Without the capacitor on the mysterious board - I can't obtain in the same conditions DC current or AC current (refering to the output coil 2. ) Strange. Why?

Because the capacitor is needed to give a PUNCH to the coil. The solar battery alone is not powerful enough. Therefore it needs the capacitance to build up a reservoir of power so that when the board pulses the energy stored in the cap is released, giving a much bigger "Punch" of power.

 

I disagree. A single coil can pull a magnet toward it. If it pulses on for a brief moment and the magnet is swinging past the coil it will continue on while the coil is de-energized. Next time the coil is energized the magnet, with its momentum, will again pull toward the coil.

So you mean that a solenoid is a motor? The single coil will pull the PM on one side and push it on the other, depending on polarity orientation. It can wobble but only rotate due to the wobble. And if it is constrained by any kind of bearing/shaft it can't even wobble.

 

So you mean that a solenoid is a motor?

Actually yes, it can be. But I think we might be getting off topic.

 

Because the capacitor is needed to give a PUNCH to the coil. The solar battery alone is not powerful enough. Therefore it needs the capacitance to build up a reservoir of power so that when the board pulses the energy stored in the cap is released, giving a much bigger "Punch" of power.

Hmm this means that if I use a higher capacitor on the mistery board (instead 10 V /470) I will obtain more power in the other side ?
THX ST

 

Probably not. The capacitor acts as a reservoir. The solar battery pumps energy into the capacitor at whatever rate it is capable of. Too small a reservoir and you don't get enough punch. Too big a reservoir and it takes too long to fill. The result with a larger cap will not give you any more power than the battery is capable of. Remember, the board is pulsing the power to the coil. So when the board is not pulsing, the energy produced by the battery is stored in the cap. Too small a cap and you don't have a big enough punch. Too big a cap and you don't gain anything but you can lose power based on the internal resistance of the cap. And yes, they do have ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance) depending on how big the charge is.

 

Probably not. The capacitor acts as a reservoir. The solar battery pumps energy into the capacitor at whatever rate it is capable of. Too small a reservoir and you don't get enough punch. Too big a reservoir and it takes too long to fill. The result with a larger cap will not give you any more power than the battery is capable of. Remember, the board is pulsing the power to the coil. So when the board is not pulsing, the energy produced by the battery is stored in the cap. Too small a cap and you don't have a big enough punch. Too big a cap and you don't gain anything but you can lose power based on the internal resistance of the cap. And yes, they do have ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance) depending on how big the charge is.

Interesting I think I can optimise by increasing just alittle beat the capacitor....succes rate estimated at 3 %
As you required I will upload in a few hours the last movie you requested- Ac voltage - in the mean times I made already some improvments - small metal cases.....

 

Low consumption motor improved - small metal cases.
No bridge- Ac voltage

thx St

 

52 pulses in 20 seconds - if I counted right - that's 2.6 pulses per second.

What happens if you take the ball out, put the two coils against each other and put something iron through the cores?

[edit] Second time I counted 56 pulses. Not easy to distinguish each pulse. 2.8 pulses per sec maybe. The timing all depends on the board. I also suspect you're not generating AC but a pulsed DC. Try just putting your capacitor across the LED and see what happens. You're not going to blow anything out, so don't worry about that. I suspect you may see a throbbing LED. You might need a resistor between the cap and one lead of the LED. Very low ohms. Maybe 5 ohms. Maybe no resistor at all. Experiment Experiment Experiment.

 

52 pulses in 20 seconds - if I counted right - that's 2.6 pulses per second.

What happens if you take the ball out, put the two coils against each other and put something iron through the cores?

[edit] Second time I counted 56 pulses. Not easy to distinguish each pulse. 2.8 pulses per sec maybe. The timing all depends on the board. I also suspect you're not generating AC but a pulsed DC. Try just putting your capacitor across the LED and see what happens. You're not going to blow anything out, so don't worry about that. I suspect you may see a throbbing LED. You might need a resistor between the cap and one lead of the LED. Very low ohms. Maybe 5 ohms. Maybe no resistor at all. Experiment Experiment Experiment.

thx tony ! tomorow I will try it !

 

Actually yes, it can be. But I think we might be getting off topic.

Not if you take the crank off of it. That is an electric engine not a motor.

 

OK Mr. Fussy-pants! It's not a motor. Semantics I suppose.

 

So far :
1 - if I use iron between coils 1. and 2. - nothing happent - the led is not glow. Tony I know that you are thinking the sphere is not important, I consider it the key component. ( I am thinking that in the phase 3 of the project to use a feromagnetic coil - for this I need to alternate poles .... )
2 - If I am connecting a capacitor to the led ( without bridge ) - spheres stops almost instant and the led blinking with it
3 - multimeter set om Ac voltage with the led connected - oscilating - between 0.6 V and max 1.93 V AC ( without bridge )
multimeter set on DC voltage with the led connected - oscilating - max 0.45 V (without bridge )
Conclusion : without bridge - the led blinking and is powered by AC voltage and current
ThX ST

 

@sciencetoolbar

FWIW, it is my sense that the dubiety (as regards your sincerity) seen here owes principally to your insistence that an electromechanical converter might exhibit greater efficiency than available from a well designed electronic system (please note the emphasis)...

