Will we see a real self driving car in our life time?

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,261
Hello,

It appears that by your own personal estimation that there is nothing better, but how do you know that your idea of what is apparently the single and only alternative is worse, even if it was the only alternative. You're suggesting that animals run free, but we already know that. It's is clear that doing nothing is not a solution. If it was, we would not need government. Note the word "govern" in "government" :)
Doing nothing is a solution if you believe the market solution for product development is working the way it should. It's just not the solution you want.
 
Last edited:

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,457
Doing nothing is a solution if you believe the market solution for product development is working the way it should. It's just not the solution you want.

Hello again,

So i guess your party is the "No Government" party? Never heard of that one :)
What will your animal icon be then? The ghost of a donkey patting a ghost elephant on the back :) :)
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,261
Hello again,

So i guess your party is the "No Government" party? Never heard of that one :)
What will your animal icon be then? The ghost of a donkey patting a ghost elephant on the back :) :)
Why are you making this about Government or political parties picking winners and losers? I see the marketplace of products like self-driving cars operating normally with newbies getting their rears kicked by people who know the business and have had their asses kicked in the marketplace for decades.
 

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,457
Why are you making this about Government or political parties picking winners and losers? I see the marketplace of products like self-driving cars operating normally with newbies getting their rears kicked by people who know the business and have had their asses kicked in the marketplace for decades.
Hi,

Not sure what you mean here about picking winners and losers.
I just think that the "market place" should be better governed, that's all.
I am not alone in this thought as some 'market places" are being examined by gov today as a target for legislation simply because some market place owners take advantage of their marketing position and it ends up affecting people's actual lives, in particular, their actual life spans. This of course goes into effect via a price increase, of which the gov has to pick up the cost, and that is my guess as to why the gov cares in the first place. Then they try to create laws that force higher costs onto the elderly and other disadvantaged people.
This is actually happening as we speak. Check out some of the new "health care" laws that are possibly going into effect at some point if you havent already. I quote "health care" because it is anything but that.
This is a very serious issue. Our only hope is that they dont get passed.
BTW the red flag was raised by the recent very steep price increase in some VERY important prescription drugs.

Health care is not the only area though, it happens in a lot of areas where there is no regulation. I have to wonder sometimes how we made it this far :)

My only concern is when things get really out of wack. I have to hope that it does not get too bad.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,261
Hi,

Not sure what you mean here about picking winners and losers.
I just think that the "market place" should be better governed, that's all.
I am not alone in this thought as some 'market places" are being examined by gov today as a target for legislation simply because some market place owners take advantage of their marketing position and it ends up affecting people's actual lives, in particular, their actual life spans. This of course goes into effect via a price increase, of which the gov has to pick up the cost, and that is my guess as to why the gov cares in the first place. Then they try to create laws that force higher costs onto the elderly and other disadvantaged people.
This is actually happening as we speak. Check out some of the new "health care" laws that are possibly going into effect at some point if you havent already. I quote "health care" because it is anything but that.
This is a very serious issue. Our only hope is that they dont get passed.
BTW the red flag was raised by the recent very steep price increase in some VERY important prescription drugs.

Health care is not the only area though, it happens in a lot of areas where there is no regulation. I have to wonder sometimes how we made it this far :)

My only concern is when things get really out of wack. I have to hope that it does not get too bad.
All that is great but it has zero relevance to self-driving cars. Create your own thread if you want to talk about politics and drugs.
 
Last edited:

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,045
How long will it be before 'self driving' cars will have their own set of laws? Not only emissions and safety standards like now, but safety standards on the 'self driving' part, that have to be met before they are unleashed into the public.
 

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,457
I would like to see a tv set that can automatically control volume, before we worry about self driving cars.
Hi,

My car radio LCD back light changes (gets dimmer) when i turn on the headlights because it assumes that it is dark in the car i guess and so you dont need as bright a back light as in the daytime.

My TV has some audio compression you can turn on or off, and i think there is low, medium, and high percentage auto adjustment. You can also build a circuit to do this and this is a pretty popular project topic on the web.
 

BR-549

Joined Sep 22, 2013
4,928
MrAl......shirley you jest. Not sure about the LCD comment......some car radios volume do follow background "road" noise.

ALL video, with AVC(for the audio) now work in a perverted manner. ALL video media now Amplify the useless information(sound effects,background music....all background music is a rock concert now) and mute/or cover the needed information(dialog).

AND THEN.....along comes a commercial. Screaming monkey audio. I am not alone on this. Congress had to pass laws to placate us.

Which of course was useless. Congress doesn't understand electronics and let lobbyist write the law.
It made it easy to loophole around.

