How much current do you measure through the electrodes when the arc is active? what is the voltage across the gap right before the arc forms and while the arc is active? If you linearly increase the voltage slowly, at what voltage does the arc appear?

I have no way or I don’t know how to measure anything of what you have just said. The circuit draws around 20-40W depending on how close the spark gap is (that also includes the drive circuit to get the high voltage dc). The voltage is around 4kV at the output before the spark gap. So in terms of current at the spark gap maybe around 5mA? I have no idea.

 

I have no way or I don’t know how to measure anything of what you have just said. The circuit draws around 20-40W depending on how close the spark gap is (that also includes the drive circuit to get the high voltage dc). The voltage is around 4kV at the output before the spark gap. So in terms of current at the spark gap maybe around 5mA? I have no idea.

Well it's likely a hopeless undertaking, if you can't measure you cant quantify and if you cant quantify its pretty hard to evaluate/compare potential solutions.

 

May I ask, what is the goal of all this?

To make a circuit on the primary coil side that will resonate with the secondary coil. Similar to a Tesla Coil. Just I didn't want to go the route of the primary circuit being like a SGTC because of the tuning.

 

Once again, several questions that have not even been acknowledged . What we need to know is both the open circuit voltage of the source, and the current capability of the voltage source. In fact, what is the intended source of the voltage that the arc will be conducting?? I am not asking for a measurement, I am asking fora statement of intentions. The voltage to produce the arc will come from some source, and a description of that intended source is what I am asking for. Voltage is seldom "spontaneously generated".
I am asking for a description of what will produce this voltage. At some point there must be an external source of energy, I am asking how that will provide the voltage for the arc.

 

Once again, several questions that have not even been acknowledged . What we need to know is both the open circuit voltage of the source, and the current capability of the voltage source. In fact, what is the intended source of the voltage that the arc will be conducting?? I am not asking for a measurement, I am asking fora statement of intentions. The voltage to produce the arc will come from some source, and a description of that intended source is what I am asking for. Voltage is seldom "spontaneously generated".
I am asking for a description of what will produce this voltage. At some point there must be an external source of energy, I am asking how that will provide the voltage for the arc.

Sorry, my knowledge is not that great with electronics and I'm still learning. With terms like "open circuit voltage of the source" and other things I am not familiar with what that means. Anyway, I'm leaning in the direction of not taking this route as it seems to be too complicated/ advanced for me.

Thx for the help though from you and everyone else

 

OK, staring from post #1: " I have a high voltage DC power source ". Now I am asking about that source. I did see a reference to some form of the"slayer" circuit, which as I see it is mostly dependent on luck. By LUCK I mean getting a number of unspecified variables right. Like I mentioned in another post, an actual oscillator circuit with an actual positive feedback coil can be made to reliably start.

Now here are some words of caution, since the TS has claimed to lack both knowledge and equipment: Producing signifigant sparks requires a bit of energy, and this often includes voltages that can be rather lethal. In plainer words, power levels that can leave you rather dead. or even extremely dead. So I suggest gaining some understanding of shock hazards before going much farther. I am not trying to spoil the fun, but simply to suggest learning more first.

 

OK, staring from post #1: " I have a high voltage DC power source ". Now I am asking about that source. I did see a reference to some form of the"slayer" circuit, which as I see it is mostly dependent on luck. By LUCK I mean getting a number of unspecified variables right. Like I mentioned in another post, an actual oscillator circuit with an actual positive feedback coil can be made to reliably start.

Now here are some words of caution, since the TS has claimed to lack both knowledge and equipment: Producing signifigant sparks requires a bit of energy, and this often includes voltages that can be rather lethal. In plainer words, power levels that can leave you rather dead. or even extremely dead. So I suggest gaining some understanding of shock hazards before going much farther. I am not trying to spoil the fun, but simply to suggest learning more first.

My high voltage dc power source is a 12V, 1A Rated Power supply which is then run through a high frequency transformer (285KHz, I know it's high but after tuning, output was good and wasnt causing any issues with the 12V power supply) to get the voltage up to around 850V, then run through a 5 stage half wave voltage multiplier to get the output up to around 8.5kV DC.

