My take on masks is this. Almost no person wears the correct mask OR follows the correct medical protocol for using masks. But! Any mask is better than no mask at all. Doctors do not wear masks in sterile environments such as the surgical theater to protect themselves but to prevent contaminating the sterile environment. Masks serve dual purposes, to prevent an infected person from spreading it by aerosol ejection AND to act as a prophylactic for uninfected persons. Better to mask and suffer some discomfort than to infect other or become infected and suffer worse consequences than mask discomfort. IE Wear a mask please!

I wear a mask for the same reason I go to church. It might help.

 

My take on masks is this. Almost no person wears the correct mask OR follows the correct medical protocol for using masks. But! Any mask is better than no mask at all. Doctors do not wear masks in sterile environments such as the surgical theater to protect themselves but to prevent contaminating the sterile environment. Masks serve dual purposes, to prevent an infected person from spreading it by aerosol ejection AND to act as a prophylactic for uninfected persons. Better to mask and suffer some discomfort than to infect other or become infected and suffer worse consequences than mask discomfort. IE Wear a mask please!

Masks are strictly enforced in Oregon but there is still high levels of transmission and infection of the unvaccinated because delta variant is so damn contagious it has reduced the effectiveness of non-N95 cloth type masks to about ~11%. I wish it wasn't that low but that's what the science tells us it is.


https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0057100

Experimental investigation of indoor aerosol dispersion and accumulation in the context of COVID-19: Effects of masks and ventilation

The results demonstrate that the apparent exhalation filtration efficiency is significantly lower than the ideal filtration efficiency of the mask material. Nevertheless, high-efficiency masks, such as the KN95, still offer substantially higher apparent filtration efficiencies (60% and 46% for R95 and KN95 masks, respectively) than the more commonly used cloth (10%) and surgical masks (12%), and therefore are still the recommended choice in mitigating airborne disease transmission indoors. The results also suggest that, while higher ventilation capacities are required to fully mitigate aerosol build-up, even relatively low air-change rates (2 h−12 h−1) lead to lower aerosol build-up compared to the best performing mask in an unventilated space.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/08/210819124528.htm

A new study is highlighting a need for widespread use of better face masks and the importance of good ventilation to mitigate the spread of COVID-19 indoors.

What makes a clean/sterile environment? Clean air, ventilation and masks from a triad of aerosol protection. The ventilation part of the equation seems to be missing in most of the countermeasure discussions of indoor transmission. You need both a good mask and ventilation to significantly lower the risk of transmission. Even a N95 mask is less effective than proper air clean exchanges in the prevention of aerosol particle transmission.
https://www.keramida.com/blog/the-importance-of-ventilation-in-reducing-covid-19-transmission

An interactive visualization by The New York Times shows how increased ventilation in classrooms can help reduce the spread of airborne Coronavirus. The stunning visualization, based on a real New York City classroom, show how the lack of proper ventilation or open windows, even with social distancing and mask wearing, leads to a potentially very dangerous and contagious situation for anyone in that classroom if even one person in the room is infected. As the various scenarios demonstrated in the visualization show, protective measures must be considered regarding indoor air and implemented accordingly and alongside social distancing and mask wearing in order to reduce the potential for COVID-19 transmission.

 

But! Any mask is better than no mask at all....

i agree with everything but that statement. contaminated mask is not better... and reused masks tend to accumulate all kinds of things.

 

Of course a contaminated mask is not better.
You do not have to re-wear a face mask.

I asked you earlier , if you were in charge, how would you prove a Covid vaccine was safe and fit for purpose.??
E

 

i now reside in Toronto and while Covid seem to be under control and vaccination rates are higher than rest of the world, public health reports show less than impressive numbers. Here is an example from Ontario for the past 9 months. Note that 49.4% of cases are the unvaccinated people. so the other group including vaccinated and partially vaccinated accounts for (slightly) over 50%. btw the unvaccinated group also includes people that have been vaccinated 0-13 days before contracting Covid. if that group was excluded, numbers would look worse but so be it.