What is strange about the presented toy ? ( for sure is not the output )
"With the poles oriented up/down, the field from the coil would provide zero rotational effect"

Intriguing though speculation upon interference by geomagnetism and/or the Coriolis effect may be --- I expect resolution of your 'enigma' is to be found in the prosaic --but Oh! So solid!-- realm of bearing performance (Spec. efficiency vs. gravitational orientation of the load)

Sincerely -- maintaining an open mind -- despite my well-nigh 'snarky' tone...

Best regards
HP

 

@sciencetoolbar

FWIW, it is my sense that the dubiety (as regards your sincerity) seen here owes principally to your insistence that an electromechanical converter might exhibit greater efficiency than available from a well designed electronic system (please note the emphasis)...



Intriguing though speculation upon interference by geomagnetism and/or the Coriolis effect may be --- I expect resolution of your 'enigma' is to be found in the prosaic --but Oh! So solid!-- realm of bearing performance (Spec. efficiency vs. gravitational orientation of the load)

Sincerely -- maintaining an open mind -- despite my well-nigh 'snarky' tone...

Best regards
HP

Hello HP !
I asked if there is another way to do that led glow at that input. We established that, a converter, step up booster, joule thief, transformer, etc will not start with the mentioned input. I am sure it is possible but untill now nobody tell us how it should be done. So I take the advantage of the experience of the members to make some improvments of the office toy which is spining and produce a tiny amount of energy to make a led glow ( I am looking forward for a constant glow, DC current ) What I am triyng to do now, is to see if there is possible to transfer ( because we all know that energy is transfered from one system to another - minus loses ) more energy to coil 2.
What is your opinion can I make some improvments or this is the END ?
thx ST

 

Regarding energy transfer :

mini solar panel transfers an amount of energy to the electric motor spinning the neodymium sphere weight 27 g + metal cases weight + screw weight + weigh of screw + nut weight ( for the screw ) , another amount of energy ( a very small one ) is transfered to the led through coil 2.
Resistances ( wires, coils, led, electric board, bridge )
Friction : glass + air resistance
thx ST

 

We established that, a converter, step up booster, joule thief, transformer, etc will not start with the mentioned input.

Indeed! It goes without saying that the proposed application is best realized via a small-signal --as opposed to 'standard' power conversion-- 'approach'... (e.g. certain Jfet oscillator configurations are amenable to high efficiency, very low EMF/power operation).

Also - please lose the electrolytic caps! Such are far too 'leaky' for application to ultra-low power systems...

Best regards and good luck!
HP

 

I have tested the the left side of the circuit ( mistery board ) , thx again tony ! a 16 V and 1000 u F capacitor and I observed that the speed of the sphere increased considerable.

 

I have tested the the left side of the circuit ••• a 16 V and 1000 u F capacitor and ••• the speed of the sphere increased considerable.

I honestly did not expect that result. Perhaps the maker of the dancing flower felt it was not necessary to gather that much energy during the off phase of the pulsing (mystery) board. Clearly a step in the right direction.

With such low voltages it's not important to increase the voltage of the capacitor(s). They need to be big enough to handle the voltage presented to them. The capacitance is how much energy they can hold (store) and deliver back. HP recommended losing the "Electrolytic" capacitors - and yes, that is clearly good advice. Look around in your stock of materials and see if you can come up with a cap that is rated similar to your 1000 µF. Given that you're working with some few volts at the most, the voltage rating does not need to be more than double what you are currently finding present at the solar battery. If you're seeing 2.5 volts then a 5 volt cap (if they make them like that) should do fine. I'm certainly not the expert on caps.

 

Regarding energy transfer :

mini solar panel transfers an amount of energy to the electric motor spinning the neodymium sphere weight 27 g + metal cases weight + screw weight + weigh of screw + nut weight ( for the screw ) , another amount of energy ( a very small one ) is transfered to the led through coil 2.
Resistances ( wires, coils, led, electric board, bridge )
Friction : glass + air resistance
thx ST

Then it seems the change should be to supply the solar energy to the LED first, then the "motor". I think your inconsequential losses are much bigger than you think. The energy input into making the sphere spin has to be much larger than the energy created in the second coil. If it isn't it brings the whole over unity thing in to play.

 

@shortbus: Already asked STB (ScienceToolBar) to try hooking the LED directly to the solar panel. It doesn't seem there's enough voltage/current to light the LED.