its versus it's (Ignore this post if you don't care about grammar.)

Brownout

Joined Jan 10, 2012
2,390
I wish this site would adopt the policy, as other sites I visit have done, to discourage discussing grammatical mistakes, typos, mis-spellings etc. as a general rule. We come here to discuss electronics, not to crituque other's grammer. I'm sure there are lots of grammer and language forums on the web, though I've never visited one.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,979
I wish this site would adopt the policy, as other sites I visit have done, to discourage discussing grammatical mistakes, typos, mis-spellings etc. as a general rule. We come here to discuss electronics, not to crituque other's grammer. I'm sure there are lots of grammer and language forums on the web, though I've never visited one.
As you say, you've never visited one. On occasion I have, but only when seeking out information about a specific grammar issue that I am interested in. But most of the specific grammar issues that I SHOULD be interested in I don't seek out information on because, very likely, I am completely unaware that it is an issue at all unless someone points it out to me. So these sites are pretty useless for discovering what issues you have with your grammar.

While I agree that harping on them should be discouraged, I think discussing them or pointing them out when they appear to be a consistent pattern is a useful thing.

We pretty strongly discourage using textspeak? Why? Is it that much harder to decipher than something written with poor grammar? We often claim that the reason is that posters, particularly students, need to learn to communicate in a professional manner. Isn't communicating in a profession manner also include using grammar that is not excessively horrendous? Yes, we need to be aware that a forum lends itself to rapid responses that, by their nature, tend to be poorly proof read. Yes, we need to be aware that non-native English speakers use the forum and temper/suppress grammar callouts accordingly.

I think it would be nice if there was a button on each post that was marked "Grammar and Style" that, if selected, would copy the post over to a specific "Grammar and Style" forum in which people could discuss it and pick it apart and offer suggestions on how to do it correctly. This would also provide a forum where Grammar and Style questions could be asked and where people could come to seek, are just peruse, the threads to pick up what they can and find issues that they didn't realize they even had.
 

THE_RB

Joined Feb 11, 2008
5,438
People on the west coast who talk like that are non-native english speakers or those who grew up in a non-native english speaking community.
...
In what age group? I would agree with you if we we talking solely about 40+ year old people.

But the hispanic influence is very strong in schools, and with the averaging effects that always happen with young impressionable people in close proximity the language and pronunciations change to match;

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/09/pew-hispanic-center-students-college/2146697/
"Record rate of Hispanic students heading to college - May 9, 2013 - The rate surpassed the rate of white students for the first time -
Nearly seven in 10 Hispanic members of the high school class of 2012 — 69% — enrolled in either a two- or four-year college last fall, up from 49% in 2000, - More native-born Hispanic students - "

http://www.ascd.org/publications/ed.../vol67/num05/The-Latino-Education-Crisis.aspx
"The Latino public school population nearly doubled between 1987 and 2007, increasing from 11 to 21 percent of all U.S. students - Texas and California, the Latino school-age population is already approaching one-half of all students. In these states, the future is already here."

So if half the kids in school say "assessory" instead of "accessory" and "seption" instead of "exception" do you think the other 50% of the kids will insist on correct English pronunciation? And which half are the "tougher", "streeter" kids who have greater influence on their peers? Last time I was in school the pimply white grammar nerd had a lot less influence on others than the tough street kids did. ;)

Tracecom said:
... And don't forget that the United States of America doesn't have an official language
...
Wow. Before the rebellion America was part of Britain, and the schools were British and the official language of education and politics was very much English. Did the founding fathers abolish that? Does the constiution have a clause; "English has stopped being the official language now"? Or did they kind of gloss over the issue and let it be?

http://answers.usa.gov/system/selfs...URATION=1012&CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE&ARTICLE_ID=3206
"* Official Language of the U.S.
There is no "official" language for the United States, although some individual states list English as their official language. If you would like the United States or your state to adopt an official language, you should contact your elected officials."

Straight from the Government website huh. I think they are prepping you for a future where the entire country speaks "Mexglish". Given the current rate of ethnic change that will be in about 20-30 years.
 

Brownout

Joined Jan 10, 2012
2,390
So if half the kids in school say "assessory" instead of "accessory" and "seption" instead of "exception" do you think the other 50% of the kids will insist on correct English pronunciation? And which half are the "tougher", "streeter" kids who have greater influence on their peers? Last time I was in school the pimply white grammar nerd had a lot less influence on others than the tough street kids did. ;)
As I said, kids that talk like that are those who grow up in non-english speaking communities. I went to school in Houston, Tx, with a large hispanic school age population. Alot of my classmates were 2nd generation immigrants. Later I lived on the west coats for 12 years. In all that time, I didn't observe children learning to speak as the mexican children did on more than a superficial level. Most non-immigrants in the US use correct pronounciation, as influneced by local customs and accents. I have a feeling you haven't spent much time in the US.
 
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Brownout

Joined Jan 10, 2012
2,390
We pretty strongly discourage using textspeak? Why? Is it that much harder to decipher than something written with poor grammar? We often claim that the reason is that posters, particularly students, need to learn to communicate in a professional manner. Isn't communicating in a profession manner also include using grammar that is not excessively horrendous? Yes, we need to be aware that a forum lends itself to rapid responses that, by their nature, tend to be poorly proof read. Yes, we need to be aware that non-native English speakers use the forum and temper/suppress grammar callouts accordingly.
I think we would be better to focus on electronics, math and other technical matters. Carping on about grammer distorts the purpose and often creates an adversial relationship between questioners and responders. I am on websites where this is discouaged, and it works well.
 