As for safety, I'm definitely taking precautions. Not touching the circuit while it's on (trying not to, but I think I did once accidently but because it's low power, it just kinda felt weird), discharging the HV capacitors before touching the circuit, etc. This is extra but I also have my half-wave voltage multiplier in a box just in case something blows (capacitors).

In my case, instead of a feedback coil, I'd rather go the antenna feedback route. Anyway, for now I'm going in the direction of using a lower voltage so I can use a MOSET instead of going down the spark gap route.

 

This circuit sounds like a complete hazard. 8.5kV DC delivering even just a hundred or so milliamps is more than enough to kill you. You are also operating at frequencies and power levels that could possibly interfere with FCC-regulated airwaves. I would highly recommend that you scale things WAY down and stay far and away from high-voltage AC/DC. Besides that you should run a simulation before building anything. Once you do start working on a physical device, make sure you understand what you're getting into and record measurements as you go along to ensure that all reading are nominal. If not, stop and correct the issues you encounter immediately. Electronics can be a lot of fun but always remember that it comes with plenty of dangers and caveats. Tinker safely!

 

This circuit sounds like a complete hazard. 8.5kV DC delivering even just a hundred or so milliamps is more than enough to kill you. You are also operating at frequencies and power levels that could possibly interfere with FCC-regulated airwaves. I would highly recommend that you scale things WAY down and stay far and away from high-voltage AC/DC. Besides that you should run a simulation before building anything. Once you do start working on a physical device, make sure you understand what you're getting into and record measurements as you go along to ensure that all reading are nominal. If not, stop and correct the issues you encounter immediately. Electronics can be a lot of fun but always remember that it comes with plenty of dangers and caveats. Tinker safely!

The circuit is being power by 12V, maybe 2A-3A range, I cant remember entirely. My power supply is rated for 1A, but I've kept an eye on it (or hand to feel if it's getting hot). The amperage would vary depending on spark gap distance. Let's say I hit 5A on my power supply (5 times the amperage rating it the power supply), and all 5A go into the transformer and voltage multiplier, at 8.5kV, that's 7mA under perfect conditions and that's not including power needed for the PWM circuit for the high frequency transformer.

 

My high voltage dc power source is a 12V, 1A Rated Power supply which is then run through a high frequency transformer (285KHz, I know it's high but after tuning, output was good and wasnt causing any issues with the 12V power supply) to get the voltage up to around 850V, then run through a 5 stage half wave voltage multiplier to get the output up to around 8.5kV DC.

As for safety, I'm definitely taking precautions. Not touching the circuit while it's on (trying not to, but I think I did once accidently but because it's low power, it just kinda felt weird), discharging the HV capacitors before touching the circuit, etc. This is extra but I also have my half-wave voltage multiplier in a box just in case something blows (capacitors).

In my case, instead of a feedback coil, I'd rather go the antenna feedback route. Anyway, for now I'm going in the direction of using a lower voltage so I can use a MOSET instead of going down the spark gap route.

You said in an earlier post that you were unable to measure voltages or currents, yet here you confidently assert values like 12V, 285KHz, 850V, 8.5 kV. I'm struggling to make any sense of your posts, how about some photographs of all this? You even recently said:

my knowledge is not that great with electronics

Based on your responses to the many questions you've been asked, I'd advise you immediately stop fiddling around aimlessly. There are many very experienced engineers on this site who can help you learn, but you must answer their questions, share pictures and so on. The numbers you're mentioning imply grave potential dangers to you and others, you have been warned.

Your biggest problem here is not technical but intellectual, you must understand the subject more before going any further, so get some books, get some qualifications. I'm shocked at today's world where people want to find the least effort route to reaching some goal, people just hack and follow crude directions and never develop the deep insights to truly understand what they're doing, don't be that person.

 

May I ask, what is the goal of all this?

Me too. Are you building a transmitter? Is it your intention to transmit some sort of signal or energy? What's the purpose?

my knowledge is not that great with electronics and I'm still learning.

