I’d like start a project but it’s way over my head. I’m not even sure how to use forums. If this isn’t where I should be, please just say so. I’m pretty thick skinned.
It is an LED lighting project. I can give as much info as I can but don’t want to be where I’m not supposed to be.
Thanks

 

It is an LED lighting project. I can give as much info as I can but don’t want to be where I’m not supposed to be.

Start by describing what you want.

Since you're new, a more descriptive title would be better something vague and meaningless (except to you).

 

A post comparable to the one you made back in 2009 for your Halloween Beer Tap project would be a good place to start.

 

Looking to create a programmable led array for a collectibles display. The pieces are 3 generations of Royal Doulton character jugs. The jugs in this collection will be illuminated from the inside. The collection is not complete so project must be ever expandable.
There are 3 sizes with 3 different lumens needed to achieve proper “glow”. I’ve started building prototype light sources using a 1 3w, a 2 3w and a 5 3w, cool white leds, in series. They look great.
I’d like to run a program(s) that could flash like a Pink Floyd show or dim up and down at random.
After figuring that out, I’d like to add some RBG general illumination to the 20 or 30 shelves and hopefully a manual push button ON for each piece.
That’s as far as I gotten.

 

I’ve started building prototype light sources using a 1 3w, a 2 3w and a 5 3w, cool white leds, in series.

What is the supply voltage and operating current?

I’d like to run a program(s) that could flash like a Pink Floyd show or dim up and down at random.

1. What is a Pink Floyd show?
2. Do you want all of the LEDs to change brightness together?
3. What single board computers/microcontrollers are you considering?
4. How expandable?

 

What is a Pink Floyd show

One of the greatest English rock bands. Their stage shows are legendary...

 

Because of the need to scale out with no defined upper limit, I would look at a solution that provides a simple controller for each jug. This could just be a simple 555 timer and a MOSFET to turn the LED on for a fixed time period. Cheap and easy to produce a small board that would sit under each jug, but limiting in the long term.

Next up would be to use a tiny single chip microcontroller to control the LED. This would allow for ramp up/down of brightness plus more complex on/off sequences, though each would be independent of the others. The bigger issue is power supply consumption and connectivity.

Finally, the same approach would, with a software change, allow all the jugs to be connected together with a single wire and controlled by a separate microcontroller allowing the complex sequencing you desire (programmed from a PC/laptop but then run autonomously). There is virtually no limit to the number of jugs that could be controlled subject again to power constraints.

 

Because of the need to scale out with no defined upper limit, I would look at a solution that provides a simple controller for each jug. This could just be a simple 555 timer and a MOSFET to turn the LED on for a fixed time period. Cheap and easy to produce a small board that would sit under each jug, but limiting in the long term.

Next up would be to use a tiny single chip microcontroller to control the LED. This would allow for ramp up/down of brightness plus more complex on/off sequences, though each would be independent of the others. The bigger issue is power supply consumption and connectivity.

Finally, the same approach would, with a software change, allow all the jugs to be connected together with a single wire and controlled by a separate microcontroller allowing the complex sequencing you desire (programmed from a PC/laptop but then run autonomously). There is virtually no limit to the number of jugs that could be controlled subject again to power constraints.

The architecture you propose seems sound but the first implementation in your first suggestion seems unequal to the requirements.

A possibility riffing on your second option would be battery powered (possibly small LiPo, using wireless charging), RF connected (BLE seems like a very good possibility) devices for each one. Making them addressable . I think I would even explore using RGBW addressable LEDs rather than simple white ones since the possibilities are endless at that point.

Yes, it's a relatively complex solution but only incrementally more so than the base solution for "simple"version. Alternatively, some serial protocol that ran on the same pair providing power might be an interesting possibility. I just feel that the ability to take any jug from the case without interrupting the display or rearranging them at will... is a nice touch.

 

What is the supply voltage and operating current?

1. What is a Pink Floyd show?
2. Do you want all of the LEDs to change brightness together?
3. What single board computers/microcontrollers are you considering?
4. How expandable?

What is the supply voltage and operating current?

I have figured out nothing except for the number of bulbs needed for the different sizes of jugs.
I am not considering any computers/microcontrollers YET because I don’t know anything about this stuff.
How expandable? 200 - 400 jugs.

 

Hi Ya'akov

The architecture you propose seems sound but the first implementation in your first suggestion seems unequal to the requirements.

True, but I saw it as a confidence boost to get something 'stand-alone' working, not knowing yet what the TS' skill level/expertise is...

A possibility riffing on your second option would be battery powered (possibly small LiPo, using wireless charging)

I did think about that, but 1 x 3W LED, 2 x 3W LED and 5 x 3W LED sort of rules out any serious independent battery option (Vf of 3W/700mA LED is 3 - 4v, needing 5v, 7- 9v and 16 - 20v respectively) and a LiPo battery small enough to be contained within the likely form-factor, even for 1 LED, would have fairly limited run-time. Wireless charging isn't really viable/practical

I think I would even explore using RGBW addressable LEDs rather than simple white ones since the possibilities are endless at that point.