Georacer

Joined Nov 25, 2009
5,182
It's not about alerting the country of a nuclear strike. It's more like making fine brush strokes to complete a good painting.

Oh, and thanks for the correction.
 

Thread Starter

tracecom

Joined Apr 16, 2010
3,944
I want to be corrected on spelling and grammar use.
There is no grammatical, punctuation, or spelling error in your sentence. The use of the word "use" is entirely correct; "use" may be either a noun or a verb. Substituting "usage" would have also been correct, and would have been slightly more specific than "use." Spelling grammar with an "e" in the last syllable would not have been correct.
 

t06afre

Joined May 11, 2009
5,934
We pretty strongly discourage using textspeak? Why? Is it that much harder to decipher than something written with poor grammar? We often claim that the reason is that posters, particularly students, need to learn to communicate in a professional manner. Isn't communicating in a profession manner also include using grammar that is not excessively horrendous? Yes, we need to be aware that a forum lends itself to rapid responses that, by their nature, tend to be poorly proof read. Yes, we need to be aware that non-native English speakers use the forum and temper/suppress grammar callouts accordingly.
I would say yes. SMS language is much harder to read than a posting written in poor English. It is also a major difference. Then a posting is written in SMS language. The poster do just that because he/she is lazy and sloppy. This is most often not the case then a posting is written in poor English. However on this site. It is not a problem that posters are picked on due to bad English
 

Brownout

Joined Jan 10, 2012
2,390
There is no grammatical, punctuation, or spelling error in your sentence. The use of the word "use" is entirely correct; "use" may be either a noun or a verb .
No, usage is correct.

Definition of USAGE

1
a : firmly established and generally accepted practice or procedure
b : a uniform certain reasonable lawful practice existing in a particular locality or occupation and binding persons entering into transactions chiefly on the basis of presumed familiarity
c : the way in which words and phrases are actually used (as in a particular form or sense) in a language community


So if you're going to use the English language, be sure to practice the correct usage.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/usage
 
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WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,979
I think we would be better to focus on electronics, math and other technical matters. Carping on about grammer distorts the purpose and often creates an adversial relationship between questioners and responders. I am on websites where this is discouaged, and it works well.
The focus IS on electronics, math, and other technical matters. The degree to which grammar is mentioned is quite low and is usually seen in places where the incorrect usage influences the technical communication. The instances where people go off on a tangent "carping" about grammar is pretty rare.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,979
No, usage is correct.
He never said that it wasn't:

Substituting "usage" would have also been correct, and would have been slightly more specific than "use."
You seem to be saying either that "usage" is the only correct word to use there or, more specifically, that "use" is incorrect.

I don't know the answer for sure, but it would seem that finding a reference that supports the claim that "usage" is a correct word to use there says nothing about whether using the word "use" is correct or incorrect.
 

Brownout

Joined Jan 10, 2012
2,390
He never said that it wasn't:



You seem to be saying either that "usage" is the only correct word to use there or, more specifically, that "use" is incorrect.
That's exactly what I'm saying.

I don't know the answer for sure, but it would seem that finding a reference that supports the claim that "usage" is a correct word to use there says nothing about whether using the word "use" is correct or incorrect.
If you don't know, then look it up. I gave an example of the correct usage of both words.
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
I rarely point out grammar usages, on this forum. In others, I will at times, especially if someone is arguing about something and they remind me when they state "I no the regulation." These are not ESL (English as a Second Language) adults. These are people who enforce portions of the U.S. Code on a daily basis. I remind them that their language skills are reflecting poorly on them and the organization they represent.
 

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,782
I say trading grammatical correctness for political correctness is folly. That's why a disturbing percentage of the American population can't convey a clear thought in written text to begin with. I applaud our ESL members who can write better than our high school graduates. You makes us look bad, but you give the world hope.
 

THE_RB

Joined Feb 11, 2008
5,438
As I said, kids that talk like that are those who grow up in non-english speaking communities. I went to school in Houston, Tx, with a large hispanic school age population. Alot of my classmates were 2nd generation immigrants. Later I lived on the west coats for 12 years. In all that time, I didn't observe children learning to speak as the mexican children did on more than a superficial level. Most non-immigrants in the US use correct pronounciation, as influneced by local customs and accents. I have a feeling you haven't spent much time in the US.
Correct, I'm guilty of observation from afar.

However I do watch a lot of US reality type TV shows with real Americans speaking (or let's say they may be running in the background while I do things). Also maybe being from afar brings a level of unbiased analysis, I really don't care how the younger US generation speaks apart from a general interest in studying human behaviour and changes in it over the decades of my life.

Anyway I'll get off the topic of ethnic affected language as it could easily offend, I probably should have not gone in that direction anyway. :)

Re grammar and electronics and in a lighter note, I was changing AA cells in an appliance today, and saw this (exact wording);

"Do not insert in reversed polarity, do not charge or dispose of in fire."

Now maybe it's just me, but it appears they are telling me "do not charge the battery in a fire". I will make sure to obey that! :D

Any grammar experts here who want to have a go at that one?
 
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