Saw an experiment done in Greenland (I think it was). They took a sheet of highly reflective white plastic, somewhere around the size of half a football field and placed it over a snow field. A few days later they returned, not sure how many days, they removed the cover and found the snow under the reflective sheet sat a good number of inches above the surrounding snow. Clearly the cover prevented sunlight from melting the snow. The sheet was pure white whereas the snow was dusty and dirty, and therefore absorbed more energy from the sun. Saw that on PBS I believe.

Hi,

Oh yes the dirty snow melts faster because part of it is darker. Even a sandy color will help over pure white.

 

So is that before or after the federally-mandated switch to the metric system?

LOL

"Green New Deal" as it is called.
Here's a link with some info, although there are mucho sites talking about this...
https://www.instituteforenergyresea...MIzrG-7czc3wIVWcDICh31mALsEAAYASAAEgJ1NPD_BwE

 

Something I mentioned in the beginning of this thread and mention in just about every thread dealing with renewable energy is you can have just about anything you want as long as you are willing to pay for it. Solar panels have come down in cost and hopefully will continue to drop. The bottom line comes down to what we pay per kilowatt hour.

Hawaii having no natural resources has the highest cost in the US. Germany had made large steps towards renewable energy sources and has the highest cost of electricity in Europe. Here in the US those states making a big push for renewable energy seem to reflect their efforts in the cost of electricity. The best deal going is likely hydro-electric but every state is not blessed with rivers which are capable of supporting hydro-electric. So again, we can have whatever we want as long as we are willing to foot the bill.

Ron

Hi,

Yeah i agree if you have a lot of cash you can fly to Mars

The convert to all fossil fuels is called the "Green New Deal" and everyone in the USA could become subject to that if it gets through.

Here's a link with some info, although there are lots of sites talking about this...
https://www.instituteforenergyresea...MIzrG-7czc3wIVWcDICh31mALsEAAYASAAEgJ1NPD_BwE

I guess i like solar power, but i would want 'regular' power on hand as a backup.

 

Hi,

Oh yes the dirty snow melts faster because part of it is darker. Even a sandy color will help over pure white.

I don't know how "clearly" the explanation is correct. Their sheet also prevented air flow over the snow thus reducing evaporation/sublimation. How much of a factor was this? What, if anything, did they do to control for that?

 

Fusion power. Now THAT's something worth looking at.

 

Fusion power. Now THAT's something worth looking at.

And the good news? It's only ten years away!

 

I guess i like solar power, but i would want 'regular' power on hand as a backup.

Amen.

Ron

 

And the good news? It's only ten years away!

Hi,

Yeah, and then next year it is ten years away, then the year after that it is ten years away, then the year after that it is ten years away, etc., etc.
So the good news is that it is always ten years away

 

I don't know how "clearly" the explanation is correct. Their sheet also prevented air flow over the snow thus reducing evaporation/sublimation. How much of a factor was this? What, if anything, did they do to control for that?

Hi,

Well we know for sure that a darker color absorbs more energy from the sun and that gets converted into heat, and that's all i need to know.

[LATER]
Yes air flow could cool the black surface and make it seem cooler. Good insight there. That would make them both seem the same.

 

they removed the cover and found the snow under the reflective sheet sat a good number of inches above the surrounding snow. Clearly the cover prevented sunlight from melting the snow.

Perhaps we should be painting the polar ice caps white then, to counter the effects of global warming .

 

Perhaps we should be painting the polar ice caps white then, to counter the effects of global warming .

I thought they were white by design? However, that sounds like a good and viable idea.

Living here in Cleveland, Ohio I am on the shores of Lake Erie. Frequently we get dumped on with what is known as Lake Effect Snow. During the harsh winter months the lake is closed to commercial shipping so it really has no commercial value. I figure if every winter we just drain the lake or maybe just let all the water run over Niagara Falls we can eliminate lake effect snow. Then in the Spring we just let the lake refill itself.

I am also considering painting my roof black during the winters and white during the summers. I may even be able to find a government program to pay the cost. I see draining the lake and painting my roof by season as doing for technology today what should have been done yesterday.

