Only if we all agree that they are indeed 100% effective! And yet much of the science indicates otherwise. Heck, even anecdotally. How many people have YOU heard of being vaccinated against something and then just weeks or months later catching that very same virus (or perhaps a variant of it)?!

Our bodies only seem to be able to "remember" viral markers for a fixed period of time. Couple that with the fact that viruses mutate very quickly, and the end result is that vaccines are unfortunately quite limited in their effectiveness. THAT is why so many object to them.

What a ridiculous position. No vaccine is 100% effective. Using that as a requirement before accepting an amelioration of a pandemic is a murderous position. I expect more from anyone on this site.

Because one person might die, you accept the deaths of tens of thousand others?

 

An interesting discussion, but I'm afraid it would be a hijack of this thread to reply.

yeah... and a discussion of this type is useless without some beer to lubricate it with...

 

Ideologies can be adjusted and changed, and even disposed of... but can society make do without government of any sort? ... Personally, I see blaming "government" in general as being way too broad.

Indeed. At my site there was an outbreak at long term care facility back in January. This spiraled out if control and resulted in a targeted vaccination campaign for the whole town (about 12k people, out of which they said 9k got the vaccine). As of last week we are in second outbreak in the same facility and an outbreak in the hospital.

More questions:

- no definition of "case" has ever been given
- public health officer decides what is an "outbreak".
- contact tracing is virtually non existant, they contact people 10 days after they were told by their friends about exposure.

So when we have a gigantic failure of public system that is supposed to be responsible for public health. At which point each indiviual has complete right to take over their own decision making.

Well exactly. No clear policy because what drives this whole thing are special interest groups. All of whom want you very much to take their vaccines ad infinitum. Meanwhile, worldwide shutdowns caused by the resulting arbitrary policies drive small businesses and others into poverty. Ask those lobbyists (Moderna, Gates, etc) if they care. Why should they? Their making money hand over fist!

 

Their effectiveness is about to be tested in the real world, and with real consequences... but wouldn't you agree that even flawed vaccines are better than nothing?

Well exactly. No clear policy because what drives this whole thing are special interest groups. All of whom want you very much to take their vaccines ad infinitum. Meanwhile, worldwide shutdowns caused by the resulting arbitrary policies drive small businesses and others into poverty. Ask those lobbyists (Moderna, Gates, etc) if they care. Why should they? Their making money hand over fist!

Not just that. I am watching real estate spiraling out of control as rates are kept artificially low. Lumber has skyrocketed and try and there are waitlists for all contractora to fix anything. In a year of pademic housing prices have managed to go up up up somehow. Nothing makes sense anymore.

I have to do my roof this year and after careful consideration decided to do it myself with help of a friend. Neither of us are in construction but we have been tackling my house issues one problem at a time for 2 years now and figured we can read instructions...

 

I understood the second amendment was to allow ownership and carrying of guns for the security of a free state,

But thats another question...

Yes and we should stay on topic which is COVID.

Ron

 

What a ridiculous position. No vaccine is 100% effective. Using that as a requirement before accepting an amelioration of a pandemic is a murderous position. I expect more from anyone on this site. Because one person might die, you accept the deaths of tens of thousand others?

You're beginning to sound a bit like a woke activist actually. Again, there is still no solid evidence that these things actually "work". Also (and again) YOU HAVE THE CHOICE as to what to do to ensure the health of yourself and your loved ones.

Here's a thought. My great-grandfather use to play golf with Bush (senior). One thing Pampa would always say about HW was that he truly believed in FREEDOM. He stood for it, fought for it, and wished it upon others. That is the kind of leadership that we need right now. We need a return to CONSERVATIVE values. The response should be proportional to the risk, and that is where we have failed miserably. Bad measures in, bad result out...

 

Not just that. I am watching real estate spiraling out of control as rates are kept artificially low. Lumber has skyrocketed and try and there are waitlists for all contractora to fix anything. In a year of pademic housing prices have managed to go up up up somehow. Nothing makes sense anymore.

I have to do my roof this year and after careful consideration decided to do it myself with help of a friend. Neither of us are in construction but we have been tackling my house issues one problem at a time for 2 years now and figured we can read instructions...

Supply chains are in a disarray and production is way down. Real estate vacancies grow as homeless rates skyrocket, which means layoffs are growing. The restrictions have had an hugely negative impact on industry.

 

Virus - one death is one death too many
Vaccine - one death is a sacrifice we all should be willing to make

Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

Skip a few...

Reports of old people dying after Pfeizer in Norway - brushed off

Blood clots from Astrazeneca - stop the vaccine... Even though it seems to be working in England without killing people.

Has anyone actually sat down and did a "sanity check" because it is badly needed.

 

Death is a certainty, death by COVID-19 is not. I worry about the things I can control.

 

An interesting graph:

​

 

FDA will say yes. But please remember the full trial is ongoing right now to be completed for Pfeizer in 2023 and Moderna in 2022. The actual trials have not been completed. The full effects of vaccines are not known to anyone.

It has been proven that autoimmune diseases are on the rise because of vaccination schedules. Questions do need to be asked.

Slightly different example - what are you gaining by smothering yourself in hand sanitizer? Washing hands with soap is the best way to kill germs. Hand sanitizers are causing skin issues in many hospital workers leading to eczema and psoriasis, these are impossible to get under control once they start. Allergies as well.

