On a side note... I had two excellent teachers that to this day I'm grateful for. One was on 6th grade, and the other one on 9th. The former taught us the true meaning of teamwork, and a sense of belonging. And the latter taught us a deep sense of responsibility for our actions, and to admit our mistakes without it affecting our sense of worth before others.

 

to admit our mistakes without it affecting our sense of worth before others.

That's a good one! "Oops, missed again" is one of my regular recitals.
Nobody is right all the time and refusing to admit it only adds an intentional mistake to an accidental one.

Just look at my posts in the Hurricane Maria Thread. It wasn't a fuse problem. A couple of square inches of circuit board had vaporized.

Oops, missed again.

 

That's a good one! "Oops, missed again" is one of my regular recitals.
Nobody is right all the time and refusing to admit it only adds an intentional mistake to an accidental one.

Just look at my posts in the Hurricane Maria Thread. It wasn't a fuse problem. A couple of square inches of circuit board had vaporized.

Oops, missed again.

That's an educational key, for me... that's the way I raised my son... you never punish someone for making a mistake. You only punish them if the mistake was done due to negligence and their well being was in danger... most of the times his mistakes were so painful to him (relatively speaking), both physically and morally, that he didn't need punishment at all, nor further humiliation from my part.

 

That's an educational key, for me... that's the way I raised my son... you never punish someone for making a mistake. You only punish them if the mistake was done due to negligence and their well being was in danger... most of the times his mistakes were so painful to him (relatively speaking), both physically and morally, that he didn't need punishment at all, nor further humiliation from my part.

Or for not obeying mom or dad. Or for the teacher as well. On the rare occasion I would get punished at school, I would keep my mouth shut because I know I would get it worse once I got home.

 

you never punish someone for making a mistake.

Which brings up another of my memorable quotes.
My nephew pulled a stupid and said, "I should have known better."
I said, "You will never get any C%@p out of me if you're learning from it."

 

Which brings up another of my memorable quotes.
My nephew pulled a stupid and said, "I should have known better."
I said, "You will never get any C%@p out of me if you're learning from it."

That's the point, exactly... I only give people a hard time when I realize they don't give a crap about their blunders.

 

Or for not obeying mom or dad. Or for the teacher as well. On the rare occasion I would get punished at school, I would keep my mouth shut because I know I would get it worse once I got home.

My parents were a bit different, but along the same vein. If the teacher or the principal sent a note home (this very rarely happened), then I could expect punishment at home. But if they didn't, then my parents considered the matter settled whether I told them about it or not. I usually didn't tell them, but not out of any desire to hide it from them. It's just that it was a done deal. On the other hand, if I felt that I had been punished unfairly and told my parents, they would go talk to the teacher or principal and stand up for me (unless my description to them made it clear that I had not been treated unfairly, in which case the would take the time to explain why that was so). The understanding, however, was that if I didn't tell the whole story straight up and they discovered that I had left something out that changed the fairness aspect, then I would REALLY get punished when we got home. I invoked that rule perhaps half a dozen times in elementary school (and once in sixth grade) and in all but one occasion got an apology from the teacher or the principal. There was one time when my dad and the principal agreed that the getting punished for what I had done was reasonable from a principal's perspective, but that it was also reasonable for me to view it as unreasonable from mine. Because I had been completely forthright in how I presented it to my father, there was no additional punishment and, in fact, the principal rescinded the rest of the punishment on his end going forward because of how I had handled it.

 

Or for not obeying mom or dad. Or for the teacher as well. On the rare occasion I would get punished at school, I would keep my mouth shut because I know I would get it worse once I got home.

Not me. If I thought the punishment was unfair I made damn sure the crime fit (and with interest accrued) even if I had to redo it retroactively.
As for at home punishment, I didn't care. Usually after the first mid quarter grade reports came out I was grounded from everything so it wasn't like there was any way to make things worse for myself for the rest of the year.

