future for their grand kids and great grand kids.

So why adopt such a complicated standard? 24-pin cables are much more likely to fail than 4-pin cables. Cables with electronics built into them are much more likely to fail than cables without.
[Edit] 4-pin cables are easier to recycle than 24-pin cables
Multi-voltage power supplies are more likely to fail than single-voltage power supplies, and are also likely to be less efficient.
USB-C already has three different type of cable, and that's before people start making "simplified" cables with the rarely-used functions removed. Having three different types of cable is likely to make more waste than a single type, so why not have a standard with a single cable?
We can manage with just one type of mains socket, so why can't we manage with just one type of low-voltage DC socket?

 

If the (Poorly advised) creators had half the wisdom of a bean burrito, they would have stayed with a 5 volt charging input. But the (Expletives Deleted) people in marketing saw a way to assure ongoing obsolescence and so things had to change.
And, as many of us are aware of, only half of all changes are "for the better."

 

Throw your shoes in the looms. You'll show them.

I am so done with this.

 

My phone is always able to recharge overnight, during the time when I normally do not use it. So why rush???
AND, just look at all those folks walking on the street with the phone in heir hand. Because it will not fit in any pocket. I see that as rather pitiful, by almost any standard. Or are they showing off their expensive new toy??? THAT is even more pitiful.

I was being funny.
The idea of saving power comes from having a charger that can negotiate up a higher supply voltage, which means less amps, so less waste. Or, up the voltage and amps so you can get more watts into the device. It's a oxy-moron of sorts idea when we talk about ways to save on energy.

The you see the irony of it all. You need C-PD and higher voltages because the devices have grown into power hungry hogs. The net in that math is MORE POWER with a smidge better efficiency in transfer. Again, such mandates make no sense when you unwrap the package it came in (the problem), etc. The problem is power demand, and these silly mandates do nothing to help solve the power problem. But hey, at least now everyone in EU will own a cable that has USB-C on one end.

Oh I see what you mean, and that bothers me too then. However, they wanted to decrease the electronic waste as far as the physical waste that ends up in landfills. That had become a big problem

The reason for this change is simple. To eliminate a mountain of e-waste that's difficult to handle.

There's a TV/stream show somewhere, about that issue. Everything is made to be throw away, just about everything. The landfills will be just as full with C cable garbage as it was before the mandate.

The makers will make their USB-C crud with cheapest materials and cheapest process they can. Quality vs low quality stuff equates into consumer cost, but it will all fail at some point and will all end up in the garbage.

Using just USB-C will not solve the waste problem. And, most devices supply a cable, hence the math says if I keep all the cables for re-use (a bunch of C cables), this does not mean they don't end up in the trash. It will all goto trash eventually, because when I already have 3 C cables and I get another device that comes with another C cable, 1 of those 4 will be tossed in the trash.

 

Amazingly, one of my chargers has an attached cable. Also, to reduce the power wasted in resistance, rather than re-designing for a higher voltage, I can just increase the wire size a tiny bit. ZERO NRE, no re-qualifying and re-certifying, and not a bit of needing to change the phone.

 

So why in the world should I rush out and spend $1300 for a new phone that has 74 new features that I have no use for at all, plus an instruction set with 17 menu levels, and a shorter battery charge life than my present old phone??? Not to mention a new, user-hostile operating system that has every regular function changed as to how it is implemented??
How in the world would such a new device serve me one speck better?? Consider that I have no desire to watch movies on my phone, nor TV shows, nor search the internet, nor play video games, on my phone. AND consider that half of the new phone models would not even fit in a pocket, why waste my money???

Well, of course you shouldn’t. Why do you even ask?

This question is purely rhetorical, it seems—since it exaggerates many things and doesn’t represent any reality faced by the ordinary consumer of mobile phones.

Curmudgeonly Ranter: “Should I trade my existing device for a mythical device that has only downsides and no benefits?”
Person with No Axe to Grind: ”No.”

Average Puzzled Smartphone User: “So does this mean I have to get a new phone?”
Person with No Axe to Grind: “Oh, no—you can keep using your existing phone, and the new PD chargers will work with it fine, you just need a new cable, or an adapter from Type A to Type C if your old charger is replaced.”

Average Smartphone User: “I really like the 15+ hours of active use my phone gives me, but sometimes if I watch a lot of video I get a lot less and it takes a long time to charge the 4700mAh battery in it.”
Person with no Axe to Grind: “Hey, the new phones can charge with as much as 30W and it will cut your charge time in half. And you can also use the same charger for your tablet and laptop so you don’t have to carry three chargers any more.”.

 

For reference, here's the official text on the European Parliaments's web-site:-
"Regardless of their manufacturer, all new mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones and headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers, e-readers, keyboards, mice, portable navigation systems, earbuds and laptops that are rechargeable via a wired cable, operating with a power delivery of up to 100 Watts, will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C port."

I foresee lots of reliability issues with trying to get 100W through a tiny USB-c port.

 

I foresee lots of reliability issues with trying to get 100W through a tiny USB-c port.

I can understand that if you believe that 100 watts literally have to pass thru the port.

 

Amazingly, one of my chargers has an attached cable. Also, to reduce the power wasted in resistance, rather than re-designing for a higher voltage, I can just increase the wire size a tiny bit. ZERO NRE, no re-qualifying and re-certifying, and not a bit of needing to change the phone.

I foresee lots of reliability issues with trying to get 100W through a tiny USB-c port.

The EU should mandate that charging cables should be 20ga minimum. I can see that Monster speaker cable company developing a nice fat 3lb 3ft cable that is "the best" on the market and saves the most energy.

Now, if people really wanted to help curb power consumption, people should learn how to use built-in power on/off scheduling of their devices, most phones have this. Most can do this, my phone is on a schedule, powers off at 11pm and powers on at 7am. This saves power use and extends life of battery.

You can get 100w through the C port, I think PD has a max current, but if you up the volts you can get more power transfer with the same current. 48v 5amps noted in the EPR PD specification.
Physical C port has some wires that very close to each other, so the C port has max volts and max current rating, thereby limiting max power of that port. We'll be back to same issue when new devices want even more power and the C port simply cannot accomodate the need.

Average Puzzled Smartphone User: “So does this mean I have to get a new phone?”
Person with No Axe to Grind: “Oh, no—you can keep using your existing phone, and the new PD chargers will work with it fine, you just need a new cable, or an adapter from Type A to Type C if your old charger is replaced.”

Does not matter what warts there are, or what cables there are, it ALL ends up in the trash eventually. There's no e-waste problem solving here. If you want to solve e-waste problem, then mandate that the makers provide a 5 or 10yr non-limited warranty on their chargers and cables, then during the warranty return swap the maker can recycle the old crud, etc. And no matter the solution, consumer will be paying more for it.