Yes. That shows that the signal from the doors changes:

1. from "open" to "Ground" when ANY door is opened
2. from "Ground" to "open" when ALL doors are closed

So...the door signal should connect to the -Door Trigger input on the alarm module.
The -Door Trigger is the "Green" wire on the Alarm module wiring harness.

Test for -Trigger:
When any door is open:
The -Trigger should change from Open to Ground.

Connect the +meter lead to +12v and connect the -meter lead to the -Trigger on the alarm module.
When all the doors are closed, the meter reading should be "floating".
When any door is open, the meter reading should be "+12".

Meanwhile...
Can you post the portion of the schematic that shows the rest of the door wiring? I want to see what else the door switches are connect to...

Sure

 

The doors are arming and the alarm is going off as it should. Don't know why the difference all of the sudden. Here are the results of the test. With the meter connected and the doors closed the meter does float and with the door open or doors open I get 13.66v this was with the engine running. The wipers are the same they will not park. Here is the info for them. I did the test from the flow chart and I will do them again. I've tried two different wiper control switches plus the original one. I installed a remanufactured motor that has a new park mechanism but made no difference. Do you have any suggestions? When I put the interior panels back on and tested the alarm it still would not trigger by the doors again . Also, as I moved the receiver module the alarm would go off/activate so I will take time to find what wire is causing trouble. I noticed that the receiver module does give me trouble when I try to stuff it up in the tight space. Thanks

 

One thing to check... Check for voltage between your ground wire for your radio and battery ground terminal on the battery with wipers on.. If your wipers still aren't right there's really no point spending time on the alarm itself just yet.

 

I will do that. Thanks

 

The doors are arming and the alarm is going off as it should. Don't know why the difference all of the sudden. Here are the results of the test. With the meter connected and the doors closed the meter does float and with the door open or doors open I get 13.66v this was with the engine running.

OK. The door signal seems to be working properly.
However, I do not think the ignition key should come into play. The Alarm system should always have a constant 12V to its power terminals regardless if the key is off or on. Otherwise, if the key is off, the alarm won't work.

The wipers are the same they will not park. Here is the info for them. I did the test from the flow chart and I will do them again. I've tried two different wiper control switches plus the original one. I installed a remanufactured motor that has a new park mechanism but made no difference. Do you have any suggestions? When I put the interior panels back on and tested the alarm it still would not trigger by the doors again . Also, as I moved the receiver module the alarm would go off/activate so I will take time to find what wire is causing trouble. I noticed that the receiver module does give me trouble when I try to stuff it up in the tight space. Thanks

I suggest you open a new message thread to troubleshoot the wiper problem since its unrelated to alarm issue.

 

OK. The door signal seems to be working properly.
However, I do not think the ignition key should come into play. The Alarm system should always have a constant 12V to its power terminals regardless if the key is off or on. Otherwise, if the key is off, the alarm won't work.



I suggest you open a new message thread to troubleshoot the wiper problem since its unrelated to alarm issue.

Ok, I will do that. If your referring to the 13. something voltage yesterday I had the engine on to charge the battery as I noticed I had the interior bulbs in place. Other than that I not sure what you mean with ignition Thanks

 

I suggest you open a new message thread to troubleshoot the wiper problem since its unrelated to alarm issue.

A car starts exhibiting multiple apparently nonsensical ground-related issues and you think they're unrelated? I guess I shouldn't be surprised considering:

I do not think the ignition key should come into play. The Alarm system should always have a constant 12V to its power terminals regardless if the key is off or on.

A "12V" automotive system will be closer to 14V while the engine is running.


@John La you could have had this fixed days ago.

 

A car starts exhibiting multiple apparently nonsensical ground-related issues and you think they're unrelated? I guess I shouldn't be surprised considering:


A "12V" automotive system will be closer to 14V while the engine is running.


@John La you could have had this fixed days ago.

Help the TS instead of trolling!!

 

Help the TS instead of trolling!!

I've tried several times, provided the only experience-driven input in this thread, and just get ignored as if I weren't even here. Trolling is all I've got left to offer.

 

I somewhat agree with stantor which lead to asking about the wipers. Ground issues will cause all kinds of strange problems that make absolutely no sense at all. I always start with original equipment problems first and then aftermarket.

 

I somewhat agree with stantor which lead to asking about the wipers. Ground issues will cause all kinds of strange problems that make absolutely no sense at all. I always start with original equipment problems first and then aftermarket.