As the old saying goes,"you don't know what you are capable of until you have nothing left to lose." Which for me, if being grounded from everything for 6 - 9+ months a year for being too smart and knowing that some of my teachers were ignorant petty crap people was wrong I had zero issues with making things as wrong as I could bring myself to do.

 

My parents were a bit different, but along the same vein. If the teacher or the principal sent a note home (this very rarely happened), then I could expect punishment at home. But if they didn't, then my parents considered the matter settled whether I told them about it or not. I usually didn't tell them, but not out of any desire to hide it from them. It's just that it was a done deal. On the other hand, if I felt that I had been punished unfairly and told my parents, they would go talk to the teacher or principal and stand up for me (unless my description to them made it clear that I had not been treated unfairly, in which case the would take the time to explain why that was so). The understanding, however, was that if I didn't tell the whole story straight up and they discovered that I had left something out that changed the fairness aspect, then I would REALLY get punished when we got home. I invoked that rule perhaps half a dozen times in elementary school (and once in sixth grade) and in all but one occasion got an apology from the teacher or the principal. There was one time when my dad and the principal agreed that the getting punished for what I had done was reasonable from a principal's perspective, but that it was also reasonable for me to view it as unreasonable from mine. Because I had been completely forthright in how I presented it to my father, there was no additional punishment and, in fact, the principal rescinded the rest of the punishment on his end going forward because of how I had handled it.

You were lucky. For me it was to total opposite.

It didn't matter if I was wrong or not. I was going to catch hell anyway even if my story totally checked out and proved I was right.

The fact I was involved was enough and if that wasn't enough I would be told a totally different story of what someone thought happened that put me at fault and then called a liar for not going along with the made up story.

I'm pretty sure that where my 'slacker/don't care what anyone thinks' personality developed from. It didn't matter whether I worked my butt off or didn't do anything. Either way it wasn't good enough so why bother wasting my effort at all if that's the fixed outcome.

 

You were lucky. For me it was to total opposite.

Yes and no. In this regard, very much so. My father and I had a wonderful relationship very early on and it continued right up until the day before he died (the last time I talked to him was the afternoon prior). Not only that, my friends in high school, my coworkers at my first job after high school, and my girlfriend throughout all of that time recognized that quality relationship and remarked upon it on several occasions. But while a big part of that was simply due to the nature of the man, there was also an element of the fact that, with my mother's crippling stroke when I was in second grade, that my dad and I had to depend on each other to take care of her until her death the summer following my high school graduation. That forced me to take on a level of maturity and responsibility that I almost certainly otherwise wouldn't have. For instance, throughout junior high (6th through 9th) I rode my bike the mile home, regardless of the weather, at lunch to prepare her meal and stay with her while she ate to ensure she didn't choke, and I always knew that if she were to pass away while no one was home, it would almost certainly be me that would find her body. That made it so that the worst thing for either my dad or me was the thought that we would let the other down and be a disappointment to them. The one true regret I have is that I missed out not only on having a mother, but having that particular mother, because from everything that I ever learned from a lot of people that were in a position to really know firsthand, as a quality mother she had no equal.

 

Yes and no. In this regard, very much so. My father and I had a wonderful relationship very early on and it continued right up until the day before he died (the last time I talked to him was the afternoon prior). Not only that, my friends in high school, my coworkers at my first job after high school, and my girlfriend throughout all of that time recognized that quality relationship and remarked upon it on several occasions. But while a big part of that was simply due to the nature of the man, there was also an element of the fact that, with my mother's crippling stroke when I was in second grade, that my dad and I had to depend on each other to take care of her until her death the summer following my high school graduation. That forced me to take on a level of maturity and responsibility that I almost certainly otherwise wouldn't have. For instance, throughout junior high (6th through 9th) I rode my bike the mile home, regardless of the weather, at lunch to prepare her meal and stay with her while she ate to ensure she didn't choke, and I always knew that if she were to pass away while no one was home, it would almost certainly be me that would find her body. That made it so that the worst thing for either my dad or me was the thought that we would let the other down and be a disappointment to them. The one true regret I have is that I missed out not only on having a mother, but having that particular mother, because from everything that I ever learned from a lot of people that were in a position to really know firsthand, as a quality mother she had no equal.

