Thoughts about uC shortage

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
32,874
https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/sk4qzfoekg
Intel cuts free coffee, braces for next layoff wave

Inhuman conditions.
This is something that always puzzled me. Not so much about companies either offering or not offering all kinds of amenities in the work place, but the attitude of entitlement that doing so seems to inevitably instill.

Personally, I prefer as few workplace amenities as possible -- give me the money instead and let me decide how I want to spend, save, or invest the fruits of my labors. People that think that they aren't getting paid less because of all the freebies at work are deluding themselves (though there is certainly not a one-for-one trade, particularly given various tax considerations involved).

My first full-time gig after college had no amenities at all. You also got a grand total of ten days of combined VHS (vacation, holiday, sick) leave a year. The hourly rate wasn't the best, either. But the company paid 100% of your health insurance (and very good health insurance) and contributed 15% of your gross pay into your retirement account each year without you putting in a dime (and that went to 25%, profits allowing, when the law changed to allow higher employer contributions). When we went to HSA accounts, the company also contributed the max annual amount into the HSA accounts without the employee throwing in a dime. This was in line with the company's objective of maximizing pre-tax benefits. They also paid 100% of tuition for anyone taking courses (as long as a reasonable case could be made that the education would benefit the company, either directly or indirectly).

After some companies in the area started adding free breakfasts and lunches every day and gym memberships and game rooms and other things, we discussed it at a company meeting and the broad consensus was that it would be nice for the company to provide free drinks (coffee, tea, and soda), but that was the extent of what we were interested in. It didn't take a genius to know that all of that other stuff would cut into the profits and be reflected in lower contributions to our retirement accounts at the end of the year. No thank you.

We had virtually no turnover in the fourteen years I worked there, and I only left because the opportunity to pursue a life-long dream came along.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
https://www.12news.com/article/mone...izona/75-e5125a7b-f856-4c68-8b76-2066d14bc8a3
Microchip Technology plans to shut down East Valley facility within next year
The process technologies run at the Tempe facility, referred to as Fab 2, are also run at Microchip's Oregon and Colorado facilities, which both have space for expansion.

"We expect to be able to shut down Fab 2 in the September 2025 quarter at which time we expect that it will generate annual cash savings of approximately $90 million," Microchip CEO Steve Sanghi said in a statement on Monday.
...
The company said the closure should help the company moderate its inventory levels beginning in the fourth quarter and will affect around 500 employees.
 
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nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
https://semiengineering.com/auto-chip-aging-accelerates-in-hot-climates/
Auto Chip Aging Accelerates In Hot Climates
Many of the most advanced electronics used in vehicles today are ASIL D-compliant, expected to function up to 125° C. But during extended heat waves, those chips don’t last as long as expected. This is evident in new studies conducted in Phoenix, Arizona, which recorded 64 days with daytime temperatures above 110° F (43.3° C), and 5 days with peak highs above 115° F (46.1° C). [1] At those temperatures, the cabin in dark vehicles with dark upholstery can approach 200° F (93° C), which is just shy of the boiling point for water.
 
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meth

Joined May 21, 2016
304
I work in the automotive manufacturing industry and I am directly affected right now - so I understand the problem better than the most.
On the other hand I have friends in IT companies - and at work they have arguments about.... which PS5 games should the company buy them for the playroom they have in their offices!
Do you see the problem?
When there is money, or (what would Borat say, in my country we say), when there is honey, we even rub our bu**hole with it... and when the honey runs out - panic mode..
The western world has become too spoiled and forget what manufacturing and industry is. Engineers are spoiled, designers are spoiled, there is ridiculous amounts of unnecessary spendings, just because we COULD. While someone on the other end of the world worked their asses off and now they become more competitive than us in the market.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
27,563
I have not followed this thread for quite a while, but certainly what is glaringly obvious is that many have been compensated far beyond their contribution's values. Evidently the share prices of some companies have been bid up far above the actual values, and the result has been compensation inflation.
Rapid growth in companies is often a lot like rapid growth in a cancer, with the unfortunate results being a bit similar. In the past I have had to deal with the unqualified "help" that were hired to assist me.
Certainly shareholders and the board of directors were having a "money rush" as business grew, but not all new hires, just like all engineers, do not have the same skill sets. That is at least part of what powers the BOOM and BUST CYCLE. and amazingly enough, that sort of cycle can lead to parts shortages. Inadequate designs often lead to inadequate production yields. THAT is the bad news.
 