That is a Ground issue, the doors pull to ground and self parking on wipers use ground to latch in stop, i would retest ground to the chassis.

I tested the - of the battery to the starter area ground and it was great. Seems these ground points are some what hard to find then again I'm new to testing them. I don't believe the alarm issue has anything to do with the wiper issue. But if it does is there a way to ground the wiper circuit out side of it's factory installed ground?

 

But if it does is there a way to ground the wiper circuit out side of it's factory installed ground?

Sure, run a temporary wire form the body of the wiper to the negative battery post.

I have to agree with Strantor, most times in older cars accessory problem can and will be traced to bad grounds. And some times the grounding points aren't even close to where they should logically be.

 

I tested the - of the battery to the starter area ground and it was great. Seems these ground points are some what hard to find then again I'm new to testing them. I don't believe the alarm issue has anything to do with the wiper issue. But if it does is there a way to ground the wiper circuit out side of it's factory installed ground?

Testing grounds with a DMM is not going to yield any meaningful data; for that you need a 4-wire kelvin milliohmmeter. When you got a "great" result testing from the battery to the starter, what value did you read exactly? <1Ω? <0.1Ω <0.0001Ω? What's the resolution of that DMM? Consider that a typical starter can draw hundreds of amps, but for easy math let's say yours only draws 100A, and you've just measured the ground resistance to be 0.1Ω with your DMM. This seems "good" right? basically zero? Let's assume that your DMM reports accurately and the resistance really is precisely 0.1000Ω. Now when you pass 100A through that 0.1000Ω resistance, it is going to drop (100.0A*0.1000Ω=) 10.0V. 10V dropped across that "great" ground connection and only 2V dropped across the starter. In order to say you've got a "great" ground, you need to be able to say that your ground is 0.0025Ω and will only drop (100A*.0025Ω=) a quarter of a volt when the starter is pulling full load. Can your DMM confirm this? I don't think any DMM can. So stop wasting time with the DMM and just fix your grounds whether they need it or not. Even if you have a 4-wire Kelvin milliohmmeter, the test takes almost as long as just fixing the ground as I originally described. There is no harm in fixing grounds that don't "need" fixing. You can consider it collateral preventive maintenance carried out in the course of corrective maintenance.

 

Testing grounds with a DMM is not going to yield any meaningful data; for that you need a 4-wire kelvin milliohmmeter. When you got a "great" result testing from the battery to the starter, what value did you read exactly? <1Ω? <0.1Ω <0.0001Ω? What's the resolution of that DMM? Consider that a typical starter can draw hundreds of amps, but for easy math let's say yours only draws 100A, and you've just measured the ground resistance to be 0.1Ω with your DMM. This seems "good" right? basically zero? Let's assume that your DMM reports accurately and the resistance really is precisely 0.1000Ω. Now when you pass 100A through that 0.1000Ω resistance, it is going to drop (100.0A*0.1000Ω=) 10.0V. 10V dropped across that "great" ground connection and only 2V dropped across the starter. In order to say you've got a "great" ground, you need to be able to say that your ground is 0.0025Ω and will only drop (100A*.0025Ω=) a quarter of a volt when the starter is pulling full load. Can your DMM confirm this? I don't think any DMM can. So stop wasting time with the DMM and just fix your grounds whether they need it or not. Even if you have a 4-wire Kelvin milliohmmeter, the test takes almost as long as just fixing the ground as I originally described. There is no harm in fixing grounds that don't "need" fixing. You can consider it collateral preventive maintenance carried out in the course of corrective maintenance.

My great was 0.1ohms. When you say fixing the grounds do you mean for me to disconnect the ground clean the ground area and replace if need be then reconnect them? That is a good ideal. I will look for the grounds with some help from these diagrams. On pic 84 shows ground G119 but I can't find information on this location as it's location isn't shown on pic 81. I do understand where P103 is. Yesterday I needed to drive my car and the alarm module was hanging down so I put the panel in place with the module resting on it's inner side. It's working as it should with the doors arming. I am not going to leave it like that. I'm finding out that the module when pushed back up in the only area avalible doesn't want to arm the doors. So I am going to move the wires around while the alarm is armed looking for a change. Also, I'm going to take the trim panel off looking for the ground wire and I will search for other ground areas that are in use. I have a question and it is can I introduce an additional ground wire to the wiper circuit by taping in to the already existing one? Thank you for your time

 

When you say fixing the grounds do you mean for me to disconnect the ground clean the ground area and replace if need be then reconnect them?

Yes.

