Quite interesting regarding QC. What are you actually getting in your arm?

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ar...-over-levels-of-intact-mrna-in-pfizer-vaccine

Well whatever it was the last of it went in two weeks ago come tomorrow (Wednesday). Neither my wife or myself had any reaction to date. Beats the heck out of me.

Ron

 

From the Wikipedia article on RNA vaccines:







At this point there isn't much that CAN be done. We're still very far from a satisfactory technological solution to the problem.

So your proposing that the CV19 jabs we have are all experimental ,
and by your definition should not be taking .

Just interested, do you have a proposal for an alternative ?

 

So your proposing that the CV19 jabs we have are all experimental ,
and by your definition should not be taking .

The Covid19 vaccine is/has had a head start that isn't brought up much. The beginning of the vaccine came about back in the SARS1outbreak(2002-2004) it then got more study during the MERS-COV (2012) time frame. But since both went away fairly fast, the funding was dropped but the learning about them was not forgotten. When SARS-COV 19 was identified they used the finding of SARS1 and MERS to jump start the vaccine process for it.
https://jbiomedsci.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12929-020-00695-2

 

So your proposing that the CV19 jabs we have are all experimental ,

and by your definition should not be taking .

Just interested, do you have a proposal for an alternative ?

I've already answered that question. (Several times, actually.) Go back and reread my posts maybe?

 

The Covid19 vaccine is/has had a head start that isn't brought up much. The beginning of the vaccine came about back in the SARS1outbreak(2002-2004) it then got more study during the MERS-COV (2012) time frame. But since both went away fairly fast, the funding was dropped but the learning about them was not forgotten. When SARS-COV 19 was identified they used the finding of SARS1 and MERS to jump start the vaccine process for it.
https://jbiomedsci.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12929-020-00695-2

It depends on the type of vaccine. Traditional vaccines like the Russian and Chinese versions are not very experimental. The mRNA vaccines are still clearly experimental in nature even if they are safe and effective.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/new...vid-19-vaccine-safe-generates-immune-response
Experimental COVID-19 vaccine safe, generates immune response

An investigational vaccine, mRNA-1273, designed to protect against SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), was generally well tolerated and prompted neutralizing antibody activity in healthy adults, according to interim results published online today in The New England Journal of Medicine. The ongoing Phase 1 trial is supported by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), part of the National Institutes of Health. The experimental vaccine is being co-developed by researchers at NIAID and at Moderna, Inc. of Cambridge, Massachusetts. Manufactured by Moderna, mRNA-1273 is designed to induce neutralizing antibodies directed at a portion of the coronavirus “spike” protein, which the virus uses to bind to and enter human cells.

 

I've already answered that question. (Several times, actually.) Go back and reread my posts maybe?

Im sorry OXO , at 247 pages of posts, can you give us a clue as to your post number I should look at ,
Or may be you could give us a resume here as to your thoughts on what to do ?

Ta

 

Personally, I think the vaccines should have been offered to willing (and informed, and monitored) volunteers a year ago. Government dickery got in the way and delayed their use while millions died. We don't need that sort of "protection".

 

The mRNA vaccines are still clearly experimental in nature even if they are safe and effective.

I wasn't trying to say anything different than that. But the mRNA vaccines didn't just appear out of the blue, the idea of them has been around since SARS1, they just never went into full trial.

 

Personally, I think the vaccines should have been offered to willing (and informed, and monitored) volunteers

Isn't that the definition of a vaccine trial? The type that found out what we know works and what the vaccines in use went through?

Government dickery got in the way and delayed their use while millions died.

My first day back and I'll end up banned from the thread again. You should watch the whole video or read the transcript. It wasn't just her but all of the DR.s involved saying the same basic thing. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/26/opinions/deborah-birx-interview-filipovic/index.html

 

Isn't that the definition of a vaccine trial?

No, it's supplying something to the market to meet a need, without a bloated system in the way. Could it have been dangerous to the early adopters? Sure, but let the customers know the risks and let them decide how to manage them. We could have been done with this a year ago.

My first day back and I'll end up banned from the thread again. You should watch the whole video or read the transcript. It wasn't just her but all of the DR.s involved saying the same basic thing. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/26/opinions/deborah-birx-interview-filipovic/index.html

I don't see the relevance of that. One bureaucrat whining about some other bureaucrat. Get rid of them all. How dare they stick their noses in my health decisions.

 

Isn't that the definition of a vaccine trial? The type that found out what we know works and what the vaccines in use went through?



My first day back and I'll end up banned from the thread again. You should watch the whole video or read the transcript. It wasn't just her but all of the DR.s involved saying the same basic thing. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/26/opinions/deborah-birx-interview-filipovic/index.html

I'm currently in Facebook Jail. Apparently I offended someone.

Ron

 

I wasn't trying to say anything different than that. But the mRNA vaccines didn't just appear out of the blue, the idea of them has been around since SARS1, they just never went into full trial.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10...leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

It is a story that began three decades ago, with a little-known scientist who refused to quit.
Before messenger RNA was a multibillion-dollar idea, it was a scientific backwater. And for the Hungarian-born scientist behind a key mRNA discovery, it was a career dead-end.

Katalin Karikó spent the 1990s collecting rejections. Her work, attempting to harness the power of mRNA to fight disease, was too far-fetched for government grants, corporate funding, and even support from her own colleagues.

