Inverting 2800VA, 60Hz, 120V, seeking proper transformer

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
30,732
Current wise there will be 23ish amps at 120v available, minus losses . It just needs to be 2 phases because houses here are wired with multi wire branches and it's possible to overload the shared neutral if it's all on the same phase.
Reminds me of the question often posed to Electrical apprentices quoting the old regulation for Kitchen outlets and still valid in some jurisdictions.
Where outlets are wired with 3 wire and gnd and a top outlet is wired for one 120v L1 and the bottom one L2 with a shared neutral, if an identical 10amp load is plugged into each outlet, what is the current in the neutral?
Max.;)
 

Reloadron

Joined Jan 15, 2015
7,893
At a glance your Florida code pretty much follows the NEC (National Electric Code). Your generator is one of the newer design Generator Inverter types. Take a look at your owner's manual where they show a partial schematic and note how ground is wired in on the outlets. Note there is no bond between AC Neutral and Ground on the generator outlets. If you go with a transformer to get from 120 Volts to 240 Volts split phase keep in mind that at your service panel Neutral and Ground are bonded.

This is your generator owner's manual. A block schematic can be found on Page 46 of the manual. Your generator offers one 5-20R duplex 20 Amp service receptacle and one L5-20R twist locking type receptacle. I suggest using the latter to connect to your transformer.

Additionally keep in mind that while advertised as a 2,800 VA unit there is a slight caveat in that 2,800 VA is a total. The generator also outputs 12 VDC @ 12 Amps for battery charging which is subtracted from the total power. This is covered on page 19 of your owner's manual. With a power of 1.0 you have about 2,650 Watts and with a Power Factor of 0.8 you are down to 2,090 Watts. As long as you stay below those numbers life is good, if you exceed those numbers a red light comes along. Also resistive loads are no big deal but you toss in a motor or other inductive loads and that power factor number starts dropping real quick.

Ron
 

be80be

Joined Jul 5, 2008
2,395
I think it's more like this if you only have 20 amps your only going to get 20 amps.

But for those who may come later the, Hot and neutral wires on a single circuit normally carry exactly the same current.

That's why we now have things like GFCI outlet's that can tell when the current is going some where else like you before you get a big shock.
 

ebp

Joined Feb 8, 2018
2,332
"... what is the current in the neutral?"

That's one that caused a lot of grief when offices and other commercial buildings started filling up with electronics with rectifiers and capacitive filters and the neutral currents in 3-phase systems suddenly didn't cancel anymore.
 

Thread Starter

MrSoftware

Joined Oct 29, 2013
2,273
After one storm I was chatting with a neighbor and realized he had his entire house wired to his 110v generator using the same polarity for all circuits. I said hey that's a fire hazard, you don't want to do that! He said his electrician did it and said it was fine. Yikes!
 

Reloadron

Joined Jan 15, 2015
7,893
After one storm I was chatting with a neighbor and realized he had his entire house wired to his 110v generator using the same polarity for all circuits. I said hey that's a fire hazard, you don't want to do that! He said his electrician did it and said it was fine. Yikes!
So he had nothing in his house running 240 VAC? While I am not in Florida I do have air conditioning whole house which is 240 VAC, Our electric clothes drier is 240 VAC. Many homes have an electric stove at 240 VAC. Below is a rough drawing of what a residential breaker looks like.

Power Panel.png
The only way to apply 120 VAC to a panel like this is to back feed L1 and L2 using a dual breaker for an A and B position. L1 and L2 would need a disconnect because if L1 & L2 ever went active while back feeding as I mentioned things would get ugly. Nothing on the panel designed for 240 VAC would work. I can't imagine any code approving this. Also in a standard box Ground and Neutral are bonded and that is the only location they should be bonded.Literally with 120 VAC single phase you can have A or you can have B but having A & B is not a good idea.

Ron
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
27,822
They tend not to specify efficiency as such in most cases. Sometimes there is enough data that you can reasonably approximate it, but not often. In general, Hammond transformers are good quality and they don't try to save money by scrimping on iron or copper. I would guess something in the range of 95 to 98 percent for that transformer - probably closer to the upper end.

There are multiple contributors to losses in transformers. In iron core transformers winding resistance is usually the main contributor to loss. "Eddy current" loss in the iron core is usually the second greatest contributor (transformers use thin steel laminations, each electrically insulated over its surface, to reduce eddy current loss).

There is a "standby" loss common to all transformers. When the primary is energized but there is no load on the secondary, there is still some current that flows in the primary because the primary is an inductor. This is usually referred to a "magnetizing current." The phase relationship of voltage and current is such that there is no "true" power loss. However, the current does act against the resistance of the winding, so there is some true power loss there. Because Hammond designs conservatively, this loss is generally quite small, though there is a trade-off between adding length of wire (more "turns") and accepting higher magnetizing current. The transformer in question is designed for use at 50 or 60 Hz. When used at 60 Hz you get some extra benefit because that is the less-demanding case with regard core and copper for magnetizing current. Eddy current losses also contribute to the no-load losses.

I have also used Hevi-Duty brand transformers, usually the 1 and 2 KVA sizes. They are quite efficient, as is evidenced by the fact that they get only slightly warm. The benefit of using good industrial transformers is that they are more efficient and they are designed to last forever. And it costs less to buy good quality than to replace poor quality several times.
 
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