HHO is code for hydrogen and oxygen mixed together in a 2 to 1 ratio. I've seen this before, in the form of aqualine and Brown's gas. You want some interesting reading google them, both are bogus, but with some interesting industrial applications. I still haven't figured out what keeps a perfect mix from exploding though, but evidently it is doable. Brown's gas had an unfortunate tendency to do just that when the gas cylinder hit a certain low pressure range (yes, they sold pressurized H2 and O2 in a high pressure cylinder!). Again, I still haven't figured out what kept it from exploding at high pressure, but evidently it was stable. Nowdays they electrolyze it on demand (go figure).

The HHO molecule is thrown out there because anyone without any chemistry background will buy into it, in other words it looks good, even if it can't exist.

I would like to see some numbers for the process though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but an electric car runs for pennies on the dollar compared to gas. We are using a round about method of converting a gas guzzler into an electric car, from what I can see.

 

Hey Bill,

Don't confuse me with so-called facts planted by the evil establishment. I just want to know how to do it so I don't have to buy gas any more. Gosh, who cares about thermodynamics, physics, physical chemistry, and atomic structure and masses.

I just want something that works, so I don't have to pay at the pump anymore. After all, this sort of thing is more believable than a stockbroker, and we still buy stocks

Here's just one success story:

well got it up and running to day no longer on gas the 83 ford with 351 works grate so as long as i can pass the gas station i do not mind how every one feels about it i do not sell or try to charge anyone for what i find to work just try to help and get my stuff running

Please give us more.

John

 

Like I said, I'd love to hear the numbers, the real ones, concerning gas usage vs. electricity costs. Electricity generation is so much more efficient than ICE I wouldn't be too amazed to find it is cheaper. HHO is somewhat a button of mine.

Who knows, maybe this is a really cheap electrical conversion kit for older cars. If you've ever listened to Car Talk on PBS it has come up there.

 

Of course. The consultant for alternative fuels is: Amanda Livering Cole

Whatever Ms. Cole says has got to be true.

John

 

On another forum a guy is making a water electrolysis circuit for his car.
I Googled HHO and found a video of a plumber with a huge electrical machine that makes HHO for him to solder copper pipes with. It is "fuelled" with at least one gallon of water.
So instead of buying propane gas he pays the electricity company.

Another video shows HHO slowly bubbling from an electrolysis circuit. It produces less gas than is needed for a candle flame. To run a heavy car?? The alternator is straining to make the tiny amount of HHO.

 

Which brings up another thought, how many alternators have bit the dust due to this? If I were ever to try something like this I'd definitely use deep cycle batteries, and rig something to measure the electricity used to charge them so I'd know the total costs. But then, I want to approach it as a science project, something that seems lacking. Thing I found most amusing about the web site where the schematic was posted, this guy talks like someone is wanting to "get" him. This has been a common theme for all these sites, such as the 100MPG carburetors of a few years past.

 

Now, running an internal combustion engine entirely on hydrogen (or hho gas bay electrolysis) would be indeed impractical, but using Hydrogen as an Fuel Enhanchement is a possibility i think, and is probably what all those guys on yourtube really are trying to do... (Though, most of them doesn't realize that... )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel_enhancement

 

None of this is any testament to "HHO" as any kind of "miracle fuel." It is simply evidence of the obscene inefficiency of the internal combustion engine.

Heck, I might make one of these things for my own use if I had suitable assurance of it not blowing up.

I Googled HHO and found a video of a plumber with a huge electrical machine that makes HHO for him to solder copper pipes with. It is "fuelled" with at least one gallon of water.
So instead of buying propane gas he pays the electricity company.

Considering the plumber is likely using his customers' electricity, he's got a good deal going. I would worry about the liability, though.

HHO is not merely explosive, it is very explosive. Count me out.

 

Actually that is why on site generation is a good thing. Just think about a pressurized cylinder going up, looks like a bomb, acts like one too.

Evidently enough people have messed with it it is safe if handled properly. Me, I wouldn't have done those sets of experiments, but hey, if it has already been done...

 

Heck, I might make one of these things for my own use if I had suitable assurance of it not blowing up.

HHO is not merely explosive, it is very explosive. Count me out.

I'll agree with you, but it's sort of a subjective agreement.

If an ignition source could make it's way inside a sealed vessel that was filled with HHO, there would certainly be an extraordinarly rapid flame front, generating a tremendous amount of pressure; sufficient to rupture even thick-walled vessels. The F1 engines that generated 1.5 million lbs thrust each in the Saturn V rocket engines that sent men on their way to the moon some 40 years ago were powered by liquid hydrogen and LOX.