And for asymptomatic cases numbers are even worse. Infections among vaccinated or partially vaccinated account for more than 60% of cases.

if the Pfizer FDA approved vaccine (that is unavailable) and the one currently distributed and used one are really "the same thing", why did FDA not approve both?

btw. I am all for debate but posts calling up ridicule and off topic subjects are not appreciated. maybe move the to attempted humor or try to refrain from discussion. just saying...

 

And you join the ranks of the uninformed spreading misinformation with this post.

There are currently no FDA approved "vaccines" for Covid-19 available in the United States.

Please read this and become informed.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine

 

And you join the ranks of the uninformed spreading misinformation with this post.


Please read this and become informed.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine

He's not spreading "Misinformation", he's 100% accurate,
it is You Sir, that are misinformed.
I would never read anything produced by a governmental agency,
as they are corrupt to the core.
.
.
.

 

i now reside in Toronto and while Covid seem to be under control and vaccination rates are higher than rest of the world, public health reports show less than impressive numbers. Here is an example from Ontario for the past 9 months. Note that 49.4% of cases are the unvaccinated people. so the other group including vaccinated and partially vaccinated accounts for (slightly) over 50%. btw the unvaccinated group also includes people that have been vaccinated 0-13 days before contracting Covid. if that group was excluded, numbers would look worse but so be it.

And for asymptomatic cases numbers are even worse. Infections among vaccinated or partially vaccinated account for more than 60% of cases.
View attachment 247599
if the Pfizer FDA approved vaccine (that is unavailable) and the one currently distributed and used one are really "the same thing", why did FDA not approve both?

btw. I am all for debate but posts calling up ridicule and off topic subjects are not appreciated. maybe move the to attempted humor or try to refrain from discussion. just saying...

Those number are pretty good if you look at the total total population numbers instead of percentages (the absolute number of cases is not presented in the proper context). This type of table in a highly vaccinated population is misleading.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/20/1029...e-rate-fallacy-as-it-pertains-to-the-pandemic

AMANDA ARONCZYK, BYLINE: At the end of July, I went to Iceland for the same reason that lots of people have been travelling there. They've had very low COVID rates and very high vaccination rates. So Iceland said to potential tourists, come to Iceland, where you can pay big bucks to ride little horses. But as we are packing to go on our trip, there was this COVID spike there. And this was very concerning because most of the people getting infected were fully vaccinated. You might have heard similar worries about Israel or the U.K. or about that outbreak in Provincetown, Mass. Katrine Wallace, an epidemiologist at University of Illinois at Chicago, ran the Iceland numbers for me. She found that over one month this summer, 67% of COVID infections there were in people who were fully vaccinated, which sounds really bad.

KATRINE WALLACE: So when you first look at that, at first blush, you say, oh, that means most people that are vaccinated will end up getting COVID. So we shouldn't use the vaccine, right?

ARONCZYK: But that 67% does not mean that the vaccine isn't working. It's a misreading of what's actually happening.

WALLACE: It is just people committing the base rate fallacy. They're not considering the whole context of the data.

WALLACE: What I would advise is just anytime you see, like, X percent of this or, you know, five out of 10 that, I would just say, what's the broader context here? What are we talking about?

ARONCZYK: Because once you consider the base rate, you get a very different story.

 

Of course a contaminated mask is not better.
You do not have to re-wear a face mask.

so far nobody is checking for that and many masked people are wearing literally petri dish on their face. so if the main goal of wearing mask is to stop preventing spread to others, how does this help? so what is the point to force mask mandate and shut down economy?

I asked you earlier , if you were in charge, how would you prove a Covid vaccine was safe and fit for purpose.??

good question and .. i don't know. did not think of it but i guess it would be a really good idea to keep track of cases and start vaccinating some of similar populations and see how things compare after couple of weeks. that should show clear correlation between groups that are vaccinated and not vaccinated. if the people perish, autopsy should distinguish between cases due viral load and those with cloths etc. it would also depend on reliable tests that can be administered in large numbers, genetics labs may not have capacity for that and transporting samples is another risk factor. in order to isolate as many variables as possible (make them equal) - among two test groups. to evaluate other factors (mask etc) same could be tried with different groups. but like with everything, one should not only look at the absolute numbers but rather at rates (changes in numbers). slope of a tangent is more meaningful specially when numbers are too large or too small...

how would you do it?