Ya’akov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
10,240
I work in the automotive manufacturing industry and I am directly affected right now - so I understand the problem better than the most.
On the other hand I have friends in IT companies - and at work they have arguments about.... which PS5 games should the company buy them for the playroom they have in their offices!
Do you see the problem?
When there is money, or (what would Borat say, in my country we say), when there is honey, we even rub our bu**hole with it... and when the honey runs out - panic mode..
The western world has become too spoiled and forget what manufacturing and industry is. Engineers are spoiled, designers are spoiled, there is ridiculous amounts of unnecessary spendings, just because we COULD. While someone on the other end of the world worked their asses off and now they become more competitive than us in the market.
You do realize that IT is not the same as Semiconductors, right?
 

meth

Joined May 21, 2016
304
Of course they arent the same.
I was just pointing out what was the problem in the other industries, and I expect the same to happen there.
The first moment 5 software "testers" (by testers I mean waiters that took 4 months course in programming and now because they earn x2 of the average salary think they are invincible), can be replaced by one guy backed up by some AI... bye bye testers.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
27,563
Certainly the software industry suffers greatly because of the microsoft business plan of delivering a product that needs constant repairs and patches. The fact that selling junk products will produce much greater profit than selling fully functional products puts all of the honest businesses at a terrible disadvantage.
Aggressive marketing certainly costs a lot less than adequate quality.
And it is unclear to me what the full extent of artificial intelligence will ultimately be. BUT I do not expect it to be any improvement in our quality of life.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
Of course they arent the same.
I was just pointing out what was the problem in the other industries, and I expect the same to happen there.
The first moment 5 software "testers" (by testers I mean waiters that took 4 months course in programming and now because they earn x2 of the average salary think they are invincible), can be replaced by one guy backed up by some AI... bye bye testers.
You are projecting your personal biases into something you seem to actually know little about. These types of semi companies have not been wasting money. They have made investments in production equipment and people at sometimes great costs for a expected demand of devices that's very soft in reality. It's the normal semiconductors roller coaster with a rocket that's happening globally even in China. It's IMO only going to get worse for a while as more slow production to reduce inventory levels.

If you need future devices, now would be a good time to stock up.
 

meth

Joined May 21, 2016
304
Sorry if I strayed away from the subject, it is about shortage of IC's but the first post on this page is a whole article about free coffee being cut off... that triggered me a bit :))

From my sharing experience with people more familiar with semiconductor industry... shortage was inevitable to happen, the uC demand is insanely exponentialy grown last 10 years... since every little small thing is now smart and has some controller inside. I mean seriously, it began with smartphones smart TV's, smart AC's .. which is kinda reasonable... but now you have smart juicers (that connect with an app to tell you how much juice you drink today), smart espresso machines, smart LED lamps, smart dispensers for pet food...
It is subjective opinion but these are completely redundant applications that do not need to be with uC.
From the field I am familiar with.. car industry.. right now in a car there are more than 100 microcontrollers. 20 years ago, how much were there, 10?

So if there is such shortage of uC, globally they should be somehow limited to certain applications, because uC is essential to today's living but there is no infinite resource for them, which would also stabilize the price.
uC for phone.. okay.. you need that.. but uC for a smart umbrella (YES, this exists!), well.. we cant afford that right now.

So all above, was enough to suffocate the production, recent global geopolitical events just spilled the glass that was already full.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
Sorry if I strayed away from the subject, it is about shortage of IC's but the first post on this page is a whole article about free coffee being cut off... that triggered me a bit :))

From my sharing experience with people more familiar with semiconductor industry... shortage was inevitable to happen, the uC demand is insanely exponentialy grown last 10 years... since every little small thing is now smart and has some controller inside. I mean seriously, it began with smartphones smart TV's, smart AC's .. which is kinda reasonable... but now you have smart juicers (that connect with an app to tell you how much juice you drink today), smart espresso machines, smart LED lamps, smart dispensers for pet food...
It is subjective opinion but these are completely redundant applications that do not need to be with uC.
From the field I am familiar with.. car industry.. right now in a car there are more than 100 microcontrollers. 20 years ago, how much were there, 10?

So if there is such shortage of uC, globally they should be somehow limited to certain applications, because uC is essential to today's living but there is no infinite resource for them, which would also stabilize the price.
uC for phone.. okay.. you need that.. but uC for a smart umbrella (YES, this exists!), well.. we cant afford that right now.

So all above, was enough to suffocate the production, recent global geopolitical events just spilled the glass that was already full.
Today there is a glut of uC (far more that is needed for even a smart umbrella). Those fancy cars with 100 microcontrollers are sitting on dealers showrooms instead of being sold and creating more demand for the next 100 microcontrollers.

Repost from three years ago.
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/thoughts-about-uc-shortage.187377/post-1739684

The industry was warning of shortages years ago in the second tier of semi manufacturing. The roller-coaster of semiconductor biz boom and bust has not stopped. The massive investment today is already signaling a coming bust cycle.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/global-chip-shortage-charts#toggle-gdpr
The semiconductor industry has always been cyclical, undergoing gluts and shortages as the market for personal computers, and then home electronics and smartphones, followed the ebb and flow of the global economy. But even before the COVID-19 pandemic struck in early 2020, there were signs that the “market was very, very tight,” says Russell Harrison, director of government relations at IEEE-USA. Semiconductor factories (a.k.a. fabrication facilities, or fabs) typically run at about 80 percent of their rated capacity, allowing time for maintenance, upgrades, and staffing variations. As early as the summer of 2019, the industry-wide utilization level was nearing 90 percent. That is a reflection, says Calhoun, of a growing appetite for connected home appliances and increasingly sophisticated automated driving features and digital connectivity in cars. Utilization hasn’t fallen below 90 percent since the summer of 2020, according to the SIA.
 
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