Testing AC Line Quality with an Oscilloscope - Generator power quality

Thread Starter

Lumenosity

Joined Mar 1, 2017
614
I have a new digital camera arriving next week and will post some photos and the general settings I used to get those photos after some trial and error.
 

DickCappels

Joined Aug 21, 2008
10,171
Flat topping if sine waves on power lines is common in placed that are heavily loaded with power supplies with capacitor filters right after the rectifiers.

It is the main reason many switching power supplied include power factor correction circuitry.
 

Reloadron

Joined Jan 15, 2015
7,517
I suppose what I need to do is test to see if the Neutral in my home is in fact bonded to Ground (which I believe it should be, unlike my generators).
It should be if you are on the same North American continent that I am and if in the US your residence is wired correctly in accordance with the NEC (National Electric Code).
The waveform I got from this test on my House AC showed a minor flat spot on the peaks and I'm wondering if this indicates the condition he spoke of where the peaks of the sine wave has possibly been chopped a bit from voltage loss due to his concern......I'm not sure but it seems plausible to me.
What you are seeing and as Dick affirms is really pretty common. Seeing slightly flattened tops and bottoms as seen below is what I believe you are getting at:
Flat Top Sine Wave.jpg

While my power delivery is pretty good the flat tops you are seeing really should not have a detrimental effect on anything. They will be more pronounced during times of peak demand on your local grid but aren't anything to worry about. If power mains quality is really a concern using a scope is not the best way to measure it.

I have a power transfer switch in my home I should mention which allows me to disconnect the house AC from the outside Line for connecting a generator, so this could complicate things a bit.
I have the same. The only lines switched are L1 and L2 the 240 VAC. The Ground and Neutral are just passed through from the generator. to my mains power panel. That is where Ground and Neutral are bonded. I use an automatic transfer but it matters not as in any transfer I have seen only L1 and L2 are switched. I don't quite see where having a mains transfer switch should pose a problem or complicate anything.

Here is an interesting tid bit. My whole house backup generator has four lines coming out. There is L1 and L2 in addition to Ground and Neutral. Ground and Neutral are not bonded at the generator. However, I also have an old little portable generator and on that unit Ground and Neutral are bonded internal to the generator. It's an old Power Mate 4.0 KW unit, 5.0 KW surge. The whole house automatic unit is natural gas fired and a 16.0 KW unit. Before that I had a 13.0 KW unit which served well for 10 years and died. That unit also did not have Ground and Neutral bonded. That old unit is out in the garage and one day I may actually get around to looking at it to see why it doesn't work.

Now if you want to see some seriously ugly power then take a look at a modified sine wave UPS output but that same ugly MSW output holds up my computer, my wife's computer and other assorted electronics during the period when mains power fails till the standby generator is online and transferred. This is why I am not really concerned about my mains power quality. While stuff like this can be interesting to look at there is only so much that can be done about it. :)

Just use caution as you wade through this stuff.

Ron
 

Thread Starter

Lumenosity

Joined Mar 1, 2017
614
So, I got a new Digital Camera, far better than the cellphones I have been using.
A lot more complex but I'm starting to get the hang of it....shutter speeds, Aperture and ISO etc
So this is starting to look more like it.....

House AC
HouseAC_Waveform_2_Sept12-2019.jpg

Still not as good as ReloadRon's shot's but with a bit more practice :)
Now that I can get decent shots, I'll grab a shot of the NON Inverter generator because it is significantly different than
the House AC or the Inverter Generator AC

All my Inverter generators produce a smoother sinusoidal than the house AC.
When I can, I'll do some load testing to see how the waveform varies under load with mine specific generators.

ISO: 80
Shutterspeed: 0"5
Aperture: F5.0
Distance: 20 inches
 

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Reloadron

Joined Jan 15, 2015
7,517
Congratulations on a new camera. While pictures are nice and can show some fine detail I think what we are after is how good is the power. Like your thread title what is the quality? That is what it's all about.

This is an interesting read on the subject of power quality in general. Things to look at include but are not limited to:
  • Continuity of service (Whether the electrical power is subject to voltage drops or overages below or above a threshold level thereby causing blackouts or brownouts[2])
  • Variation in voltage magnitude (see below)
  • Transient voltages and currents
  • Harmonic content in the waveforms for AC power
As I mentioned I have yet to get out to the garage and run my old 4.0 KW unit, if for no other reason I should run that with winter coming just in case I need it. I should also run the house backup unit. That unit runs an exercise routine weekly but that does not include load transfer. Nice to know it is actually making electricity. :)

Ron
 
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