The EM inductive effect is not restricted just to those points in that winding immediately adjacent to the permanent magnets of the core (although it is important that every vertical component of the winding does abut the core PM at some point; in fact, each successive component is adjacent to a PM component incrementally shifted in latitude and longitude, so to speak. Do you see that?).

If you have been at this for 30 years , you should have a better explanation of this than what you say. You are making things up to suit your ideas. How exactly does induction take place outside of the PM field? If this was the case a refrigerator with those little magnets on it would be making electric.

dB/dt will be somewhat greater than expected due to the changing obliquity of the lines of force arising between the PMs and the stator coils through which much of the winding effectively passes. Imagination is necessary here; you have to imagine the magnetic propeller as a kind of lever within the effect, like any propeller (like a sail or a screw), moreover behaving continuously in the same direction of rotation

There is a dramatic change in the direction of components of EMF in the winding in the vicinity of the core PM, and a complete flip at certain points.

More gobbledygook. You say, "somewhat greater than expected due to the changing obliquity of the lines of force arising between the PMs and the stator coils through which much of the winding effectively passes" But how does that happen when the PMs are fixed with regard to the windings?

You say, "(unlike conventional loop AC generators knocking the copper back and forth like a row-boat)." You do know that the windings in a alternator are what is called distributed" don't you? The windings are not in a single notch in the stator, but distributed over many of the notches in a pattern, so don't know what you mean about them not being oblique.

because the winding is singular and progressive, and is exposed continuously to a potentially EM inductive effect, all these components of inductance will add up, or integrate, to create a voltage wave which is quite distinct from AC generated conventionally

Since the PMs move with the windings and the EMs are only on momentarily to make the PM move the rotor and there is no magnetically active cores inductance will be little or none at all.

Just leave the physics, as outlandish as it might seem on the face of it -- it isn't really much of a stretch -- and all the rest of the apparatus to me will you

How exactly does that help you? If you have been doing work on this for 30 years with no one giving constructive feedback, which while you may not see it that way is what I'm trying to do, how will you get to an end? You can chase rainbows and unicorns all you want.

 

It sure would be nice if a certain contributing expert were to help with the question at hand rather than fixating on
the eventual use. The TS has alteady stated that they are not here to talk about the eventual application.

 

It sure would be nice if a certain contributing expert were to help with the question at hand rather than fixating on
the eventual use. The TS has alteady stated that they are not here to talk about the eventual application.

All you need to do is ask. But I thought this was a forum based on science??? It has gotten farther and farther from that over the last few years. This is the ONLY site that allows this fringe "science" that I can find. Can you honestly say that you think an electrical coil/winding can or does act like a propeller, sail or screw? Why other than AAC is this theory/project only on Wordpress.com, where you can claim anything?

And for the record, I have helped him understand half bridge drivers and how they are used to make H-bridges.

 

As always, I appreciate your contributions. but now you and we are dragging this thread off topic.

 

If you have been at this for 30 years , you should have a better explanation of this than what you say. You are making things up to suit your ideas. How exactly does induction take place outside of the PM field? If this was the case a refrigerator with those little magnets on it would be making electric.

ANSWER: The EM induction is occurring because the copper winding is passing through a dynamically changing field between the PMs in the rotor and the external EMs in the stator.

More gobbledygook. You say, "somewhat greater than expected due to the changing obliquity of the lines of force arising between the PMs and the stator coils through which much of the winding effectively passes" But how does that happen when the PMs are fixed with regard to the windings?

ANSWER: Nothing is 'fixed'; there is a continuously changing magnetic field, elaborating between the PM core (a helical structure, in the form of a 'magnetic propeller') and the 12 CONTINUOUSLY operating field coils, through which the winding passes.

You say, "(unlike conventional loop AC generators knocking the copper back and forth like a row-boat)." You do know that the windings in a alternator are what is called distributed" don't you? The windings are not in a single notch in the stator, but distributed over many of the notches in a pattern, so don't know what you mean about them not being oblique.

ANSWER: This is NOT a conventional loop generator (nor is obliquity critical to the function of those generators; more likely a nuisance). There is ONE singular winding CONTINUOUSLY exposed to a changing magnetic field throughout its entirety. There is NO OFF TIME for the copper; so that the principle of alternation would be -- if I'm correct -- achieved through a mechanism which requires a deeper view of traditional QM than I can go into here.

