What does the connector for a 1MW charger look like? That's 1000V at 1000A. How can the socket tubes be small enough to stop the general public sticking their fingers in them?

Isn't there a safety mechanism where it does not turn on until connected to a real plug or jack or something?
There better be
I just took a brief look at a few of the connectors I have no experience with any of them so this is more of a question than a statement.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/20/economy/china-graphite-export-curbs-hnk-intl/index.html
China restricts exports of graphite as it escalates a global tech war

China has unveiled plans to restrict exports of graphite — a mineral crucial to the manufacture of batteries for electric vehicles (EVs) — on national security grounds, the Ministry of Commerce and the General Administration of Customs said Friday.
...
The Institute for Energy Research, a Washington, DC-based research organization, says carmakers are trying to lock in supplies of graphite from sources outside of China, as demand for EV batteries outpaces other uses for the material.
...
“We believe that the average price of graphite will continue to rise in the future due to supply and demand imbalances, including Russia, which was one of the major graphite suppliers before the Russia-Ukraine war,” he said.

China has a massive hold on the worldwide supply chain of critical minerals needed to make EV batteries. It refines 60% of the world’s lithium and 80% of the cobalt, according to the US Department of Energy.

 

https://electrek.co/2023/10/23/gm-o...bolt-owners-who-dont-get-battery-replacement/
GM offers $1,400 to ’20-’22 Chevy Bolt owners who don’t get battery replacement

But you can only get this early payment if you install the “software final remedy” before December 31, 2023, and sign a legal release associated with taking the payment. If you don’t, you’ll have to wait for the class action to be sorted out. The compensation program only applies to owners involved in recall N212345944.

If the class action settlement ends up being more than $1,400, GM says that the difference will still be paid out to owners who take advantage of this early compensation offer.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/auto-executives-coming-clean-evs-arent-working-2023-10
Auto execs are coming clean: EVs aren't working

In scrapping plans with GM to co-develop sub-$30,000 EVs, Honda CEO Toshihiro Mibe said the shifting EV environment was difficult to gauge.

"After studying this for a year, we decided that this would be difficult as a business, so at the moment we are ending development of an affordable EV," Mibe said in an interview with Bloomberg this week.

For some, this pullback is no surprise.

"People are finally seeing reality," Toyota Motor Chairman Akio Toyoda said at the Japan Mobility Show, the Wall Street Journal reported. Toyoda has long been skeptical of his peers' pure-electric blueprints.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/auto-executives-coming-clean-evs-arent-working-2023-10
Auto execs are coming clean: EVs aren't working

The tech doesn't scale. It never could, it never was going to, it never will.

Sane auto manufacturers gave up on EVs 100 years ago. The reasons haven't changed.

 

The reasons haven't changed.

Some reason have changed. Batteries are lighter and more energy dense, motors are also lighter and more compact, and electronics efficiency have improved dramatically.

But you're right, things haven't changed enough for EV's to be economically viable without being subsidized.

 

...economically viable without being subsidized.

They're not even economical being subsidized.

 

Wow, sorry guys, but there is some shocking ignorance on display in this thread.

First, re EV fires, ICE vehicles are vastly more likely to catch fire. Try watching this video for a start:

The recent carpark fire in the UK, first reported by media and EV haters as being stared by EVs, was started by a pure diesel Range Rover. Same for the ship fire a few months back, all the EVs were on a lower level, the fire started in the ICE vehicle levels. Again, it was falsely reported as an EV fire, and when it became clear it wasn't, there wasn't a peep from mainstream media about that. The same happened with the airport fire in Norway a few years back, which was started by a turbo diesel Opel Zafira. Again, blamed on EVs, and when the truth became known, all went quiet. See a pattern here anyone?

As far as economically viable EV production is concerned, the companies that have ramped up to large scale production, Tesla and BYD, are both making a profit. Tesla's profits are the highest margin in the industry. The incumbent car makers aren't making a profit because they are still making EVs using ICE vehicle processes and systems. As an example, a while back VW came out and admitted that Tesla takes 10 hours to make a Model 3, VW takes 30 hours to make an ID series EV. You can't make a profit when your manufacturing systems are that inefficient.