Ron

 

Perhaps we should be painting the polar ice caps white

Don't get smart. Stay the way you are.

 

Don't get smart. Stay the way you are.

Hi,

Now now then, play nice now

Stranger things have actually been proposed such as releasing chemicals into the atmosphere to help reflect some of the sunlight. I would hate to see that happen.

 

play nice

All meant in jest.

releasing chemicals into the atmosphere

Heard that one too some time ago. Just what we need - more particulate.

Glitter in the atmosphere. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Satellites that collect suns energy and transmits it to earth in the form of microwaves. Now THERE's a hot idea for sure. Just let one of those death ray satellites be turned on a public school. Good story line for another James Bond movie though.

 

All meant in jest.
Heard that one too some time ago. Just what we need - more particulate.

Glitter in the atmosphere. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Satellites that collect suns energy and transmits it to earth in the form of microwaves. Now THERE's a hot idea for sure. Just let one of those death ray satellites be turned on a public school. Good story line for another James Bond movie though.

Hi,

Yeah i know

That reminds me of an episode of Futurama where one of the professors invented a GIANT mirror to reflect the sun away from the earth, but then the control system went bad and the mirror tilted and fried a hot swath across the surface of the globe.

 

Hi,

Yeah i know

That reminds me of an episode of Futurama where one of the professors invented a GIANT mirror to reflect the sun away from the earth, but then the control system went bad and the mirror tilted and fried a hot swath across the surface of the globe.

I believe Mr. Burns placed a giant shade over Springfield to encourage consumption of electricity from his nuclear plant.

 

Hi,

Oh yes the dirty snow melts faster because part of it is darker. Even a sandy color will help over pure white.

Not everything that you see on TV is factual reporting. AND, in addition, not everything that you read on the internet is correct. In fact, some of the stuff posted on the internet is just plain UNTRUE!!!
(the part that I wanted to quote did not appear. OOPS!)

 

I believe Mr. Burns placed a giant shade over Springfield to encourage consumption of electricity from his nuclear plant.

Hi,

Oh that must have been the Simpsons? Funny i dont watch that as much as the other ones for some reason, maybe it's the time slots.
Family Guy went to Springfield one episode though that was a whole hour long.

Giant shade, yeah that would take some doing in real life

 

Not everything that you see on TV is factual reporting. AND, in addition, not everything that you read on the internet is correct. In fact, some of the stuff posted on the internet is just plain UNTRUE!!!
(the part that I wanted to quote did not appear. OOPS!)

Hi,

Yeah so called "Fake News". Whatever happened to the news outlets. Now nobody believes anybody about anything anymore.

When i find something on the internet i try to find 2 other references to help back it up.

 

"Fake News" ? ? ? Whatever happened to good old fashioned logic and good sense?

I saw a video where an airplane lost a wing during stunt flying and the pilot managed to safely land the plane. Yes - that's absolute bogus bologna. But thinking back to when I was a boy in school, science class, we took two shoe boxes. Painted one black and one white then put two identical thermometers, one in each, and placed them out in the sun. While I don't remember the temperatures or the differences, the lesson was that light colors reflect sunlight and energy whereas black absorbs it.

I have (somewhere) one of those glass bulb radiometers that have four vanes. On one side of the vane is a reflective surface and on the back side of that same vane is a flat black mat surface. When sunlight energy strikes it the vane spins. The science behind it is that the reflective surface bounces light away whereas the black side absorbs it. That energy MUST go somewhere. It is converted into mechanical energy. It spins. The greater the amount of energy striking it the faster it spins. Science. Logic. Good sense and reasoning.

https://www.sciplus.com/solar-power...MImdqrtOng3wIV_f_jBx3lYACzEAYYBiABEgJ_2_D_BwE

As to whether white roofs heat the atmosphere more than black - I lean on the things I learned in science classes all those years I attended school. Sunlight reflected back out to space - it goes somewhere. That which is absorbed MUST be converted into something else, some other form of energy. In this case, heat. I learned that LONG before we had an internet to look up factually non-factual truths. And we all remember (most of us anyway) what Giuliani said: Truth isn't truth.