You were very blessed indeed... as a father of an 18 year old girl with severe cerebral palsy, I can completely relate to what you've described. She was born with this magical ability of always being able to bring out the best in people when she's around.

And my oldest son developed a maturity far superior to mine when he was young.

As one of my favorite authors once wrote: "we all have the capability of shining our brightest when things are at their darkest" ...

My girl has taught us not to dispair when under stress, but rather to look at things as an opportunity to better ourselves.

 

It didn't matter if I was wrong or not. I was going to catch hell anyway even if my story totally checked out and proved I was right.

My nephew got that, "undisciplined discipline" treatment. It didn't matter whether he spilled his milk or burned down the school, the punishment was the same. The result is that he believes his behavior has nothing to do with his results.

For instance: I paid to send him to air conditioning school, so he smoked some pot every morning to be sure nothing would transfer to long term memory. Twenty years later I discovered that he didn't know that (some) electric motors have oil holes. 2) He gets rid of all his money every day so he will never have any net worth. During one time period, I was supporting him and his injured wife and he bought a lottery ticket while I was looking at him. The next day I told him, "There is no more cash coming from me". He never figured out there was any connection between the two events.

He isn't useless, but one can never guess which connections he will make. I needed a set of tires...they appeared. I worked for 40 hours measuring, specifying, and building a wiring harness for his motorcycle, he ripped it all out because it had 3 fuses in it. Right now he's doing his third prison sentence because he thinks he can control cocaine.

I waited until I was old enough to escape my insane family and the putrid school system and had my own life, which has been very good, as far as the choices I made. I hope you got over reacting when there was nothing to react to, unlike my nephew who seems stuck at 9 years old.

 

My nephew got that, "undisciplined discipline" treatment. It didn't matter whether he spilled his milk or burned down the school, the punishment was the same. The result is that he believes his behavior has nothing to do with his results.

I have a niece in pretty much the same boat. When she was young (one to three years old while the two of them were living with us), she could do one thing (say pee her pants) one day and her mother would find it amusing and laugh. The next day she'd do the same thing and get beaten for it. Absolutely zero consistency. I don't know how many times she's been in prison now.

That, among many things, is one of the big things we strive for in raising our daughter -- consistency in bounds and consequences. Thus far, it seems to be working very well. Now, she turns 10 in a week, so check back in about, oh, three or four years and see if I'm singing the same tune.

 

I hope you got over reacting when there was nothing to react to, unlike my nephew who seems stuck at 9 years old.

I've never been much for overreacting to something that did not utterly justify it. Life for me turned out way better than expected but still I admit not close to what I had hoped.

Still, I'm in my mid 40's now and have set my life up well enough to meet my expectations to the point I don't have to work for anyone else unless I want to. I am not rich financially but I am above average resourced for self sufficiency for my age and that's what counts in my books.

For my family, my parents got divorced shortly after I got out of high school and that event and it's collective fallout pretty well took the selfishness and fight out of both of them and as I saw it made both grow up and acknowledged that their views and expectations of others (especially family) were far from normal and acceptable. They both put in as many bad years in life as adults from that event as I did as a kid which balances the books in my view.

I hate everything there was about my childhood which as an adult is what makes me extremely grateful for the rights and freedoms to run my life as I so choose as an adult that I have now. It's also why I put an extra effort into making kids feel that they are respected for who they are by at least one adult.

 

Discussion changed its direction ..........
These things are theorized:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parenting_styles

http://www.parentingscience.com/authoritarian-parenting.html

"Authoritarian parenting is a restrictive, punishment-heavy parenting style in which parents make their children follow their directions with little to no explanation or feedback.

