Whirlpool Stove - E5 error

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popit2012

Joined Jul 9, 2012
9
Hi. I'm trying to repair a control board on a Whirlpool WFE510S0AB0 stove. Problem is, when it comes to circuit boards, I have very limited knowledge. I've replaced many stepper motors and bulbs on car instrument cluster board and stuff like that, but I have no idea how to troubleshoot something like this. A couple things I've noticed, well first the F5 code on the clock (Whirlpool says to bad board - replace the board, so thats not helpful). Second thing I noticed is some corrosion on the metal "wires" on the board. (not sure of their name, but they serve as a bridge between connections). I also saw some corrosion on the one and only IC onboard. (but I think this is from sitting in storage for two years, not the initial cause of failure. And today it still powered on, and did the same it did two years ago - F5 error, locks the door, then unlocks light flickers, etc. Now, the big obvious thing I noticed was at least two of the relays were rattling as I removed the board. All of them may be rattling, though. I cant tell which ones it is. I've never seen or heard a relay do that before, so doesnt that sound like a bad relay? My question is, which is more likely. A relay went bad and thats causing the F5 code, or the IC went bad and made the relay(s) cycle on and off so rapidly they broke? None of the capcitors are bulging, no resistors look burnt, from what I can see just looking at it. So I'm sure its either the chip or the relays. Oh, one other thing. I found the relay on the internet, but only the top number matched. The black relay has two sets of numbers
"JQ1aP-B24v-F" and below that "ajq834281f". Which set of numbers need to match?
 

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SLK001

Joined Nov 29, 2011
1,549
Where is a picture of the backside?

My guess, since that is all we can do, is that there is an open on one of the relay terminals. I've seen some ovens that used solder to bridge the gap between the PCB and the terminals. Trouble is, is that solder can't carry the required current, so it heats up and flows away from the terminal, thus leaving an open circuit.
 

Thread Starter

popit2012

Joined Jul 9, 2012
9
Sorry about that, forgot to upload it last night. The solder connections around the relays look ok from what I can tell. Something else I forgot to mension is if you would shake the whole stove it would go into clean mode. So something is not making a good connection. I haven't spent much time looking at the board yet, but I wanted to test the relays. However, I dont know which pin is what. They dont seem to be marked with the normal 85 86 30 and 87 like automotive relays.
 

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Thread Starter

popit2012

Joined Jul 9, 2012
9
Apologies for the double post, but I found something else interesting. I remembered the service document thats always buried in appliances. It says that and F5 code means that the door switch isnt matching what the control board is expecting. (switch closed when board is expecting it open and vice versa). Now F1 means complete board failure, which I thought I saw two years ago once, then it switched to F5. If the relay power pins are shorting out it'll be cycling the door lock when it's not supposed to, confusing the board. Does this seem likely?
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
I've had door lock issues with my Jenn-Air oven that were caused by mechanical issues. Corrosion and crap interfering with proper operation of the locking mechanism (that holds the door shut during a self-clean cycle) and/or the associated limit switches. It's been a long time. Sorry I can't recall more details.

I've also learned that with my oven, unplugging it for a while and plugging it back it will clear some errors.
 

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popit2012

Joined Jul 9, 2012
9
Well, I think you may be on to something here. I read further into the technical sheet and it says F5 could also be the door latch motor or switch. Now the motor infact works when applied 120V, but the datasheet says normal resistance is 500-3000Ω, well as you can see it's reading 27Ω. Plus there is a large burn mark all around the motor. I'm wondering if the control board is doing exactly what it's supposed to, shutting off when there is a hazard detected...
 

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pfofit

Joined Nov 29, 2006
57
Your last image is not the oven lock motor. That is the oven lamp socket. You are most likely measuring the oven bulb. :)

The motor is above with the micro switch attached.
The corrosion on the micro definitely needs to be cleaned up. May be commanding an door lock action thru the shorts. Use rubbing alcohol and q-tips. That crap is/will short out micro pins. Also the other corrosion above the micro and the rust on the display side jumpers. Probably need to do a couple times, make sure its dry when done and use a magnifier to ensure no corrosion between pins on the micro.

May need something small, sharp and non conductive to scrap out the junk remaining between the pins... Rub the q-tip and junk away from the chip, not toward it. Hold the board vertical or at an angle so the crud and alcohol do not run under the chip as you clean . Need to be sure you get the alcohol from under the micro as some will try to wick under it. . An air compressor on low PSI or a hair dryer, but don't cook it with too much heat.

All stoves have different software but if the motor cycles for the oven door lock, normally there is a min/ max time required to see the switch close, if not then the error code appears. The lock is a safety for self clean and as the temp goes up to 900+ , if you opened the door at that temp your face would melt off like in raiders of the lost ark . :mad:
The lock will not unlock until the oven temp gets below 600 or something like that.
Check the motor switch for zero ohms when activated. Less then 0.5 .

