Thanks for the suggestions and thoughts.

Well so far everything has been reciprocated, so it's not really that, it's more like the basic attributes like for example she is extremely athletic and while i was too in the past with routine weight training, running, marshal arts, etc., i am only somewhat athletic now. That worries me because she is constantly on the go.
Then there are health issues, and although everyone has them she does not maintain her required medication regimen very well. There has been some abnormalities in the recent past though that were not her fault, so i guess all i can do here is see how she works it out in the future.
I also brought up the question of the alcohol where it seemed like it was abuse. But she assured me that it was necessary and actually prescibed by her doctor as a means to get off of a worse medication that is rather dangerous.
I dont like to see her use alcohol in this way, but all i can do is wait and see what happens when she finally gets the right med's again. She has a doctor in NJ too who texted her that he would help her with this, so i should know in a few days.
This started because the hospital in CA she was brought to when i was out there told her to take three pills a day instead of just the prescribed one, and that meant she ran out too soon. They should have given her more pills so she would not run out but they are idiots.

So all in all it is an unusual situation that is hard to judge so all i can do is wait and see what happens.
I'll also have to see if she calms down with the right med's too. So far i am lucky if i got 3 hours sleep per night.

Even so, the relationship we have when together is truly magical now i would never give that up without a fight. I never ever expected it to turn into this and i still cant quite believe it actually happened.

Let me tell you a personal story.

I met this woman after my divorce. Like you, I thought it was magical.

We stayed together for 2 years. Until last week. We would have tons of fun together. I took her to places she had never gone because she was too afraid.

Then just today, someone asked. “Are you in love with her, or the idea of her?”

As time passed on, I learned more about our relationship. She became increasingly afraid and always negative. And distrustful. One day it became too much.

And I told her goodbye.

The situations you describe are of someone who desperately needs help. I was that person before the divorce. But I worked hard... really hard. After many years, I found a helpful therapist. And a doctor who stabilized my meds.

So I got my medications and my emotions under control. It sounds like your friend needs more help. She shouldn’t be doing what you describe. There is no excuse for running out of meds. And with certain issues, alcohol should be avoided entirely.

You can’t fix this.

Your heart and your psyche will suffer. The excitement may carry you for a while... but it will eventually hurt you, like a slow growing cancer.

One can’t love until one loves themselves. I am NOT a therapist, but her behavior indicates that she must learn to love herself.

I’m not telling you what to do. I have no idea what’s right for the two of you. But I can say from experience, be careful and don’t let your health suffer.

Peace!

 

MrAl, you are beginning to scare me a little.

On the meds issue I can relate as I take Ambien. I began wondering why at 2:00 AM I was laying and looking at my ceiling. Problem is, with Ambien you can't get a refill until your supply date has passed. Then also if out of state there can be problems. Here in Ohio the local Rite Aid is where I get my meds. Even though they have Rite Aid in NC when I visit friends if I am going to run out I need to wait for the Rite Aid in NC to contact and check Ohio and NC law. Only once they know it's OK will I get my script and fortunately NC can fill a script written in Ohio. My Ambien substitute is several shots of Jack Daniels or similar.

I hope things work out for you both and yes, a 3,000 mile relationship gets complicated since neither of you can be there for the other when you feel the need and the phone just doesn't quite cut it.

Ron

Hi Ron,

Why scare you?

Yes it is not easy but every time i look at her i feel something so special i can still see the little girl in her from so long ago. It's so magical i'd never find anything like that again no way. We hit it off so good too in NJ as she was doing better it would be hard as hell to lose that now.

But i'll take it little by little.

So what you tell me is that using alcohol as a substitute is somewhat typical. That's very good to know thank you very much for that bit of information. That helps assure me she is not abusing it as she has always told me.

 

Let me tell you a personal story.

I met this woman after my divorce. Like you, I thought it was magical.

We stayed together for 2 years. Until last week. We would have tons of fun together. I took her to places she had never gone because she was too afraid.

Then just today, someone asked. “Are you in love with her, or the idea of her?”

As time passed on, I learned more about our relationship. She became increasingly afraid and always negative. And distrustful. One day it became too much.