As for low cost EVs, the US does have them, the Bolt EVs can be had for well under $30k, but apart from that, the US doesn't get many of the good low cost EVs everyone else does because of your trade war with China. Here in Australia, and many other places, we get vehicles like the BYD Dolphin (just got 5 star safety rating on the new tougher ANCAP test) and the GWM Ora and the MG4, they are all about AU $40k (around US$25k), and there are many more in the $50-$60k price range (US$31-$38k).

As for charging speed, my EV takes 20 seconds to charge. 10 seconds to plug it in of an evening, 10 to unplug it in the morning. The vast majority of EV charging is done at home, very little is done on the road (if people are charging at charge stations when they could be charging at home, then they are not only paying heaps more for charging, they really need to educate themselves on how to best use their vehicle). A big part of the perceived issues with EVs is the ignorance of this fact. EV haters all talk about EVs as if everyone hops in their cars and does 2000 mile trips every weekend.

The fact is, in most countries at least, very few cars do more than 50 miles a day. That might be different in the US (but I doubt it), but the real problem isn't EVs, it's the fact that the US has been completely designed around the car. That's a serious social issue that the US needs to fix, but that won't happen until the majority of Americans can recognise that fact, but I don't see that happening as they are just not well educated (the almost total failure of the US education system is another topic, though). The fact is, all those people driving ridiculous distances, many while towing vans the size of a small house, are living the lifestyle the planet cannot afford. It doesn't matter one iota if you believe "you can't tell me how to live my life, I can do what I want", you are living completely unsustainably.

But, done right, like Tesla's supercharger network, EV charging works quite well. Even the fossil fuel companies have realised who the leaders are here, with bp just signing a $100m deal with Tesla for supply of fast chargers for their own network. The fact is, the old guys are stuck in the past and have no idea how to do any aspect of EVs properly, and that is what many have been seeing as a failing of EVs when in fact it is a failing of old, entrenched attitudes.

While on charging, yes, there are many failed EV chargers not getting fixed, but again, that's a problem with the capitalist system that monetises everything. We saw the same issue with wind farms in the early days in the US, a bunch of cowboys installed farms with poor layout and no proper maintenance schedules, resulting in many dead turbines and a poor reputation. In the rest of the world, where it was mostly done properly, that didn't happen. Here in Australia, for example, we have wind farms still running after 30 years, and we regularly hit over 50% renewable energy on the grid, sometimes for days at a time. Australia will be carbon neutral on its grid within 10-20 years.

Joeyd's energy consumption graph has one big thing missing - the end use efficiency of the fuel. Remember that all combustible fuels are burned in engines with efficiencies ranging from less than 1% (your typical genset) to 60% (extremely high efficiency turbines etc), but the average is actually quite low. A typical ICE car is around 20%, but many of the big yank tanks are much, much lower. Changing them to electric means a massive drop in the energy required. And don't forget, a huge amount of electricity and other energy sources is used to extract, refine and transport fossil fuels. Ending all this refining would free up a huge amount of electricity. It has been estimated that converting all vehicles to EVs will require no grid upgrades at all in most countries, simply from all the of the generation freed up by eliminating fossil fuel operations.

As for minerals sourcing, the largest lithium producer in the world is Australia. All those photos you see of kids mining minerals, that is actually the tiny minority of mineral sourcing. Cobalt, the worst mineral for this, is not even used in the majority of EV batteries, which have changed to lithium iron phosphate, and now we have sodium ion making their way into EVs already. And, a lot of cobalt is used in oil refining, something fossil fuel lovers conveniently forget.