Yesterday I needed to drive my car and the alarm module was hanging down so I put the panel in place with the module resting on it's inner side. It's working as it should with the doors arming.

That sounds less like a bad ground and more like a bad wire among the wires coming out of the module, or a cold solder joint in the connector where the wires connect to the module. But could still be a bad ground.

I have a question and it is can I introduce an additional ground wire to the wiper circuit by taping in to the already existing one?

Yes

 

I have a question and it is can I introduce an additional ground wire to the wiper circuit by taping in to the already existing one?

Over the year I've done something similar, but instead of taping use a crimp on ring terminal. Most vehicle grounds serve a few things at one point some times they are wired to a welded stud on the body or frame using a nut, Other times they just use a sheet metal screw. I can never hurt to run an extra ground wire from any suspected bad ground.

The old VW Bugs did it from every light or accessory a dedicated ground back to the negative battery cable. Rust isn't as good a conductor as new steel.

 

Yes.


That sounds less like a bad ground and more like a bad wire among the wires coming out of the module, or a cold solder joint in the connector where the wires connect to the module. But could still be a bad ground.


Yes

Ok, as that's what it seems to me. As for an additional ground how would you go about adding one. I tried grounding the case of the motor and had no change but what I like to do is an additional ground by tapping in to it's ground wire and then to clean part of the metal. Please answer this?

 

Ok, as that's what it seems to me. As for an additional ground how would you go about adding one. I tried grounding the case of the motor and had no change but what I like to do is an additional ground by tapping in to it's ground wire and then to clean part of the metal. Please answer this?

Yes if it has a ground wire, tap into the wire as close to the motor as you can get.

 

I tested the - of the battery to the starter area ground and it was great. Seems these ground points are some what hard to find then again I'm new to testing them. I don't believe the alarm issue has anything to do with the wiper issue. But if it does is there a way to ground the wiper circuit out side of it's factory installed ground?

The only problem with that is it is no guarantee anything else is grounded correctly. There are rubber mounts between the engine and frame, and rubber mounts between the frame and body,. There needs to be a physical wire from the ground terminal of your battery to the body grounds. Some times there is a dedicated cable, other times is is a strap off the back side of the engine to the firewall. Is the ground attached to the engine or the starter? I don't know about Delco car starters, but I do know the Delco starters I deal with on semi trucks the ground connection on the starter is not internally connected to the starter case. The starter ground lug only grounds the starter motor. I've seen it burn a few people including myself the first time around.

The reason I said to measure between the radio ground and battery ground is because the radio ground and wiper ground are on the same circuit and join at S211 or whatever it was in the diagram. That could help to narrow down where the problem is.

Part of me wants to say the wiper issue is something different, but at the same time there is no other explanation based on your diagrams. A bad ground connection somewhere is causing part of the internal circuitry to not actually reach 0 Volts and keeping things alive is how I see it otherwise they would always turn on with a fuse installed instead of just having to pull the fuse to get them to turn off.

 

Essentially what the problem is automotive electronics will typically work down to 8 or 9 Volts depending on the device. What happens when you have a faulty ground is you have a ground wire that is a voltage above 0 Volts in relation to the battery ground due to the basic laws of electricity. When that happens things still work because when you take the 12V from the battery positive and subtract the say 1V that the ground is floating at you still have a difference of 11V. Now in the case of your alarm if your alarm ground is at 0V, but due to a ground problem the door switch ground only goes down to 1.5V then the alarm is not seeing the 0V it expects and your alarm is not arming. I am not saying this is exactly what happened, but as a general rule this is what happens in these cases. The chance of actually finding the problem by measuring things is pretty low due to the fact different loads affect the problem in different ways. The ,moment your alarm checks the switch may cause a slight rise in the ground plane enough that it doesn't see what it expects. Further complicating matters is that face that meters are not fast enough to pick up instantaneous changes that will affect the problem so the .00000001 second blip in the ground plane could be all that is keeping the wipers from turning off as they should, the alarm from arming as it should, or a myriad of other things that are supposed to happen but don't.

That is why everyone is harping on the grounds. We have all been there and I can personally say on more than a couple occasions had a baseball bat or large hammer been within reach the problem would have been solved differently.

Edit...

Another problem that can arise is devices try to ground themselves through the grounds or sensors of other devices and skew sensors and data to the point it looks like the problem is something that is not. I know of a dash cluster in a vehicle at work that all the gauges will go up a little when you turn on the headlights if the gauge cluster ground is weak due to the gauge lights grounding through the sensors instead of the normal path.