But you could stop an ignition source from entering the vessel, even though the gas is HHO, by using something like a sintered bronze filter, similar to the type that used to be used in carburetors many years ago. The pores are so small and the cooling effect so great that a flame couldn't go through it.

I wouldn't hook an HHO gas generator up to an infernal (sic) combustion engine without multiple such suitable flame arrestors, and a VERY small gas reservoir that had a large low-pressure blowout panel. Without such safety devices in place, all you would need is a sticky intake valve to get a very loud explosion from under the hood (or bonnet for you UK and Down Under types)

 

Indeed, flashback arrestors are needed at any time the negative flame velocity risks exceeding the positive gas velocity. Which translates (for me, anyway) as always. But what makes a reliable flashback arrestor for HHO?

Heck, I'd like to make a hydrogen-oxygen torch once my wife and I are generating our own electricity. But I won't until I know I can do it safely.

 

Indeed, flashback arrestors are needed at any time the negative flame velocity risks exceeding the positive gas velocity. Which translates (for me, anyway) as always. But what makes a reliable flashback arrestor for HHO?

Well, try an experiment using a very limited source of gas.

Actually, I may just do that myself fairly soon.

I've read (on reputable sites) that electrolysis becomes much more efficient when the temperature of the water is elevated to near boiling; which makes a good deal of sense to me.

Water injection has been used for years to reduce detonation of IC engines. There are still aftermarket companies selling them (I think - I haven't looked lately). Water injection was used to control detonation and cool the immense engine in the F-4U Corsair fighter of WWII during emergency operation.

It occurs to me that boiling water to generate steam (for reducing peak combustion temperatures) AND facilitate the generation of Brown's Gas might be something worth investigating...

 

Well, try an experiment using a very limited source of gas.

Actually, I may just do that myself fairly soon.

Please do let me know how it turns out! I certainly have no shame from sending the Marine in first! And I know I need not remind you to wear a face shield.

 

there is no need to compress any hho gas, just direct it directly into your intake - the more the better

remember, we are not running the car completely off hho, we are still using fossil fuels, just being more effecient with it.
hho gas helps burn the unused gasoline.

now the power usage, lets say your hho generator uses 30 amps at 12volts - thats a lot of amps, 360watts of power - well if your theory trys to say you wont have enough electricity to charge your battery and such, then explain this.

my audio system has a 17.3amp peak cd player, and an amp that draws 50amps peak. I run it usualy 2/3rds of its max volume. (50+17.3) x 2/3 = 44.86 amps. I don't have a problem with this at all. My MPG hasn't changed with and without it being used. Producing HHO gas is only using eletricity, weather it's 5 amps or 50amps. Your car should be able to handel it. My brothers old super beatle has 2400watts of bass with no caps. I've got no caps also. If you've got a smaller engine, like my 1.5l, usualy 75amps is the limit you'll want to push. I've been running this system fine for 2 years now.


Back to HHO, now that we are hopefully on the same track, I've got the other part to speak of. PWM, it ruduces the amount of electricity you use. Also it produces more hydrogen at the correct frequency.

I don't see how you got to the point of my wheels not moving but ok >.<

envesting into an eletric motor for a car right now wouldn't be the best for me - almost no funds :\ otherwise I would

 

Indeed, flashback arrestors are needed at any time the negative flame velocity risks exceeding the positive gas velocity. Which translates (for me, anyway) as always. But what makes a reliable flashback arrestor for HHO?

Heck, I'd like to make a hydrogen-oxygen torch once my wife and I are generating our own electricity. But I won't until I know I can do it safely.

simple, a bubbler put tube where the hho comes out of goes into the bottom of a bottle of water or such. hho gass rises in the water, hho gas is at the top of the water. hho gas goes boom, water stops it

 

there is no need to compress any hho gas, just direct it directly into your intake - the more the better



now the power usage, lets say your hho generator uses 30 amps at 12volts - thats a shitload of amps, 360watts of power - well if your theory trys to say you wont have enough electricity to charge your battery and such, then explain this.

my audio system has a 17.3amp peak cd player, and an amp that draws 50amps peak. I run it usualy 2/3rds of its max volume. (50+17.3) x 2/3 = 44.86 amps. I don't have a problem with this at all. My MPG hasn't changed with and without it being used. Producing HHO gas is only using eletricity, weather it's 5 amps or 50amps. Your car should be able to handel it. My brothers old super beatle has 2400watts of bass with no caps. I've got no caps also. If you've got a smaller engine, like my 1.5l, usualy 75amps is the limit you'll want to push. I've been running this system fine for 2 years now.