And the old myth of "EV batteries only last 3/10/[insert random number here] years" BS. The only EVs that have had short lifespans on their batteries have been Nissan Leafs because they had no active thermal management. All other EVs do, and batteries are expected to last the life of the vehicle. Yes, there are a few failures, but premature engine failures in ICE vehicles are hardly uncommon. The short battery lifespan myth is based on ignorance, people thinking their heavily abused cell phone battery lifespan relates to an EVs battery lifespan when they are completely different.

Oh, and for those saying EVs can't scale, they need subsidies, try looking at fossil fuel subsidies. Globally they topped one trillion $ last year. If you were paying the real cost of fuel for your fossil burner, you wouldn't be able to afford to drive it.

 

Isn't there a safety mechanism where it does not turn on until connected to a real plug or jack or something?
There better be
I just took a brief look at a few of the connectors I have no experience with any of them so this is more of a question than a statement.

On the normal ones, there's a pilot contact so that it doesn't connect or disconnect under load.

 

Wow, sorry guys, but there is some shocking ignorance on display in this thread.

As for charging speed, my EV takes 20 seconds to charge. 10 seconds to plug it in of an evening, 10 to unplug it in the morning. The vast majority of EV charging is done at home, very little is done on the road (if people are charging at charge stations when they could be charging at home, then they are not only paying heaps more for charging, they really need to educate themselves on how to best use their vehicle). A big part of the perceived issues with EVs is the ignorance of this fact. EV haters all talk about EVs as if everyone hops in their cars and does 2000 mile trips every weekend.

20 seconds to charge? That's a misleading statement.

And the old myth of "EV batteries only last 3/10/[insert random number here] years" BS. The only EVs that have had short lifespans on their batteries have been Nissan Leafs because they had no active thermal management. All other EVs do, and batteries are expected to last the life of the vehicle. Yes, there are a few failures, but premature engine failures in ICE vehicles are hardly uncommon. The short battery lifespan myth is based on ignorance, people thinking their heavily abused cell phone battery lifespan relates to an EVs battery lifespan when they are completely different.

You haven't said anything useful here. What is the expected life of the vehicle?

I do like the idea of EV's simply because of the lack of an ICE and the associated unrealistic maintenance costs these days.
The most serious drawback today I think is the lack of good, reliable charging stations. There are many people who simply cannot charge at home due to physical constraints that are beyond their control.

 

Wow, sorry guys, but there is some shocking ignorance on display in this thread.
...

It's not the haters saying the EV's are not ready for prime-time in the current economic climate, it's the manufacturers saying it after investing and risking billions. The problem is demand driven. People are making a choice based on their current needs and resources.

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...-factory-ramp-demand-fears-spread-2023-10-19/
Tesla joins GM, Ford in slowing EV factory ramp as demand fears spread

To prevent demand from waning, market leader Tesla, with industry-leading profit margins, has been the first and most aggressive in slashing prices, forcing others to follow suit and squeezing margins.

But Musk said higher financing costs due to rising interest rates meant to fight stubbornly high inflation in some cases almost entirely offset the price reductions, making consumers looking to shift away from gas-guzzling vehicles wary.

"If interest rates remain high ... it's that much harder for people to buy the car. They simply can't afford it," Musk said, adding he would "accelerate" expansion of the Mexico factory if interest rates come down.

That is not expected in the United States until June 2024, based on current market estimates , with recent robust economic data suggesting the central bank might leave interest rates higher for longer.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-gm-and-even-tesla-are-warning-about-the-ev-market-194905657.html
Ford, GM, and even Tesla are warning about the EV market

"We are also moderating the acceleration of EV production in North America to protect our pricing, adjust to slower near-term growth in demand, and implement engineering efficiency and other improvements that will make our vehicles less expensive to produce, and more profitable," CEO Mary Barra said in her Q3 shareholder letter. GM, in pushing back its EV truck expansion earlier this month, noted “evolving EV demand” as the main reason why it was slowing its EV truck volumes.
Even Tesla (TSLA) CEO Elon Musk, perhaps the biggest EV evangelist in the industry, poured cold water on the EV market and general economic landscape. Musk noted on Tesla’s conference call last Wednesday that the company was delaying construction of its upcoming Gigafactory in Mexico due to concerns about global economic conditions stemming from rising interest rates that make financing cars more expensive for consumers, thus crimping demand.
“I’m worried about the high interest rate environment we’re in,” Musk said, adding, “I just can’t emphasize enough how important cost is. … We have to make our products more affordable so people can buy [them].”