I'm not aware of any addressable RGB LEDs with 3W per channel output capability; if you do, let me know...

Alternatively, some serial protocol that ran on the same pair providing power might be an interesting possibility. I just feel that the ability to take any jug from the case without interrupting the display or rearranging them at will... is a nice touch.

I was thinking of the '1-wire' protocol but simpler as its all outbound comms. A simple implementation would just be <address><command> in 16+2 bit packet.

 

I have figured out nothing except for the number of bulbs needed for the different sizes of jugs.

When you tested these, what voltage were you powering each 'size' with and what were you using to power them? Do you have a part # for the LEDs you were using, or a link to the product.

Please post a picture of these jugs. Will the LED driver sit under them or what? how did you envisage this physically?

Can you estimate approx how many of each 'size' you are likely to want? This will give some idea of power requirement.

I am not considering any computers/microcontrollers YET because I don’t know anything about this stuff.

Then we can guide you.

How expandable? 200 - 400 jugs.

Wow! Then the scheme I'm proposing, with some tweaks, will work well as it is inherently expandable. How are the jugs located physically with respect to each other? eg in rows on shelves - what sort of distances between them?

Your biggest problem may be physically powering that many units...


Lastly, what's your $$ budget for this?

 

Before I get completely lost in the technical jargon you guys are invariably going to bombard me with, let me try to draw this out one more time.
I will have, at least, 5 cabinets of 6 or 7 selves holding 8 to 20 jugs per. The shelves could have general illumination with addressable RBG string or rope. These would run on a separate program and be pretty straightforward, though I still don’t understand controlling.
Not every jug will be illuminated from within because not every jug has the ability to “glow”. They will be spread out sporadically. I would estimate 400 jugs in total and 50% “glow”.
I’m using a bench power supply to build individual lights based on power needed to glow each size.

 

What is the supply voltage and operating current?

I have figured out nothing except for the number of bulbs needed for the different sizes of jugs.

You indicated that 8 LEDs was working well for the 3 current jugs. You must have a power supply for them and be operating them at a certain current with a current limiting resistor.

If you want to expand to more jugs, obviously you can't keep putting the LEDs in series due to voltage constraints.

I am not considering any computers/microcontrollers YET because I don’t know anything about this stuff.

Randomness without a computer/microcontroller will be difficult.

How expandable? 200 - 400 jugs.

That's a lot.

Is there a certain Pink Floyd show lighting aspect you're referring to?

 

Before I get completely lost in the technical jargon you guys are invariably going to bombard me with, let me try to draw this out one more time.
I will have, at least, 5 cabinets of 6 or 7 selves holding 8 to 20 jugs per. The shelves could have general illumination with addressable RBG string or rope. These would run on a separate program and be pretty straightforward, though I still don’t understand controlling.
Not every jug will be illuminated from within because not every jug has the ability to “glow”. They will be spread out sporadically. I would estimate 400 jugs in total and 50% “glow”.
I’m using a bench power supply to build individual lights based on power needed to glow each size.

Great. I'll try to keep the jargon to a minimum but there is a certain amount of necessary complexity. Not knowing your level of knowledge/expertise in electronics its hard to judge how detailed an explanation to give right now. I've got a pretty good idea how this can be made to work, but the devil, as always, is in the detail. Using the bench supply to test the LEDs is a great way forward because it will tell us what voltage and current gave you your desired result for each size. Hopefully you can tell us what those values were. A bench supply won't be much use for the final solution because its not powerful enough and not cost effective. LEDs like to run at a constant current as long as there is enough voltage to turn them on, typically 3 to 4v per LED. This is one area of complexity as your different size jugs will each take the same current but at different voltages. Instead we'll use a technique for controlling them that allows the different sizes to run at the same higher voltage with a fixed current and allows the LEDs to be dimmed on and off at a controlled rate, which achieves your desire to sequence them.

 

One of the greatest English rock bands. [EVER]

Quote above edited to reflect MY opinion of PF.

 

My electronics skill level is approximately 1.5 out of 10. Like I said, I don’t even know how to use forums. I don’t know how to address your questions one at a time.
I’ll try a few photos after this.
I don’t currently have a computer. I know I will need one and will definitely need microcontroller(s) and drivers. However, I have no clue as to what(s).
I’m currently testing each “bulb array” with a Wanptek bench supply. It is set to a limit of 700mA. I have no resistors built into bulb array.
I do not have a number of each size needed to figure out power needs. I know I’ll need something hefty to power all of this. I’m going to say, eventually ~100 each.
I am never envisioning ever having more than 3 or 4 jugs illuminated at one time. I’d like one display program to fire each array individually at full power quickly…bam bam bam and another to slow fade in/out. (PWM?)
I have no budget for this. I make beer for a living and it doesn’t pay well but I do have some dead relatives pushing me accomplish this.
Going to try photos

 

 

 

 

Tried to add text to photos but couldn’t figure that out either.