There are Lithium Metal batteries that combust in metal fires (class D) when they burn so the confusion is understandable when the term Lithium Battery is used, as Lithium-ion batteries are a flammable liquid fire (class B).

Lithium Metal batteries are being researched for the next-gen EV battery.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a42749016/why-lithium-metal-batteries-fail/
https://www.iata.org/contentassets/...b9/lithium-battery-guidance-document-2021.pdf

 

Ok. So you say we should keep on burning the stored sun light.
Thank you .

I said no such thing. IMHO we should build a LOT more nukes with the latest (safest) technologies and get rid of the ridiculous laws that prevent us from recycling nuclear waste. The fact we're not taking these obvious steps exposes the un-seriousness of the doomsayers. They're not interested in a solution that doesn't enslave their neighbors.

 

There are Lithium Metal batteries that combust in metal fires (class D) when they burn so the confusion is understandable when the term Lithium Battery is used, as Lithium-ion batteries are a flammable liquid fire (class B).

Lithium Metal batteries are being researched for the next-gen EV battery.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a42749016/why-lithium-metal-batteries-fail/
https://www.iata.org/contentassets/...b9/lithium-battery-guidance-document-2021.pdf

Much scarier prospect on many levels.

 

Yes, but to be clear a Lithium Ion battery fire is not a metal fire. This is the key point. For a metal fire you use a Class D extinguisher, for a Lithium Ion battery fire you use water.

Hi there,

Are you absolutely sure of this?
I ask not really to question the validity, just to verify because I would like to prepare for an accident using water, so I just want to be absolutely sure it will work, and the house won't burn down.

 

The history of energy consumption shows that new sources don't replace old ones, they add to them. Each source grows in its respective niche where it's economically favorable. Wind and especially solar do seem to compete in certain niches and I think we'll see more and more solar farms despite the horrible environmental impact of their manufacture. I'm not convinced wind has much future. Maybe offshore.

Hi,

As to the history part, that's not what i have seen, for the most part that is.
For example, who uses carbon zinc batteries anymore. Yes, some people still do because they think they are getting a break on cost, but alkalines took over for the most part.
For another example, who uses NiCd's in power tools or anything else for that matter. Yes, some products still have them but only when necessary. NiMH along with Li-ion have taken over that market for the most part.

Although i think you are right in part, I see that the new technology begins to dominate, and once it gets to a certain point, the old tech falls to the side and gets buried in some historical article.

I was a somewhat strong believer that solar would never do much to change things, but after working with one of the newer type panels i can see why these are so interesting. I get watt hours for free. It's amazing how much too. For cloudy days you need storage of course, and batteries come into the picture again.
Since we have seen other new battery technology come about and even start to dominate, i would think even newer technology would go even further.
Of course it takes time. In battery history it's still fairly recent that we had Li-ion cells come into the picture and it's been many years since the first carbon zinc battery. How long it takes to get an even newer technology going strong is hard to say, but it seems evident to me that it will happen. There are just way too many people looking into this because of the now extreme importance of battery technology.
Is there a battery technology "ceiling"? Too hard to say at this point, but engineers and scientists can be very clever, at least some of the time (ha ha).

 

Whatever. [Rolls eyes.]

I value your opinion, but you seem to have something against progress.
You own an oil rig? ha ha.

 

I value your opinion, but you seem to have something against progress.
You own an oil rig? ha ha.

Yes. I have my life, and that of my family's, invested in affordable, reliable energy.

 

"...progress..."

I hate this word. It doesn't mean what you think it means.

Historically, it means death.

 

Hi there,

Are you absolutely sure of this?
I ask not really to question the validity, just to verify because I would like to prepare for an accident using water, so I just want to be absolutely sure it will work, and the house won't burn down.

I am sure but you are unlikely to be able to extinguish the fire without a hose. It requires a great deal of water because the main mechanism is taking th heat from the fire. Better you should have something that can contain the fire, like a metal pan, and remove it to the outside.