Since the PMs move with the windings and the EMs are only on momentarily to make the PM move the rotor and there is no magnetically active cores inductance will be little or none at all.

ANSWER: The EMs are NOT on only momentarily; they are CONSTANTLY on, but their polarities must periodically switch in order to attract and then repel the PMs of the magnetic core, to and from them. Pull, push, pull, push.

How exactly does that help you? If you have been doing work on this for 30 years with no one giving constructive feedback, which while you may not see it that way is what I'm trying to do, how will you get to an end? You can chase rainbows and unicorns all you want.

And maybe that's what I'm doing too -- but what if there really is a pot of hydrogen gas or whatever at the end that Rainbow Serpent (which is the Creator in Australian legend). I appreciate your concern, but I really don't need criticism of the basic idea; nor can the experiment be reduced to feasible components. The only way to determine its validity is to perform it, and all that needs is a switch.

The entire conception was formulated 30 years ago in the space of about a month, in 3 distinct stages. At the time, I barely knew what an electromagnet or generator was. Nevertheless, there it was, full and complete in my mind, winding and everything. There was no internet, only the local library to learn basic electrical theory, so I spent quite a few years trying to understand what was clear and unchanging in my mind, and still is. I don't need any guidance or feedback about it (although my father is quite a brilliant fellow, and a kind of engineer, unlike me, so his thoughts or impressions were always welcome: you know, he advised me to build a really small prototype, a miniature etc.).

Because I was extremely busy doing other things, and still am, it took long while to build the prototype you see in the pictures. What has always been necessary though is some sort of switch of the type I've been asking about. And that's all that has been delaying the performance of this experiment, apart from the 15 year hiatus I took living and traveling continuously in Asia, China, India and so on.

The original plan was a set of commutating plates in the DC circuit to the electromagnets which by the way are, to reiterate, ON CONTINUOUSLY; but that electromechanical switch just wouldn't function. So, finally, a couple of years ago, I decided to use an electronic switch. Voila, here I am.

Alright. So now I don't really want to talk about this any more Shortbus. If you're genuinely intrigued, have a closer look at the blogspot, the pictures at least). In the meanwhile, I'm going to go ahead with the IR2110 half-bridges and the H-Bridge modules I already have, and get this thing done. Fortunately there are a couple of decent computer engineers in the family who can help me with the MCU side of it. Thanks again.

Quote: ''Sometimes Gobbledy-Gook is actually Gookledy-Gob; you just have to look at it the right way round''... Zog from the Planet Margo [from the story by Kilgore Trout, aka Kurt Vonnegut Jr., ''Breakfast of Champions''].

 

As always, I appreciate your contributions. but now you and we are dragging this thread off topic.

I have to disagree with that. He brought his project into the mix, posted it's link, in responce to lowQcab.

 

I think this entire thread is quite silly after listening to the "Word Salad" explanations offered
as theoretical "operating principles".
But to each his own.
This project will go nowhere as presented, so I now, personally,
deem this pursuit to be an entertaining waste of time.

"AC Motor" vs "DC Motor" is a major source of confusion by the thread starter.
This proposed contraption can not function on its own without some sort of "Commutation", or,
a rotating magnetic field such as in the case of a 3-phase motor.
And BTW, a 3-phase motor can operate with square-wave inputs,
(what the thread starter is referring to as "DC", as opposed to 3-phase AC).

"Visions" and "Dreams" most definitely do occur, however,
the accurate interpretation of these is quite often next to impossible.

Since the frequency that this device will operate at has been revealed to be very low ........
IGBTs have no advantage, use MOSFETs.
For a simple, direct/isolated, low frequency, Micro-Controller to MOSFET interface,
use a FDA215 chip, it requires only ~10ma @ 2.5V input from the Micro-Controller,
with no other external circuitry, and does not require any other power supply connection.
( I'm assuming the MC can supply 10ma, if it can't, a single external Transistor might be required )

This chip will be, relatively speaking, "very slow", depending upon the Gate Capacitance of the chosen FETs,
but it will be plenty fast for ~500-hz switching, in fact,
the slow speed will tend to lessen any problems with generated noise and oscillations.
Turn off time is roughly ~100 times faster than turn on time, so "shoot-through" should not be an issue.