Indulgent parenting, also called permissive, non-directive, lenient or libertarian.

Positive parenting A parenting style overlapping substantially with authoritative parenting and defined by consistent support and guidance through developmental stages"

 

Every parental style has advantages and disadvantages.
Specialists recommend the democratic style that is a combination of others above.
http://www.mommyedition.com/democratic-parenting-raising-your-child-positively

"What this means is that all members of the family are respected equally and treated the same."

"Democratic parenting stresses choices. Children are encouraged to make choices daily on many different areas in their lives. These choices are then followed up with consequences. This helps children to understand that with each decision they make be it a good choice or a bad choice"

 

"Democratic parenting stresses choices. Children are encouraged to make choices daily on many different areas in their lives. These choices are then followed up with consequences. This helps children to understand that with each decision they make be it a good choice or a bad choice"

That concept was a huge issue between me and my now Ex with her daughter. She was very much the authoritarian helicopter parent type, whereas I tried to take a more rationalized pragmatic approach of giving our daughter options and explanations for things and letting her deside what she thought was best fitting to her situations. Rarely did she ever disappoint in her decision making.

Hands down I got the most praise fore being, " The best parent ever!", for it simply because she got to feel like she was somebody who mattered and not just a possession.

Down side was I also treated her mother the same way, ultimately making her both have to think and act for herself and accept that she had no control over me beyond advice influences. It always seemed strange to me that she wanted total control over me and the kid, yet rarely took control over herself when needed. Too often did she disappoint and bewilder in her decision making.

 

Every parental style has advantages and disadvantages.
Specialists recommend the democratic style that is a combination of others above.
http://www.mommyedition.com/democratic-parenting-raising-your-child-positively

"What this means is that all members of the family are respected equally and treated the same."

"Democratic parenting stresses choices. Children are encouraged to make choices daily on many different areas in their lives. These choices are then followed up with consequences. This helps children to understand that with each decision they make be it a good choice or a bad choice"

While we do most of what is described in that "democratic" parenting article, our house most definitely is NOT a democracy with everyone being treated equal. Our daughter does not have an equal say in things. She has zero say except where we allow her to have input. She understands that. She also understands that when I tell her something, that's the end of the discussion and pushing back will not get her what she wants and will likely lose her something she already has, so she does not push it with me (and she knows that she can successfully push her mom quite a bit further and sometimes win, so she will punch her mom's buttons, but she also knows that there's a line that is best not crossed). Now, having said that, we ask for her input on lots of things and take her input seriously into account as much as possible. We also always make sure to explain why she can or can't do something. She gets to make lots of choices -- and accept the consequences -- but they are choices within a framework that we have established and that we allow her to make. She also gets to accept the consequences of not making choices when one is offered. She either has to live with what we decide or, if the occasion warrants, no choice at all. For example, if we want to stop at a drive-through we might let her decide which one. If she won't decide, we might simply not stop at any and just go home.

I think like a large majority of (young) children, once she knows the bounds and that the bounds are real, she's more than willing to live within them and be quite content.

 

"Democratic parenting stresses choices. Children are encouraged to make choices daily on many different areas in their lives. These choices are then followed up with consequences. This helps children to understand that with each decision they make be it a good choice or a bad choice"

I certainly agree with that. I try to give kids as much leeway as possible, consistent with their own safety and the rules of civility. Attaching consequences to prior choices and actions is huge, even for adults. Kids these days are struggling with risk management as they get older because they have so little experience when they're little. Their parents have acted as if they should not experience risk. It's damn dangerous to postpone learning about risk until you're driving, drinking, whatever. Better to learn it early when the consequences are less severe.

 

@tcmtech
Your auto-correct is a little crazy today. I don't know whether learning how to read auto-correct is increasing or decreasing my I.Q.