The bigger relays are for the bake and broil and the smaller are for lamp and motor. The other big relay by itself on the other side is the doubler relay or common to both oven elements.

In addition to the crud issues, showing a crop of the diagram for the oven controls, the surface element drawings are unnecessary.
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Thread Starter

popit2012

Joined Jul 9, 2012
9
Yeah, you are absolutely right. After I posted that I took a second look at the diagram and realized I read the schematic wrong. I was looking at the black/white wire instead of the brown wire. Thought it was so strange that the motor could work with such a low resistance value. Checked that and it's reading 1700 ohms, well within the OK range. The switch you mentioned also works as it should. I'm working on the corrosion now. I desoldered on of the relays that rattled and it turns out it's OK, so I was wrong on that. Thought I found a bad diode because it was reading about "144" forward-bias, and ~ "760" reverse-bias. All the others read "1----" reverse and which is infinity on my meter. They all read in between 200-800 forward. I took that diode off and checked it again and it was fine (144-forward, infinity reverse). I found something else, though. The resistor circled in red, it looks like the bands are "Brown-Black-Brown-Silver", which according to Digi-Key is a 100 ohm resistor. And if I'm reading the bands backwards, it would make it an 81 ohm resistor. I'm getting 1.2Ohms. What would cause a resistor to short circuit like that? I would think it would fail open? Oh and the solder is really tough on this board, like nothing I've ever worked with before. I just have a cheap little soldering iron, so that's not helping matters. Must be some high temp stuff.
 

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Ya’akov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
9,237
Oh and the solder is really tough on this board, like nothing I've ever worked with before. I just have a cheap little soldering iron, so that's not helping matters. Must be some high temp stuff.
It is probably a RoHS compliant board, which means lead free solder, and a big pain for rework.

IF you flow a very small amount of leaded solder onto the joint it will make desoldering and desoldering much easier.
 

pfofit

Joined Nov 29, 2006
57
I found something else, though. The resistor circled in red, it looks like the bands are "Brown-Black-Brown-Silver", which according to Digi-Key is a 100 ohm resistor. And if I'm reading the bands backwards, it would make it an 81 ohm resistor. I'm getting 1.2Ohms.
Not to worry, it's an inductor . Note the L1 marking to the right of it
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
Your board photo reminds me of the one I had to replace in my Jenn-Air. I still have the old one and, without doing a side-by-side, I'd say it's identical to your's. Now, this board failed, so I'm not sure how useful it is but if you can't identify a component or need a value check, I might be able to help. Why did I keep it? Packrat.
 

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popit2012

Joined Jul 9, 2012
9
Your board photo reminds me of the one I had to replace in my Jenn-Air. I still have the old one and, without doing a side-by-side, I'd say it's identical to your's. Now, this board failed, so I'm not sure how useful it is but if you can't identify a component or need a value check, I might be able to help. Why did I keep it? Packrat.
Thank you. On your board, do the relays also make a rattle noise when shaken? I know they tested good, but seems odd that the two relays making that noise are what control the very things acting up on the stove, the lamp and the door lock. Tomorrow when it warms up, I'll put the board back in and see if getting the corrosion off was all it needed. Can't do it today because Ohio weather and it's now in the garage with no heat. Was 55 yesterday, now it's 26. By Wednesday it's supposed to be in the mid 60s!

If I can't fix this, would there be anyway for me to order a new board (cheaper?) directly from Schneider Electric rather than Whirlpool? Whirlpool only sells the back panel, which includes the board, buttons and plastic housing. The board was made by Invensys Controls, which is apparently owned by Schneider Electric. If not, does anyone know of anyone that could fix it for less than $169? I found a company that could fix it for that price, but haven't found a better price than that yet. I don't want to spend a bunch on the control board because the glass is also broken, presumably from the extreme temperatures in storage. I found a replacement glass top used for $150 and if I spend >$300 it's not worth the cost.
 

pfofit

Joined Nov 29, 2006
57
Can you show a pic of the cleaned up board?
.
The JQ1aP-B24v-F relays are 24 v panasonics with a 10amp rating but there are other brands that meet the same specs and footprint.
Not really normal for the relays to rattle.
How did you test them? Just resistance and or with power
Rereading, you mentioned earlier that shaking the stove cause self clean to activate.
Ohm out the self clean switch and flex tap, push the board (not aggressively) to see it you get anything less than open.(edit: in circuit it may be 25-50Koms) There could be corrosion in the switch. i have changed a bunch of those tactiles switches over the years. They can cause a lot of weird and magical things.
If the button was/is stuck short then it would give a F2 code
If it is not a flaky switch then the relay maybe sticking or the contacts are flopping around making contact, that might cause the rattle.
Check the motor relay contacts like the switch above for flaky resistance. If you rap the relay to hard you will probably get the contact to bounce.
Disconnect the brown wire from the motor and try it with power to see if the F5 appears.