Back to HHO, now that we are hopefully on the same track, I've got the other part to speak of. PWM, it ruduces the amount of electricity you use. Also it produces more hydrogen at the correct frequency.

I don't see how you got to the point of my wheels not moving but ok >.<

envesting into an eletric motor for a car right now wouldn't be the best for me - almost no funds :\ otherwise I would

With electrolysis the ratio of hydrogen to oxygen is always 2 to 1, it can be no more and no less. Since we are talking an added load to the electrical system it is very conceivable that you could damage the setup.

The only way any gas could be saved (at the expense of electricity) is if you charge a bank of batteries offline, using house current, otherwise you are burning gas to make HHO, not a winning proposition at all.

 

remember, we are not running the car completely off hho, we are still using fossil fuels, just being more effecient with it.
hho gas helps burn the unused gasoline.

Hypothesis contrary to fact - there is no "unused gasoline" in a properly adjusted internal combustion engine.

now the power usage, lets say your hho generator uses 30 amps at 12volts - thats a lot of amps, 360watts of power

Where are you getting your "30 amp" figure from? 360 Watts is 0.5 horsepower. 1/7 of that would be 1/14 horsepower. Doesn't sound like much of an improvement to me.

well if your theory trys to say you wont have enough electricity to charge your battery and such, then explain this.

Straw Man argument - no one here has suggested power hogging as a disadvantage of automotive electrolysis.

my audio system has a 17.3amp peak cd player, and an amp that draws 50amps peak. I run it usualy 2/3rds of its max volume. (50+17.3) x 2/3 = 44.86 amps. I don't have a problem with this at all. My MPG hasn't changed with and without it being used.

50A * 12V = 600 Watts. Still less than one horsepower. Just a drop in the bucket.

Back to HHO, now that we are hopefully on the same track, I've got the other part to speak of. PWM, it ruduces the amount of electricity you use. Also it produces more hydrogen at the correct frequency.

Argumentum ad Populum. Just because fifty thousand Elvis fans claim there is some magic frequency for this thing does not make it so. If you have some magic number, share it. State why it works. Until then, its all hyperbole and urban myth.[/quote]

simple, a bubbler - put tube where the hho comes out of goes into the bottom of a bottle of water or such. hho gass rises in the water, hho gas is at the top of the water. hho gas goes boom, water stops it

Water stops explosions, eh? Would faerie dust work as well? Or would the top of the container become shrapnel? Last time I checked, water was a nearly incompressible liquid.

No thanks. I'll stick to reesterified vegetable oil, if you don't mind. (At least in warm weather.)

Dont start a rant with out research
Dont start a rant with B.S research

Practice what you preach.

 

my audio system has a 17.3amp peak cd player, and an amp that draws 50amps peak. I run it usualy 2/3rds of its max volume. (50+17.3) x 2/3 = 44.86 amps. I don't have a problem with this at all.... My brothers old super beatle has 2400watts of bass with no caps. I've got no caps also. If you've got a smaller engine, like my 1.5l, usualy 75amps is the limit you'll want to push. I've been running this system fine for 2 years now.

Your concern over the environment is admirable. Why don't you take it to the next step? Stop the sound pollution and save gas.

Oops. That implies you believe in thermodynamics, not interfering with other people (including ability to hear emergency vehicles), and common sense. John

 

The amount of air-fuel mixture going into a car's engine is enormous. A few bubbles of HHO won't make a noticeable difference unless the engine is tiny and is idling. Lawnmower engine?

 

there is a electrolyte that is solid... in a fuel cell they call it PEM (proton exchange membrane) but it is also a polymer electrolyte membrane. and is very useful in brute force electrolysis and can bring the efficiency levels up to 80 to 94%. Therefore only pure water is needed. You can also coat the electrodes with a solid electrolyte such as platinum. The material mostly used in the world for PEM's... "NAFION"... made by Dupont. It can capture a positive H proton and send it to the cathode where 2 positive H protons combine and give you an extra H2 molecule. turns out there are a few ways to up your production amount, and if all of them are used correctly in harmony I'm thinking an output of 7 to 10 cubic liters per minute...