Danger warning #1: "I'm still learning." You MAY learn a lesson you will live to regret. If you live at all.

terms like "open circuit voltage of the source" and other things I am not familiar with what that means

Open circuit voltage: A battery is an open voltage. It's common voltage may be 1.5V, such as a C cell battery or AA or AAA. Open circuit voltage is just how much volts are available for your project.

TS has claimed to lack both knowledge and equipment: Producing signifigant sparks requires a bit of energy, and this often includes voltages that can be rather lethal. In plainer words, power levels that can leave you rather dead. or even extremely dead.

This is my entire point - this is dangerous. I'm wondering how the moderators have allowed this thread to go on this far. But I'm not a moderator and am not privilege to the level of knowledge they have on electronics or even safety.

I'd rather go the antenna feedback route.

Again, are you attempting to build a transmitter?

I'm hesitant to even give you the slightest bit of advice since it could result in you being a member of AAC for a very short period of time. And out of concern for those who love you - I wouldn't want them to lose someone they care so much about.

MY brief experience with HV (High Voltage) was that of a flyback transformer out of an old and very big console TV. While being extremely careful I got a little to close to the HV source and took an unexpected discharge right in the chin. 65KV to be precise. Felt like my jaw was broken, though it wasn't. HV can hit you out of nowhere you'd expect. And placing your hand on ANY part of a High Voltage circuit while operating can be a fatal proposition.

We would like you to remain a good and safe member of AAC. Even those with little knowledge such as myself may still have something of value to add to a thread. I can't make any advice to this thread other than "Please STOP!" I believe you're headed for the big spark gap in the sky. I've had incidents where I was darned lucky. 120VAC @ 400Hz from hand to hand. Knocked me on my A$$ three feet back. The TV and chin thing. And possibly some experiences that were bad enough to leave no memory of the event.

Learn about basic electronics before you build your space traveling Time Machine. My grandson doesn't share the same love for electronics as I do. Got him a learning gift one year for Christmas. All he wanted to do was build the advanced projects. Did not want to walk the whole pathway of learning. Which is why he failed to accomplish the advanced project. Please - take the time to learn everything that comes before - before you build a space transmitter to "Phone Home".

 

You said in an earlier post that you were unable to measure voltages or currents, yet here you confidently assert values like 12V, 285KHz, 850V, 8.5 kV. I'm struggling to make any sense of your posts, how about some photographs of all this? You even recently said:



Based on your responses to the many questions you've been asked, I'd advise you immediately stop fiddling around aimlessly. There are many very experienced engineers on this site who can help you learn, but you must answer their questions, share pictures and so on. The numbers you're mentioning imply grave potential dangers to you and others, you have been warned.

Your biggest problem here is not technical but intellectual, you must understand the subject more before going any further, so get some books, get some qualifications. I'm shocked at today's world where people want to find the least effort route to reaching some goal, people just hack and follow crude directions and never develop the deep insights to truly understand what they're doing, don't be that person.

The reason I didn’t have any numbers to give is because I didn’t know how to answer your question. Those numbers I gave were ideal numbers based on the power supply, but with electronics, you don’t get ideal with parasitics.

How much current do you measure through the electrodes when the arc is active? what is the voltage across the gap right before the arc forms and while the arc is active? If you linearly increase the voltage slowly, at what voltage does the arc appear?

This is the question you asked and I had no way to measure the current at the electrodes nor the voltage. To me that's not the same as asking what's the supply voltage or open source voltage.

In terms of safety, I didn't think this circuit would be dangerous considering the low wattage. I'm not using mains, like I said I'm using a 12V 1A rated power supply to power this which is then run through a transformer and half wave voltage multiplier. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Like I had said in an earlier post, I'm thinking of not going down this route as it seems to advanced for me. So I thanked everyone for their help and I thought that would end discussion on this thread, but it wasn't.

 

How much current do you measure through the electrodes when the arc is active?

You said:

This is the question you asked and I had no way to measure the current at the electrodes nor the voltage.

I asked:

Are you attempting to build a transmitter?

I'll ask it again. Are you attempting to build a transmitter?