And I told her goodbye.

The situations you describe are of someone who desperately needs help. I was that person before the divorce. But I worked hard... really hard. After many years, I found a helpful therapist. And a doctor who stabilized my meds.

So I got my medications and my emotions under control. It sounds like your friend needs more help. She shouldn’t be doing what you describe. There is no excuse for running out of meds. And with certain issues, alcohol should be avoided entirely.

You can’t fix this.

Your heart and your psyche will suffer. The excitement may carry you for a while... but it will eventually hurt you, like a slow growing cancer.

One can’t love until one loves themselves. I am NOT a therapist, but her behavior indicates that she must learn to love herself.

I’m not telling you what to do. I have no idea what’s right for the two of you. But I can say from experience, be careful and don’t let your health suffer.

Peace!

Hi again,

Well thank you for the interesting story.

I am not sure this is quite the same though, maybe a little similar. With her i would just go back to being just friends, which now i know i could handle if i had to. Not as nice, but we started out as friends and i would accept going back to that although i did not think i could do that before now. She means enough to me that i give her the floor with her happiness that has to come before mine and there is no way i could live with myself any other way. Her friend of 20 years is not like that, he is very possessive of her even though they are just friends because he is afraid he will loose her to the world, and that is very sad because he lets opportunities pass by her that could really help her and i could never do that.

In your case, i could only think that maybe you did not love her enough to give her the floor. If you love them enough you want the best for them just like you would with your own child. You'd never give up your kid because you'd love them more than anything. Anything you could do for them that is not dangerous or illegal or contributing to their possible addiction you'd want to do. That's just the way it is. Remember i have a very long history with her and her family spanning several decades. That's a big part of it for me. Other members of her family were also important to me as i was like part of the family.
For example, did you ever visit her mother's grave site? If someone is important enough to you that's one of the things you might do. Of course i knew her too so that might be a different story perhaps yes. Her mother was a charmer and great person to know also.

I guess each case is different in big or small ways but it is good to hear about other stories like this. It helps to compare notes.

Hey, is this thread like group therapy? ha ha ha Maybe that's good too

 

So what you tell me is that using alcohol as a substitute is somewhat typical. That's very good to know thank you very much for that bit of information. That helps assure me she is not abusing it as she has always told me.

This worries me a little. Although mixing alcohol while taking meds may be “typical”, being typical does not mean that is a good behavior.

Take a look at this article. The use of alcohol and psychiatric medicines is a dangerous practice.

One last point. Telling those close to you that you’re not abusing alcohol may be taken as a sign that such abuse is indeed occurring. It’s what all alcoholics do. Don’t be an enabler.

Be careful! Be good!

 

This worries me a little. Although mixing alcohol while taking meds may be “typical”, being typical does not mean that is a good behavior.

Take a look at this article. The use of alcohol and psychiatric medicines is a dangerous practice.

One last point. Telling those close to you that you’re not abusing alcohol may be taken as a sign that such abuse is indeed occurring. It’s what all alcoholics do. Don’t be an enabler.

Be careful! Be good!

Hi,

I was of the same opinion too before i learned that this is an actual practice that is more common than i would have ever thought. We are taught many things, but they are often the rule of thumb not the actual formula. In other words, this is on a very case by case basis where each and every person has to be invidually addressed as to their needs in real time.

I would have never believed it either, but since the doctor actually prescribed beer for her on one occasion, i cant argue with that.
How dangerous is it? It depends on the individual. Even Xanax is dangerous and people have died from that alone. That scares me more than the alcohol.

Yes i hate it, i really do, and it can not go on long term. It hurts her i know that in the long run if it goes on for too long, but the precription is short term only. Plus now just last night i was informed she got her required medicine so everything should go smoother now with no need for the alkie anymore, or at least for now.

The symptom of withdrawal is the shakes. Extreme shakes, and she hates that feeling. It does help to hug her tightly though and that does not require any alcohol. It also helps to bring us closer together which is a blessing in a way.

So now i can see what happens when she has her medicine. if she goes quickly back to alcohol, then i might start to suspect some abuse. I dont think that will happen or at least hope not, and she is smart enough to know what problems that can cause, and she hates alcoholics for the most part and also illegal drug users. So i have reason to hope all will go well at least in this one case.

