So a man has to work for someone to have any protection. Gee, that sounds like what happened to these guys! They tried working for themselves (hence no contract) and were pretty well shafted.

I think my original statement stands. I'm not too fond of our current corporate state mode myself. Corporations make lousy rulers.

 

Unfortunately, no one has figured out how to separate money from that that equation. If you do figure out how to do that, don't tell anyone. You will be silenced permanently, if you do.

John

Actually, money has little to do with the outcome of patent disputes. It is, however, strongly correlated with the income of lawyers which argue the case. Generally, whoever has the best lawyers wins, and the best lawyers cost the most.

I've basically signed away anything I create/invent to my employer. In return, I get a steady paycheck during the time I choose to stay employed there. If I post a whiz bang circuit solution here, it is owned by a big company, which kind of sucks.

 

No insult intended, I have a grandson about to graduate high school. It's just that somewhere along the road of American history it became a negative to be successful, which to me, is totally un-American. Edison came from grass roots and those that lived during his productive years loved the man. Do you realize that prior to Thomas Edison, an emergency appendectomy after sunset meant almost certain death? I have absolutely no problem with T.E. dying a very rich man. He lived the American dream and fulfilled it 10,000 times over. Hey, Tommy wasn't an idiot. He knew damn well that AC power was going knock DC (as a distributed power source) out of the box. He also knew that he, and all his investors had all their money in his DC basket.

There's much more I could say about the genius that Thomas Edison was, but the generation that lived it with him could say it better than I ever could.

I didn't mean to bash Edison here, he DID invent the light bulb, and I agree he was an American icon and a great man. Theres really no reason to choose between him and Tesla, both were great in different ways. But I still like Tesla. He wasn't about the money. Plus, his name is cooler

 

So a man has to work for someone to have any protection. Gee, that sounds like what happened to these guys! They tried working for themselves (hence no contract) and were pretty well shafted.

Basically, yes, true.

The areas where new patents are useful aren't really in the realm of a home lab, or even a small R&D lab anymore.

 

Actually, money has little to do with the outcome of patent disputes. It is, however, strongly correlated with the income of lawyers which argue the case. Generally, whoever has the best lawyers wins, and the best lawyers cost the most.

I've basically signed away anything I create/invent to my employer. In return, I get a steady paycheck during the time I choose to stay employed there. If I post a whiz bang circuit solution here, it is owned by a big company, which kind of sucks.

The only solution I see to get the credit one deserves it to create a corporation, make it very powerful, make sure you have sole ownership, and THEN release and patent your ideas.

Which sucks.

 

Bill, you're absolutely correct. When you posted 1954 I thought you were wrong. I was so sure that he did a triple gainer out of a skyscraper in the early 60s, so I researched it. He jumped alright, but not when I thought.

 

Do you realize that prior to Thomas Edison, an emergency appendectomy after sunset meant almost certain death?

While that may be true, it was not the absence of the electric light that led to so many deaths. Here is an interesting history of mortality from appendectomy: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1353017/?page=1

It is more a coincidence that the electric light bulb, safer anesthesia, surgical antisepsis, and improved procedures all arrived at about the same time. In terms of cause and effect, the light bulb was certainly a distant fourth in reducing mortality, if at all.

This is not to diminish Edison's contributions. Let's just not give him the credit due to others .

John

 

[IRRELEVANT]
Fun Fact:
In WWII there were only 3 emergency appendectomys performed on submarines, only one of which was photographed. It took place on the officers mess table using engine ether as an anesthetic, kitchen utensils, and standard thread. The victim survived, even after being thrown out of his bunk 3 times by depth charges.

The submarine was the USS Silversides, and I have played cards at that table and slept in the sub

The only person killed on the sub was killed in an incident with a fishing boat, and the youngest person to serve on it was 15.

That is all.
[/IRRELEVANT]

 

Snip:But I still like Tesla. Plus, his name is cooler

It's hard to argue with that, it has a mystical quality to it.

Just for the record you've made it quite clear that you're not a mindless Green Zombie stumbling blindly through life parroting eco-babble. Fact is, you appear to be everything I'd like to see in our youth today but unfortunately see very little of... Want to be friends!?

 

It's hard to argue with that, it has a mystical quality to it.

Just for the record you've made it quite clear that you're not a mindless Green Zombie stumbling blindly through life parroting eco-babble. Fact is, you appear to be everything I'd like to see in our youth today but unfortunately see very little of... Want to be friends!?