 

Me too. Are you building a transmitter? Is it your intention to transmit some sort of signal or energy? What's the purpose?
Danger warning #1: "I'm still learning." You MAY learn a lesson you will live to regret. If you live at all.
Open circuit voltage: A battery is an open voltage. It's common voltage may be 1.5V, such as a C cell battery or AA or AAA. Open circuit voltage is just how much volts are available for your project.
This is my entire point - this is dangerous. I'm wondering how the moderators have allowed this thread to go on this far. But I'm not a moderator and am not privilege to the level of knowledge they have on electronics or even safety.

Again, are you attempting to build a transmitter?

I'm hesitant to even give you the slightest bit of advice since it could result in you being a member of AAC for a very short period of time. And out of concern for those who love you - I wouldn't want them to lose someone they care so much about.

MY brief experience with HV (High Voltage) was that of a flyback transformer out of an old and very big console TV. While being extremely careful I got a little to close to the HV source and took an unexpected discharge right in the chin. 65KV to be precise. Felt like my jaw was broken, though it wasn't. HV can hit you out of nowhere you'd expect. And placing your hand on ANY part of a High Voltage circuit while operating can be a fatal proposition.

We would like you to remain a good and safe member of AAC. Even those with little knowledge such as myself may still have something of value to add to a thread. I can't make any advice to this thread other than "Please STOP!" I believe you're headed for the big spark gap in the sky. I've had incidents where I was darned lucky. 120VAC @ 400Hz from hand to hand. Knocked me on my A$$ three feet back. The TV and chin thing. And possibly some experiences that were bad enough to leave no memory of the event.

Learn about basic electronics before you build your space traveling Time Machine. My grandson doesn't share the same love for electronics as I do. Got him a learning gift one year for Christmas. All he wanted to do was build the advanced projects. Did not want to walk the whole pathway of learning. Which is why he failed to accomplish the advanced project. Please - take the time to learn everything that comes before - before you build a space transmitter to "Phone Home".

Would you call a tesla coil a transmitter? Anyway as I've said before this seems to be to advanced me and I am considering going a different route.

 

I was trying to build a SGTC type circuit but also try to use the concept of a SSTC where you can use feedback to achieve resonance rather than having to manually tune. So at first I thought I was getting a 4kV output from my half wave voltage multiplier, then I realized that I had it wrong and I was getting 8.5kV. With SSTC's they use transistors/ MOSFET's but they are limited and heat can become a problem. So I wanted to see if I could use a spark gap instead and control the on/off the same way I can with a transistor.

But this seems to be pretty advanced for me and I'm considering going the transistor/MOSFET route instead.

 

Anyway I'm not trying to cause any trouble in here, nor give myself a bad reputation so maybe this is better to be left alone.

 

Would you call a tesla coil a transmitter?

No. But

So would there be a way to use an antenna/ feedback system and then use it to trigger a spark gap at that said signal?

Since you mentioned use of an antenna way back early on I was wondering if you're trying to build a radio transmitter. As to my question about whether you're building a transmitter or not - you indirectly did not answer my question. You said:

Would you call a tesla coil a transmitter?

And that's not an answer. A simple "Yes" or "No" would suffice. At least it would settle MY curiosity.

 

I was trying to build a SGTC type circuit but also try to use the concept of a SSTC where you can use feedback to achieve resonance rather than having to manually tune.

"A Spark Gap Tesla Coil type circuit." What for? Are you building a Tesla Coil? Or something else? If "Something Else" - what?

 

"A Spark Gap Tesla Coil type circuit." What for? Are you building a Tesla Coil? Or something else? If "Something Else" - what?

yah Im building a tesla coil

 

The reason I didn’t have any numbers to give is because I didn’t know how to answer your question. Those numbers I gave were ideal numbers based on the power supply, but with electronics, you don’t get ideal with parasitics.



This is the question you asked and I had no way to measure the current at the electrodes nor the voltage. To me that's not the same as asking what's the supply voltage or open source voltage.

In terms of safety, I didn't think this circuit would be dangerous considering the low wattage. I'm not using mains, like I said I'm using a 12V 1A rated power supply to power this which is then run through a transformer and half wave voltage multiplier. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Like I had said in an earlier post, I'm thinking of not going down this route as it seems to advanced for me. So I thanked everyone for their help and I thought that would end discussion on this thread, but it wasn't.

right, and the pictures?