 

Back up a little here. What I agreed with, is that in the absence of meds like a sleeping med, using Ambien as an example, a few shots will relax a person and hopefully promote falling asleep. Obviously taking a few Oxycontin with a few shots as chasers is not a good idea. The same is true for Xanax.

Ron

 

There is a growing movement of people learning to live without medications by instead getting a nutrition-dense diet. For instance here's a very good one: https://www.drfuhrman.com/get-started/eat-to-live-blog/90/dr-fuhrmans-nutritarian-pyramid

I know I'd be skeptical of such a thing hearing it for the first time, but I've become a believer over the last couple years. I highly recommend watching his lectures and doing a little research on the topic. It could truly be life-changing for both of you, for anyone.

There is very little wrong with humans that cannot be made better with diet. There are very few medicines that can do more than a good diet. Big pharma can't make any money off that fact, so you don't hear it promoted much. Drug makers like to test against placebo. If they tested against a good diet, they'd never get anything approved.

 

Diet based treatment takes a long time to develop any effect. The simplicity of a pharmaceutical solution will continue to make it a preferred solution.

Not all psychological conditions require long term pharmacological treatment. If someone is suicidal, a short term course of anti-anxiety medicine creates the necessary time for a long term solution to be practical.

And there are still some conditions for which treatment by diet will not work.

And there are conditions for which a diet based solutions have been touted. But after long term studies have been completed, those solutions have been shown to be ineffective.

So, I disagree with your statement that there are few conditions that cannot be treated with a good diet. And I disagree that there are few medicines that do better than a diet based solution.

I don’t understand why you feel that way. Because in my universe, your statements do not make sense.

People are entitled to their opinion. But, one must consider that some opinions may be harmful to others. In that case, I felt compelled to rebut.

 

There is a growing movement of people learning to live without medications by instead getting a nutrition-dense diet. For instance here's a very good one: https://www.drfuhrman.com/get-started/eat-to-live-blog/90/dr-fuhrmans-nutritarian-pyramid

I know I'd be skeptical of such a thing hearing it for the first time, but I've become a believer over the last couple years. I highly recommend watching his lectures and doing a little research on the topic. It could truly be life-changing for both of you, for anyone.

There is very little wrong with humans that cannot be made better with diet. There are very few medicines that can do more than a good diet. Big pharma can't make any money off that fact, so you don't hear it promoted much. Drug makers like to test against placebo. If they tested against a good diet, they'd never get anything approved.

It looks like you have jumped the gun on experimenting with magic muchrooms (https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomang...oms-and-other-psychedelic-drugs/#7f2d97c61002 ).

Aside from mood altering drugs (e.g., Ambien), it is impossible to name dietary cures for somatic and infectious diseases. That was tried for many years for diabetes before the discovery of insulin. The failures were disturbing. Go for it, if you wish, but I don't think our insurance or tax dollars should pay for your foolishness..

 

Aside from mood altering drugs (e.g., Ambien), it is impossible to name dietary cures for somatic and infectious diseases.

I never knew Ambien was a mood altering drug. I just take a 10 mg Ambien about 30 - 60 min before I plan to fall asleep and I sleep. I have herd of side effects like sleep walking but about all I ever do is fall asleep and that's about it. I never noticed anything as to my mood or mood swings but then too I am generally in a good mood.

I will confess to having used Chantix to stop smoking which after failed attempts actually worked. My only side effect with that drug was the vivid dreams but they were actually really nice dreams so not like nightmares or anything.

Ron

 

And there are still some conditions for which treatment by diet will not work.

Name one.

And there are conditions for which a diet based solutions have been touted. But after long term studies have been completed, those solutions have been shown to be ineffective.

Again, name one. The leading killers in the developed world are heart disease and cancer. Both are lifestyle diseases.

I don’t understand why you feel that way.

I was skeptical at first as well but over time have come to see the light. I've done a ton of reading on the issue and listened to many experts.