It seems to be a sensible response to market conditions.

 

The problem is demand driven.

If there ever was a real demand (i.e. similar to ICE vehicles), the mfgrs. would not be able to meet it. Period.

There won't be enough poor third-world children to waste their short, brutal lives digging up the rare earths required.

And there won't be enough reliable wind/solar power to charge them.

EVs will not scale. Ever.

 

...that's a problem with the capitalist system...

Why make it so obvious how little you value life?

 

Why make it so obvious how little you value life?

+1

Communist system EV.
Chinese EV Startup WM Files For Bankruptcy
https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/13/chinese-ev-startup-wm-files-for-bankruptcy/

“But in 2020, Weltmeister’s cars started exploding. In October of that year, Weltmeister recalled some of its vehicles due to a problem with spontaneous combustion, which the company attributed to faults in the battery production process. Chinese business news website 36kr counted at least 10 incidents of spontaneous combustion involving Weltmeister cars from 2020 onward.” Van Wyk reported.

 

+1

Communist system EV.
Chinese EV Startup WM Files For Bankruptcy
https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/13/chinese-ev-startup-wm-files-for-bankruptcy/

I find it hilarious that Chinese companies declare "bankruptcy".

It's like, if they use the right words often enough in a seemingly relatable context, the ID10Ts of the world will believe they actually practice some form of capitalism.

 

I find it hilarious that Chinese companies declare "bankruptcy".

It's like, if they use the right words often enough in a seemingly relatable context, the ID10Ts of the world will believe they actually practice some form of capitalism.

They file "bankruptcy" the same way you "own' your house in China, you don't.
https://www.lehmanlaw.com/resource-...allow-private-ownership-of-real-property.html

Is it correct that China does not allow private ownership of real property?

Yes, that is correct. Because China is a socialist country, all land is either subject to government ownership or collective ownership.

 

If there ever was a real demand (i.e. similar to ICE vehicles), the mfgrs. would not be able to meet it. Period.

There won't be enough poor third-world children to waste their short, brutal lives digging up the rare earths required.

And there won't be enough reliable wind/solar power to charge them.

EVs will not scale. Ever.

But what’s your response when the poor third-world children no longer have to dig up these rare earths?
Technology is a moving target. One day, something is made of unobtainium; then it is made of everywhereium! Deep mining in the US southwest. Scaling up of lithium battery recycling. Underwater mineral nodule mining. All have the potential to change the current economics of EVs. Think of the people who claimed that automobiles could “never” replace horses because, well, where are they going to get gasoline?

 

But what’s your response when the poor third-world children no longer have to dig up these rare earths?
Technology is a moving target. One day, something is made of unobtainium; then it is made of everywhereium! Deep mining in the US southwest. Scaling up of lithium battery recycling. Underwater mineral nodule mining. All have the potential to change the current economics of EVs. Think of the people who claimed that automobiles could “never” replace horses because, well, where are they going to get gasoline?

New large-scale mining in the US?

You're funny.

 

Think of the people who claimed that automobiles could “never” replace horses because, well, where are they going to get gasoline?

Gasoline replaced EVs!

 

...
Think of the people who claimed that automobiles could “never” replace horses because, well, where are they going to get gasoline?

The problem with the argument is value: Modern EVs are nowhere near as superior to Modern ICE cars as early cars were to horses. The EV today is a shiny horse designed to act like a traditional car. Trying to make them usable for unstructured, long-distance journeys for holidays or business is making them unaffordable but that's what people demand (I don't blame them) if it's marketed as a replacement for their 10yo ICE car that's running perfectly fine and will likely be fine for at least another 10 years.