But, COVID is real. I strongly believe we would have been better off if a year ago there were no closures and by now most would have been immune. Obviously vulnerable needed protection. Like it or not virus mutations will win out. I will not be taking this vaccine yearly, I am too young to do that to myself. The way I see it we are taking further steps to weaken our ability to survive.

Humanity in the future - artificial reproduction, hooked up to computer living in a sterile environment. That is what it is looking right now. So basically "the matrix"...

p.s. i did take the first shot of pfeizer despite all of this because i have aging grandmothers that I have not seen in a long time and am hoping to try and see them. My province extended time between the shots to 4 months

Hi @justtrying

you say " proven that autoimmune diseases are on the rise because of vaccination schedules "

Sorry , I could not find any proof on that , could you provide any references please as Im interested
I can see lots of reports of correlation,
but correlation is not proof.

As one of my old professors said, people with yellow teeth in the 60's had a higher incidence of dying from lung cancers.
That did not mean that yellow teeth caused cancer, or cancer caused yellow teeth, it meant that more people who smoked had yellow teeth.

The other one I keep referring to in class, is carl saggen, if you were an alien and pointed a camera at the earth, you would conclude that cars are the top primate, whilst humans are an infection

Proof is a high hurdle to get over.

Same goes for all medicines,
Proving them as "safe" is impossible, look at aspirin, As I understand it, if it was invented now it would not be allowed as it has too many side effects !

 

More importantly, why should anyone be required to take part in some experimental therapy? Anyone can simply wear a mask, practice social distancing, or take whatever other precautions they choose to protect themselves. We are ALL responsible for our OWN health. Taking away the freedoms of others is not the answer here.

Were talking about CV19 jabs ?
do you call them experimental ?
if so, what more would you have done to make them to be "none experimental"

 

An interesting graph:

View attachment 235187​

That is a fantastic graph,
Can I ask the source please so I can re use it .

 

Were talking about CV19 jabs ?

do you call them experimental ?

From the Wikipedia article on RNA vaccines:

Before 2020, no mRNA technology platform (drug or vaccine) had been authorized for use in humans, so there was a risk of unknown effects. The 2020 coronavirus pandemic required faster production capability of mRNA vaccines, made them attractive to national health organisations, and led to debate about the type of initial authorization mRNA vaccines should get (including emergency use authorization or expanded access authorization) after the eight-week period of post-final human trials.

if so, what more would you have done to make them to be "none experimental"

At this point there isn't much that CAN be done. We're still very far from a satisfactory technological solution to the problem.

 

Were talking about CV19 jabs ?
do you call them experimental ?
if so, what more would you have done to make them to be "none experimental"

ALL medical intervention is experimental. No medical intervention is perfected to the point of being beyond future improvement as more data comes in. With enough data showing "safe and effective", we agree the experiment can be expanded to the general population, that's all. The experimenting never stops.

 

That is a fantastic graph,
Can I ask the source please so I can re use it .

Sorry, but I copied it from a LinkedIn post that I can't find anymore. If I see it again, I promise I'll post the link to it.

 

hola cm,
Check out.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1040079/life-expectancy-united-states-all-time/
E

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a...lear-that-its-safer-to-be-outside/ar-BB1fB80J


The photos of Clearwater Beach, Fla., went viral last spring: people crowded on the sand, seemingly unconcerned about the deadly new contagion coursing across the world. Local officials, accused of fueling a public health crisis, quickly shut 35 miles of county beaches and left them closed for weeks.

What a difference a year makes. The beaches were even busier this year, but officials say there were no talks of closure. There was also far less outcry.

And with good reason, according to many scientists and public health experts, who say that the outdoor spaces now warming under spring sun should be viewed as havens in the battle against a stubborn virus and restriction-induced fatigue. For more than a year, the vast majority of documented coronavirus clusters have been linked to indoor or indoor-outdoor settings — households, meatpacking plants, nursing homes and restaurants. Near-absent are examples of transmission at beaches and other open spaces where breezes disperse airborne particles, distancing is easier, and humidity and sunlight render the coronavirus less viable.

Beaches and parks “are some of the safest places you can gather,” said Linsey Marr, an expert on airborne virus transmission at Virginia Tech. “Outdoors now is even safer than before, because we have more people who are vaccinated and who have already had covid-19.”

 

Hi @justtrying

you say " proven that autoimmune diseases are on the rise because of vaccination schedules "

Sorry , I could not find any proof on that , could you provide any references please as Im interested
I can see lots of reports of correlation,
but correlation is not proof.

As one of my old professors said, people with yellow teeth in the 60's had a higher incidence of dying from lung cancers.
That did not mean that yellow teeth caused cancer, or cancer caused yellow teeth, it meant that more people who smoked had yellow teeth.

The other one I keep referring to in class, is carl saggen, if you were an alien and pointed a camera at the earth, you would conclude that cars are the top primate, whilst humans are an infection

Proof is a high hurdle to get over.

Same goes for all medicines,
Proving them as "safe" is impossible, look at aspirin, As I understand it, if it was invented now it would not be allowed as it has too many side effects !

It is not something that is in dispute anymore.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5607155/

Feel free to research in more detail. About correlation vs causation - You can argue that diet does not "cause" cancer, but prior to coming to N. America where microwave dinners and processed food became norm long time ago I knew of 1 person with cancer. Here it is of epidemic proportions. To me the issue is clear - life style and diet. As this lifestyle spreads, the whole world is getting sicker. But that is just anecdotal observation.

 

Quite interesting regarding QC. What are you actually getting in your arm?

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ar...-over-levels-of-intact-mrna-in-pfizer-vaccine