 

Hi there,

Are you absolutely sure of this?
I ask not really to question the validity, just to verify because I would like to prepare for an accident using water, so I just want to be absolutely sure it will work, and the house won't burn down.

Using water on a flammable liquid fire can be dicey.


They are best handled by smothering (like the foam we used in the Navy) it with a coating agent. I would use a ABC or K fire extinguisher on a small fire with water around the source to prevent spread.
https://www.grinnellmutual.com/insu...-control-bulletins/Class-K-Fire-Extinguishers

• Forming a soapy foam on the surface of the hot cooking oil, holding in the vapors and steam, and smothering the fire. (A process known as saponification.)

 

Using water on a flammable liquid fire can be dicey.


They are best handled by smothering (like the foam we used in the Navy) it with a coating agent. I would use a ABC or K fire extinguisher on a small fire with water around the source to prevent spread.
https://www.grinnellmutual.com/insu...-control-bulletins/Class-K-Fire-Extinguishers

• Forming a soapy foam on the surface of the hot cooking oil, holding in the vapors and steam, and smothering the fire. (A process known as saponification.)

The two best household fire extinguishers are the dry chemical ABC type (very messy!) and the fire blanket which is overlooked and very good indeed for kitchen fires and the like.

Fighting Lithium Ion battery fires with water is the domain of fire departments and it requires so much water that you would flood your house trying it.

 

The two best household fire extinguishers are the dry chemical ABC type (very messy!) and the fire blanket which is overlooked and very good indeed for kitchen fires and the like.

Fighting Lithium Ion battery fires with water is the domain of fire departments and it requires so much water that you would flood your house trying it.

Fire departments will flood your house for any type of fire. I had a roof fire once. Due to luck and my previous Navy fire fighting experiences I mainly it out before the trucks arrived. I could tell they were ready to go gang-busters (I understand that's their job) with the water but I told them I'd stopped the fire inside, keep those axes and hoses the hell out of the interior, just go to the roof and handle that bit of smoke left.

 

During my combat robotic days I remember a lolly Polly pack got pierced buy the opponents weapon it was getting hot in the owner was able to remove it before anything happened so we dropped it into a bucket of water to prevent the inevitable fire. That entire bucket of water was steaming before the l lolly Polly batteries we're out of juice. They store an impressive amount of energy.

 

I am sure but you are unlikely to be able to extinguish the fire without a hose. It requires a great deal of water because the main mechanism is taking th heat from the fire. Better you should have something that can contain the fire, like a metal pan, and remove it to the outside.

Oh ok, well thanks.

BTW, I have two fire blankets i keep close by.
I also have fire pouches (Amazon), but they may be too small.

 

I said no such thing. IMHO we should build a LOT more nukes with the latest (safest) technologies and get rid of the ridiculous laws that prevent us from recycling nuclear waste. The fact we're not taking these obvious steps exposes the un-seriousness of the doomsayers. They're not interested in a solution that doesn't enslave their neighbors.

My apologies, just trying to see what people are expecting to use to drive as a fuel,
so for cars / vans etc, your saying use nuclear,
which Im guessing means Hydrogen / batteries.
Thank you

 

Everything has problems, even solar.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/21/solar-farms-energy-power-california-mojave-desert
How solar farms took over the California desert: ‘An oasis has become a dead sea’

 

Everything has problems, even solar.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/21/solar-farms-energy-power-california-mojave-desert
How solar farms took over the California desert: ‘An oasis has become a dead sea’

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...be-recycled-so-they-re-piling-up-in-landfills

 

I guess we will have to declare it a war against global climate change, therefore making the sacrifices more acceptable.

 

I guess we will have to declare it a war against global climate change, therefore making the sacrifices more acceptable.

Yes. Human sacrifices.

Such is the way of "progress".

 

The government is probably reluctant to declare war on climate change because they keep losing them (Drugs...Poverty).