It all made sense on paper. In the natural world, the body relies on millions of tiny proteins to keep itself alive and healthy, and it uses mRNA to tell cells which proteins to make. If you could design your own mRNA, you could, in theory, hijack that process and create any protein you might desire — antibodies to vaccinate against infection, enzymes to reverse a rare disease, or growth agents to mend damaged heart tissue.

In 1990, researchers at the University of Wisconsin managed to make it work in mice. Karikó wanted to go further.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10...leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

Interesting backstory, to say the least.

Karikó moved on to the University of Pennsylvania, where she diligently searched for research funding. She applied for grants and hit up venture capitalists in New York City. No one would bite.

“They initially promised to give us money,” Karikó said of the venture capitalists, “but then they never returned my phone calls.”

After six years, her bosses at Penn were reportedly so frustrated by the lack of momentum that they cut her salary and demoted her.

“I thought of going somewhere else, or doing something else,” Karikó told Stat News. “I also thought maybe I’m not good enough, not smart enough. I tried to imagine: Everything is here, and I just have to do better experiments.”
A sympathetic colleague, and a move to biotech

Things didn’t look up until 1997, when colleague Drew Weissman got to Penn.

He and Karikó met over their department’s copy machine, per Wired, where they realized their shared interests and started working together. It took seven years, but the pair eventually figured out how to make mRNA therapy work.

In 2005, Karikó and Weissman published their groundbreaking study. The University of Pennsylvania licensed the technology and patented it. (Researchers’ patents are often held by the institutions where they work.)

Karikó stayed on at Penn for eight years, but was never reinstated her to the tenure track position she held before she was demoted.

“We are grateful for Dr. Karikó’s important contributions both during her time at Penn,” said university spokesperson Maccarthy, “where she continues to hold an appointment as an adjunct associate professor.” The school’s promo video about mRNA technology focuses on Weissman, mentioning Karikó only in passing.

In 2013, she gave up on the Ivy League institution and took a senior VP role at BioNTech, a pharma firm valued at almost $28 billion as of spring 2021. The company partnered with Pfizer to make the first COVID vaccine, with Karikó working as a key player.

Enigmatically enough, her partner just happens to be a former intern and fellow at NIH.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10...leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

Couldn't remember the researchers name that started the road to the development of mRNA. Or I would have linked to them instead of the one I did link too. But the out come is still the same, while the vaccine is now being used on Covid19 it's been in development for some time, and not just a new thing done in less than a year.

 

... it's been in development for some time, and not just a new thing done in less than a year.

That's the beauty of the technology. Once it's developed, you can create a new vaccine as fast as you can make the mRNA. I believe it took a couple days to make the vaccines now in our arms. Unfortunately, because of the year lag time imposed by regulators, no mRNA "updates" have taken place since then. We'll have to wait another year for improved versions.

 

https://www.deccanherald.com/intern...19-vaccines-the-world-badly-needs-974398.html

What rich countries call caution, poorer nations will experience as a devastating gamble with the survival of their citizens against Covid-19

Safety worries about the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines have jeopardized inoculation campaigns far beyond the United States, undercutting faith in two sorely needed shots and threatening to prolong the coronavirus pandemic in countries th...
...
African health officials have reacted with fury at the breezy reassurances of American and European lawmakers that people denied the AstraZeneca or Johnson & Johnson shots could be given another vaccine. In much of the world, there are no other vaccines.

Health officials fear that any setbacks in vaccinations could sow the seeds of the next calamitous outbreak, one that deluges hospitals and exports new mutations around the world. In those places, doctors said, the math is obvious: Many more people will die without the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines than with them.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/recent-rise-in-u-s-covid-19-cases-driven-by-younger-people-11618219801

Younger people who haven’t been vaccinated are helping drive a rise in new Covid-19 cases, health officials are finding.

Five states—Michigan, New York, Florida, Pennsylvania and New Jersey—account for some 42% of newly reported cases. In Michigan, adults aged 20 to 39 have the highest daily case rates, new data show. Case rates for children aged 19 and under are at a record, more than quadruple from a month ago. There were 301 reported school outbreaks as of early last week, up from 248 the week prior, according to state data.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/recent-rise-in-u-s-covid-19-cases-driven-by-younger-people-11618219801

Because it was done backwards. To solve this, a vaccine was needed to stop transmission and it needed to be given to thise who are out in the community (people who are still working) first. Why was it done by age I have no idea.

 

Because it was done backwards. To solve this, a vaccine was needed to stop transmission and it needed to be given to thise who are out in the community (people who are still working) first. Why was it done by age I have no idea.

I understand thee reason for vaccine by age, was the hospitalisation rate difference between age groups.

If hospitals became totally over loaded, then the percentage that could be saved in hospitals would drop, i.e the death per million would increase , just because the hospitals could not cope. This I understand was a cliff edge effect not linear.

So aim was to keep the numbers that would need hospitalisation down,

That's also why it was statistic lay best to offer most the 1st of two jabs, even if it meant that the second jab was delayed ,

Its all down to triage,

Given limited resources, what's the best way to deploy them to save the maximum number of people.

Not a job I would ever want to do on such a scale,

 

Why the J&J vaccine is having problems, it is talcum powder based.