Per John Hopkins, medicine is the third leading cause of death in this country. That's just the error rate. When you factor in deaths from medical intervention that don't rise to the level of error, it goes even higher. Your skepticism should be redirected towards anyone that wants to put dangerous chemicals into your body.

 

1. Aphasia cannot be treated by diet
2. Bipolar was thought to be able to be successfully treated by diet, but recent studies have proved those claims flawed.

I agree that diet plays a role in cancer or heart disease. But there are many other conditions that cannot. I agree that there are many studies that claim a dietary solution. But in reality there is little effect.

In researching my answer, I found a reference to diet for aphasia. But careful reading, one notices the claims are qualified by “may” or “should”. Similar claims are being made for bipolar. But careful reading again finds that the claims are said to “ameliorate”, not treat.

You can’t believe everything on the Internet.

 

1. Aphasia cannot be treated by diet
2. Bipolar was thought to be able to be successfully treated by diet, but recent studies have proved those claims flawed.

I'll concede the point to avoid taking the thread too far off topic.

I'm sure you agree with the point that good habits (S.E.E sleep, eat, exercise) can have a profound effect on health.

 

I'm sure you agree with the point that good habits (S.E.E sleep, eat exercise) can have a profound effect on health.

...and also some basic dietary habits, such as sugar intake and fiber, among others.

I too, am skeptical about exaggerated health related dietary claims. But it's also important to keep an open mind. That's why I'm following this conversation with great interest.

 

I never knew Ambien was a mood altering drug. I just take a 10 mg Ambien about 30 - 60 min before I plan to fall asleep and I sleep. I have herd of side effects like sleep walking but about all I ever do is fall asleep and that's about it. I never noticed anything as to my mood or mood swings but then too I am generally in a good mood.

I will confess to having used Chantix to stop smoking which after failed attempts actually worked. My only side effect with that drug was the vivid dreams but they were actually really nice dreams so not like nightmares or anything.

Ron

Here is an official description by the US: (attached)

I added some highlights. Ambien is classed as a sedative-hypnotic. It slows brain activity. Its mode of action is to up-regulate (i.e., an agonist) the gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) receptors in the brain. Withdrawal effects include mood changes. I think those effects can be called "mood" in a lay sense.

One should also note that FDA approval is based on this indication ( http://products.sanofi.us/ambien/ambien.pdf ):

Zolpidem is a GABA A receptor positive modulator presumed to exert its therapeutic effects in the short-term treatment of insomnia through binding to the benzodiazepine site of α1 subunit containing GABA A receptors, increasing the frequency of chloride channel opening resulting in the inhibition of neuronal excitation)

"Short-term" does not mean it's a maintenance drug. Of course, the maximum short-term period is not defined.

Also, the FDA recently required a "boxed warning" (its highest level of warning) about complex sleep behaviors (e.g., sleep walking) (https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pre...cidents-related-certain-prescription-insomnia ).

 

Thanks for sharing that as I was clueless. Something to discuss with my doctor next visit.

Ron

 

Back up a little here. What I agreed with, is that in the absence of meds like a sleeping med, using Ambien as an example, a few shots will relax a person and hopefully promote falling asleep. Obviously taking a few Oxycontin with a few shots as chasers is not a good idea. The same is true for Xanax.

Ron

My wife has M.S. and Hight blood pressure. She's been using Xanax for 20+ years, she said she couldn't sleep using Ambien out of fear she would do something irregular at night. Her old Boss was found cooking a full on meal in the middle of the night.

kv

 

My wife has M.S. and Hight blood pressure. She's been using Xanax for 20+ years, she said she couldn't sleep using Ambien out of fear she would do something irregular at night. Her old Boss was found cooking a full on meal in the middle of the night.

kv

So you are saying it also gives you the munchies?

 

Whoa!

Anyone else think that this thread has gone horribly off-topic?

You're right, DJ ... I've deleted my post. My attempt at humor was probably inappropriate, especially considering the subject being discussed.

 

This is @MrAl Thread, if we get terribly of Topic he will let us know. I think it's good to discuss things like drugs or even Alcohol, many people are prescribed stuff that could easily cause serious harm. I'm glad we went down that road.

kv