 

He's not spreading "Misinformation", he's 100% accurate,
it is You Sir, that are misinformed.
I would never read anything produced by a governmental agency,
as they are corrupt to the core.
.
.
.

No, He is not correct. This no approval BS is a nonsensical, totally made up argument against vaccination.

 

And you join the ranks of the uninformed spreading misinformation with this post.


Please read this and become informed.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine

Of course it's misinformation. Some just want to live in an alternate universe where facts don't matter.

 

so far nobody is checking for that and many masked people are wearing literally petri dish on their face. so if the main goal of wearing mask is to stop preventing spread to others, how does this help? so what is the point to force mask mandate and shut down economy?



good question and .. i don't know. did not think of it but i guess it would be a really good idea to keep track of cases and start vaccinating some of similar populations and see how things compare after couple of weeks. that should show clear correlation between groups that are vaccinated and not vaccinated. if the people perish, autopsy should distinguish between cases due viral load and those with cloths etc. it would also depend on reliable tests that can be administered in large numbers, genetics labs may not have capacity for that and transporting samples is another risk factor. in order to isolate as many variables as possible (make them equal) - among two test groups. to evaluate other factors (mask etc) same could be tried with different groups.

how would you do it?

It's already been done,
Court demands for Isolated-Virus-Samples have resulted in the admission
that there are NO isolated-samples that can be produced.
Think about that for a minute.
.
.
.

 

Of course it's misinformation. Some just want to live in an alternate universe where facts don't matter.

Just because something is stated by a government agency does not make it a "fact".
How many times have You been lied to by a politician ?
.
.
.

 

exactly..

btw, in response to nsaspook, i think i was very open about what i know or believe. i also tried to argue those beliefs. i also question quality and accuracy of information published and conclusions derived from those. i believe that everyone is misinformed. statements like "here is an approval, that's good as gold" don't sway me. as already mentioned, approval is for a different product from one currently used. not to mention several other brands that are in circulation and have no approval.

 

Just because something is stated by a government agency does not make it a "fact".
How many times have You been lied to by a politician ?
.
.
.

This is just paranoia of some sort of global conspiracy to fool the public about vaccines. It would be funny if people weren't dying because of it.

 

exactly..

btw, in response to nsaspook, i think i was very open about what i know or believe. i also tried to argue those beliefs. i also question quality and accuracy of information published and conclusions derived from those. i believe that everyone is misinformed. statements like "here is an approval, that's good as gold" don't sway me. as already mentioned, approval is for a different product from one currently used. not to mention several other brands that are in circulation and have no approval.

Can't you see it's totally a strawman agreement designed to mislead you? Even if what you said was true (it's not) it changes absolutely nothing about the efficacy and safety of the current vaccines after many a billion doses have been administered.

 

This is just paranoia of some sort of global conspiracy to fool the public about vaccines. It would be funny if people weren't dying because of it.

What ever happened to people dying from the Flu ?
Have You happened to notice that there have been zero Flu deaths in the last year ?
In fact deaths from all of the usual maladies have all but disappeared.
.
.
.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...iases-make-reasoning-about-vaccines-difficult

When it comes to thinking about the likelihood of events in the world, humans are woefully lacking. Indeed, when we reason about likelihoods and probabilities, we’re susceptible to all manner of mistakes. Psychologists call these susceptibilities cognitive biases. Cognitive biases can lead to faulty thinking and bad decision-making, sometimes with life-and-death consequences.


One type of cognitive bias at play these days on social media, and even in traditional media, has to do with the likelihood of becoming ill from Covid-19 following vaccination. Psychologists call the source of this bias the base rate fallacy.

 

This is just paranoia of some sort of global conspiracy to fool the public about vaccines
So it's a Global Conspiracy that politicians lie ?
.
.
.

 

What ever happened to people dying from the Flu ?
Have You happened to notice that there have been zero Flu deaths in the last year ?
In fact deaths from all of the usual maladies have all but disappeared.
.
.
.

RE flu: No kidding.

It shows how incredibly contagious CV is compared to the flu virus. The mitigation's for COVID-19 are very effective in stopping flu transmission.
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/coronavirus.166679/post-1590091