Sure, and also for the record, I'm not very impressed with the majority of my generation either...
Far too many that would rather play MMO's or Xbox in all their free time rather than do something educational

nothing against xbox, I own one and play it when Ive had too much of this in a short timespan, but most of the time I'd like to be learning about circuits and building something

 

While that may be true, it was not the absence of the electric light that led to so many deaths.

I just retired (well I think I'm retired) as an independent Bio-Med Associate. Got any idea what kind of lighting you'll find in the O.R. and why? The cost of the lighting in an O.R. would stop your heart. Edison's incandescent light certainly did have a profound impact on the environment of the O.R. and surgery in general. Nighttime surgeries were done only under emergency conditions and "Nurse hold that oil lamp over here" was not a situation that you wanted to be in. Of course, this does not diminish the other advancements you mentioned
I've lived through 5 major hurricanes and I know first hand what oil and other alternative lighting is like when entombed in a boarded up house.

 

Got any idea what kind of lighting you'll find in the O.R. and why?

I suspect LED's and quartz halogen lamps are used extensively. Neither was invented by Edison. Most people give credit for the halogen bulb to E. A. Scribner (US Patent 254780, March 7, 1882). That patent was assigned to the US Electric Light Company, which was a competitor of Edison.

See: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/0254780.pdf
For more history, see Wikipedia and other sources.

The cost of the lighting in an O.R. would stop your heart.

I don't think Edison invented the defibrillator either.

Edison's incandescent light certainly did have a profound impact on the environment of the O.R. and surgery in general. Nighttime surgeries were done only under emergency conditions and "Nurse hold that oil lamp over here" was not a situation that you wanted to be in.

There have been a lot of advances in the past 200 years. Your statement asserting that Edison's version of the light bulb was directly responsible for reducing mortality from emergency appendectomies performed in the evening as compared with emergency appendectomies performed during daylight hours is what I challenged.*

Can you provide any data to support that assertion?

John

*Emergency procedures generally have greater morbidity and mortality than non-emergency procedures even today. Infection is still the main culprit. Although it might seem redundant to refer to emergency appendectomies as a separate class (aren't they all emergencies?), the history of routine appendectomies is itself a good story. It used to be common practice to do an "incidental" appendectomy anytime the abdomen was entered to avoid greater difficulties should the patient later develop an acute appendicitis. That practice has diminished in light of the higher infection rates associated with it.

 

Can you provide any data to support that assertion?

John, appendectomies was used as an arbitrary debate vehicle used to bring focus on the issue of night versus day as it pertains to human activities. Perhaps night time surgeries would have been more apropos. I don't think I need to do research to support my assumption that prior to Edison's electric light night was a very different world and night activities, that we now take for granted, was not commonplace. Anytime a surgeon cuts into a human body there's going to be risks, including the ones you mentioned. However, night surgery, by gas, oil or candle light, certainly did not improve your odds of a successful operation. To argue this point would seem frivolous and done just for the sake of argument itself.

Are you pulling my chain?

Chris

 

John, appendectomies was used as an arbitrary debate vehicle used to bring focus on the issue of night versus day as it pertains to human activities. Perhaps night time surgeries would have been more apropos.

What you said was:

Do you realize that prior to Thomas Edison, an emergency appendectomy after sunset meant almost certain death?

The clear intent of your argument was to assert that Edison's light bulb greatly reduced mortality from surgery done at night. That vehicle doesn't have wheels.

No one denies the importance of Edison's contributions. But, his version of the light bulb was not responsible for the reduction in surgical death rates that happened during the latter part of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

And yes, I think people need to accept when their assertions, even in off topic, are wrong. Establishing the correct year of Armstrong's suicide, as was done above, pales in significance to the lives that were saved by modern anesthesia and antisepsis.

John

 

OK John, I'm not going to beat this to death with semantics. I concede to defeat.

Chris

 

One might recall that gas anesthesia + open flame = explosion. All medical gade lamps and electronics are rated for no sparks. This has less to do with light and the quantity or quality thereof than with everyone surviving the operation.

 

Chloroform and nitrous oxide are non-flammable. Cyclopropane was not used until 1929 (had to look that up). John

 

I had in mind my operation for tonsils back in 1956. The anesthetic was ether. I believe this was quite common for many years.

 

We must be simmilar vintage beenthere, same op & simmilar year & yes Ether.

 

Ether (diethylether) also makes a great martini -- it's an acquired taste they say. However, "ether bars" were quite common around the turn of the 20th century. The great advantage was that you could get plowed at noon and be sober for work an hour or so later.

Neither ether nor chloroform are gases at room temperature. The fire hazard from ether was, of course, appreciated from the start.

John