Sorta like healthcare. And education. And everything else.

A circuit to correct this is impossible. Because there is no standard for compression or other DSP techniques.

So when you find a universal AVC........I have searched for years......please let me know.

If you can watch your tv and are satisfied with the audio........you are a blessed man.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,261
MrAl......shirley you jest. Not sure about the LCD comment......some car radios volume do follow background "road" noise.

ALL video, with AVC(for the audio) now work in a perverted manner. ALL video media now Amplify the useless information(sound effects,background music....all background music is a rock concert now) and mute/or cover the needed information(dialog).

AND THEN.....along comes a commercial. Screaming monkey audio. I am not alone on this. Congress had to pass laws to placate us.

Which of course was useless. Congress doesn't understand electronics and let lobbyist write the law.
It made it easy to loophole around.

Sorta like healthcare. And education. And everything else.

A circuit to correct this is impossible. Because there is no standard for compression or other DSP techniques.

So when you find a universal AVC........I have searched for years......please let me know.

If you can watch your tv and are satisfied with the audio........you are a blessed man.
The key to clear audio dialog is a good listening room designed for multi-channel audio with the proper acoustic treatments. You're right, just using electronics will never provide the bests results.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,261
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-40416606
Volvo's self-driving technology is struggling to identify kangaroos in the road.

The Swedish car-maker's 2017 S90 and XC90 models use its Large Animal Detection system to monitor the road for deer, elk and caribou.

But the way kangaroos move confuses it.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-24/driverless-cars-in-australia-face-challenge-of-roo-problem/8574816?smid=Page: ABC News-Facebook_Organic&WT.tsrc=Facebook_Organic&sf92015434=1
Because the cars use the ground as a reference point, they become confused by a hopping kangaroo, unable to determine how far away it is.

But Mr Pickett said it was even more complicated than that.

"First we have to start identifying the roo," he said.

"We identify what a human looks like by how a human walks, because it's not only the one type of human — you've got short people, tall people, people wearing coats. The same applies to a roo.
 

BR-549

Joined Sep 22, 2013
4,928
Using a standard template for all roads would help. Electronically sensible paint.....fixed distances and markers. All the countries would have to mirror the standards.......so the cars are universal.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,261
Using a standard template for all roads would help. Electronically sensible paint.....fixed distances and markers. All the countries would have to mirror the standards.......so the cars are universal.
For US style roads that's a possibility but a large number of roads in the world look like this in places. :eek:
 
Last edited:

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,009
Using a standard template for all roads would help. Electronically sensible paint.....fixed distances and markers. All the countries would have to mirror the standards.......so the cars are universal.

I just drove through Detroit today, Why would they start with "electronically sensible paint", they can't even fill 12"-deep potholes.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,261
https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/PR20170912.aspx
WASHINGTON (Sept. 12, 2017) — The National Transportation Safety Board determined Tuesday that a truck driver’s failure to yield the right of way and a car driver’s inattention due to overreliance on vehicle automation are the probable cause of the fatal May 7, 2016, crash near Williston, Florida.

The NTSB also determined the operational design of the Tesla’s vehicle automation permitted the car driver’s overreliance on the automation, noting its design allowed prolonged disengagement from the driving task and enabled the driver to use it in ways inconsistent with manufacturer guidance and warnings.
...
Findings in the NTSB’s report include:

  • The Tesla’s automated vehicle control system was not designed to, and could not, identify the truck crossing the Tesla’s path or recognize the impending crash. Therefore, the system did not slow the car, the forward collision warning system did not provide an alert, and the automatic emergency braking did not activate.
  • The Tesla driver’s pattern of use of the Autopilot system indicated an over-reliance on the automation and a lack of understanding of the system limitations.
  • If automated vehicle control systems do not automatically restrict their own operation to conditions for which they were designed and are appropriate, the risk of driver misuse remains.
  • The way in which the Tesla “Autopilot” system monitored and responded to the driver’s interaction with the steering wheel was not an effective method of ensuring driver engagement.
  • Tesla made design changes to its “Autopilot” system following the crash. The change reduced the period of time before the “Autopilot” system issues a warning/alert when the driver’s hands are off the steering wheel. The change also added a preferred road constraint to the alert timing sequence.
  • Fatigue, highway design and mechanical system failures were not factors in the crash. There was no evidence indicating the truck driver was distracted by cell phone use. While evidence revealed the Tesla driver was not attentive to the driving task, investigators could not determine from available evidence the reason for his inattention.
  • Although the results of post-crash drug testing established that the truck driver had used marijuana before the crash, his level of impairment, if any, at the time of the crash could not be determined from the available evidence.
 
Top