Happy Trails .......

 

Alright then LQC ( @LowQCab ), can you recommend a MOSFET capable of handling 50A at 12V [Vds 12V], since 50A is what is currently required for the EMs; and further, since reversing 50A in these EM coils will generate extremely large voltage spikes [back EMF], MOSFETs capable of dealing with that effect in an H-Bridge configuration.

I looked hard for a prefabricated H-Bridge module at the start of all this, and the only ones I could find which seemed suitable were 'Vincotech' modules with IGBTs and flyback diodes incorporated. Never mind though; if I were correctly advised about power MOSFETS suitable for this application, reversing a large current in field coils at up to 8Hz, I'm sure I could try to build my own H-Bridge from scratch, now that I've learned how to solder.

Although I'd rather not go into it any further here, the first aim is to create a rotating magnetic field in the 12 stator field coils; that's the purpose of the switch. The mechanics of 3-phase motors etc. have nothing to do with any of this; and no commutation of any sort is required either to drive the PM core (since this is being driven by the rotating magnetic field) or in relation to any current generated in the winding, which would, should it arise, be conducted through a brush/sleeve assembly mounted on the axle (which you can see in the photos).

I understand the skepticism of those unfamiliar with idea -- I sometimes share it myself -- but it really is all fairly straightforward. Continuously DC powered field coils are driving a magnetic core shaped like a helical propeller around on an axle, and because a single winding mounted on that rotor is being exposed in its entirety to a constantly yet regularly changing dynamic magnetic field (arising between the core and the external EMs), some current might be expected to be generated in that winding. I wonder what sort of current it might be.

There is no confusion on my part about the distinction between AC and DC. My supposition is that some sort of AC will be generated in the winding, that is all. Thank you for your impressions.

 

Have a look here. I am sure you can find similar parts at RS Componets but I am having trouble with their site at the moment.

Most large distributors should have similar parts. This is my favorite supplier in Thailand, so the prices are given in Thai Baht, which you can multiply by 20 to find the price in Australian cents.

 

Here ya go .....
Have fun !!!
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.
.

 

Here ya go .....
Have fun !!!
.
.
.View attachment 229912

Didn't you forget something?

 

Oh yeah,
the price of the FETs is around ~$5.oo each,
and keep the leads shorted together until the circuit is completely soldered,
to prevent accidental static electricity discharge from possibly destroying the FET Gate inputs.
FETs MUST BE insulated from the Heat Sink with Thermal-Pad Insulators.

The CL520 full p/n is CL520N3-G-ND, it is a 20ma Current Regulator, ~$0.50 each .

The 2.2K Resistor can be replaced with an additional CL520 Current Regulator,
but this will probably be of questionable value, but I like the idea anyway .

The 22 Ohm Resistor can be replaced with a BA17810T-ND, fixed 10 Volt, Voltage Regulator, ~$1.65 each,
This could be advantageous if the Power Supply is weak or noisy, or if the Motor creates a lot of hash/spikes .
With a Regulated Input Voltage for the Control Circuitry,
all 3 Current Regulators could be replaced with appropriately sized Resistors,
but the Current Regulators provide great protection to all the LEDs, and insure consistent performance .

4- 8-Pin DIP Sockets for the Isolators, and one for the Op-Amp, ED3108-ND $0.50 each .

Proto-Board to build it on, 1738-1005-ND ~$3.oo .

Fee for my services, $2,500.oo, a bargain at half the price !!!
.
.

 

Have a look here. I am sure you can find similar parts at RS Componets but I am having trouble with their site at the moment.

Most large distributors should have similar parts. This is my favorite supplier in Thailand, so the prices are given in Thai Baht, which you can multiply by 20 to find the price in Australian cents.

Forgive me Dick: I thought I should correct your method of conversion lest I go broke. If there are 23 Baht to the Australian dollar, then one must multiply a price in Baht by 100/23 to find it in Australian cents. Thanks for the contact.

 

The discussion of how the gate drive circuit works has been moved to https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/floating-mosfet-gate-drive-how-does-it-work.176542/ Please resume discussion of the subject there to that @james31207 can resume getting help with his project.

@james31207 I'm just trying to help the depressed Thai economy : -)