Remember that some of these units need to see the lock switch activate after a bit, if it calls for self clean. Not sure if your model does this
I normally need wait 3-6 seconds and jumper the lock switch contact points when i bench test the boards that give lock errors.
 
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Thread Starter

popit2012

Joined Jul 9, 2012
9
I haven't got all the corrosion off yet. It's proving to be difficult. Most of the corrosion around the chip is off now. I only tested one of the black relays. I removed it from the board and applied 12VDC (I know it's a 24V relay, but I don't have a 24V power source). The relay clicked on and the remaining two pins had continuity (Checked with DMM). Removing power, the relay had no continuity. I tried tapping on the relay (no power) and it stayed open the whole time. Should it work with only 12V? I also checked coil resistance and it's reading 2700 ohms.

I'll take another look at the door switch tomorrow. There's nothing on the outside that indicated anything wrong, but I only checked it once to see if it opened and closed, which it did. I should clarify that I don't know if clean mode was actually engaging, just the board THOUGHT it was. The door would lock, the "clean mode" light would come on and the lamp would come on. If you unplugged it and plug it back in, sometimes it wont do any of that stuff. Either way, it always displays "F5". I don't believe the heating elements actually turned on, but when it did that I never left power on long enough to find out for sure, afraid it would catch fire since the controls also seem to be disabled when it does this. I could only get into diagnostic mode when the oven light/clean mode lights are off.
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
Thank you. On your board, do the relays also make a rattle noise when shaken?
Here are my boards. You'll see some similarity but they're not like your's - no relays. I had forgotten that I've replaced the board in this oven 3 times now. (It's 27 years old.) Not sure where the 3rd board is - maybe I got a credit for sending it in. That actually rings a bell now that I say it. I think I found a supplier that fixes these. Your send your old one in and they send you a reworked one.
If I can't fix this, would there be anyway for me to order a new board (cheaper?) directly from Schneider Electric rather than Whirlpool?
Yes! Just start searching on the part number. There are tons of appliance part suppliers and it'll take some time to sort through them all. Sometimes you'll find that there is a cross reference part number - be sure to search on that also. Sometimes the cross reference is more 'generic' and more popular than your number. I think Whirlpool is the base, though, so your Whirlpool number is probably the best one to search for.

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Thread Starter

popit2012

Joined Jul 9, 2012
9
Thank you for all your help. I dont want to speak too soon, because it's only been powered on for a couple minutes but after cleaning the corrosion, now the clock lights up and is stove is functioning normal. I cant let it run through a clean cycle to make sure, but I havent seen the clock light up without an error in two years, so we must be getting somewhere with this. Oven lamp switch works though. I cant test the clean mode because I've got this stove hooked up through the dryer outlet and I wouldn't think clean mode would draw >30 amps, but I have no clue and don't want to try it out. I think I'll just leave it plugged in for a few weeks and if no error code reappear at random like before I'll get a new glass top and finally have my nicer stove back!
 

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wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
Thank you for all your help. I dont want to speak too soon, because it's only been powered on for a couple minutes but after cleaning the corrosion, now the clock lights up and is stove is functioning normal. I cant let it run through a clean cycle to make sure, but I havent seen the clock light up without an error in two years, so we must be getting somewhere with this. Oven lamp switch works though. I cant test the clean mode because I've got this stove hooked up through the dryer outlet and I wouldn't think clean mode would draw >30 amps, but I have no clue and don't want to try it out. I think I'll just leave it plugged in for a few weeks and if no error code reappear at random like before I'll get a new glass top and finally have my nicer stove back!
Opinion: Don't ever run the self-cleaning mode. Since my oven is 27 years old, I've had the occasion to learn about gaskets, insulation, how the door is constructed and so on. The general consensus I've seen in forums is that "self-cleaning" is a great marketing feature but using it dramatically shortens the life of the appliance. So what to do? Go to a Sam's Club and get some of this stuff:

This stuff is surprisingly potent for a retail product and you MUST wear gloves while using it. Goggles advised also. The important thing is, it works. It does a far better job than the so-called self-clean. I've never looked back.
 

pfofit

Joined Nov 29, 2006
57
Nice job getting the board running, as you say so far.

You might what to clean up the solder joints circled, they probably wont work well in time.
The traces are large and a minimum 35 watt iron is needed. What kind of solder did you use.?


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