I would not be spending a certain amount of time and energy on this subject if I were only interested in dismissing every claim. I try to point out obvious fallacies and lies, while also setting out how to go about conducting reasonable experiments to establish if more efficient electrolysis can be made to happen.

Nothing I have seen so far suggests that there is any truth to the process. Every circuit posted, as well as every explanation has a certain level of flim flam associated with it. The reported thousands of users don't seem to be found for testing claims of increased gas mileage.

This just in: Application of an electric field (details not reported) can reduce fuel viscosity. That leads to better vaporization out of the injector, and up to 20% better gas mileage.

 

BEENTHERE:

I would not be spending a certain amount of time and energy on this subject if I were only interested in dismissing every claim.

Who are you trying to convince? And why?

CLICK THE SCHEMATIC AGAIN WITH THE MOUSE TO ENLARGE IT, the res is fine, otherwise get firefox

NO, the capacitor does not go across the primary. It is wired in series like this:
+____+_____+
Mosfet Coil Capacitor
-_____-_____-
The capacitor is there to forcefully discharge the circuit by applying back voltage. The larger the cap the better.

A forced discharge in the primary of a step up transformer would induces a stronger potential in the second winding than a non-discharged circuit. The flux field collapses faster.

The high voltage is applied to dielectrically insulated, parallel plates (preferrably 304 stainless steel, conditioned with low amps). If you've ever watched an electrolytic capacitor explode, you know what is about to happen. The high voltage resonant step charging effect (created by using a diode on the secondary side) separates water to hho. The high voltage means less amps is consumed to achieve the same effect (though the effect is not the same)
Good luck

 

You came to us, not the other way around. As I see it, beenthere isn't trying to convince anyone, just pointing out the obvious more articulately than most. All of us agree with the goal, but there is a method to science, which hasn't been applied in the slightest to HHO. Science is about repeatability and exact descriptions. You don't need to be obscure to describe something accurately, the big words are there to describe things it would take 5 or more words other wise. I have to agree with the assertion that the obtuse descriptions I've seen are meant to confuse, not clarify.

 

CLICK THE SCHEMATIC AGAIN WITH THE MOUSE TO ENLARGE IT, the res is fine, otherwise get firefox

I already have firefox. I also have failing eyesight, as mentioned previously. The res is also poor, by the way.

NO, the capacitor does not go across the primary. It is wired in series like this:
+____+_____+
Mosfet Coil Capacitor
-_____-_____-
The capacitor is there to forcefully discharge the circuit by applying back voltage. The larger the cap the better.

Now that's just plain silly. The words you've chosen mean nothing when strung together like that!

The high voltage resonant step charging effect (created by using a diode on the secondary side) separates water to hho.

The diode is only being used to rectify the secondary. It serves no other purpose. Nor can it.

Again, Farlander... we will be happy to assist you in learning about electronics. But you must make an effort here. You can begin by learning what the terms actually mean, instead of randomly stringing them together. We have a good online text which you can access via the tabs at the top of your screen. Please make use of them.

 

What Meyer - and you - don't understand is how a voltage multiplier works. See Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_multiplier.

People who patently do not have any understanding of electronics look silly at best when trying to accomplish advances in the field.

Interesting question - if old Stan had this stuff figured out, why are there provisions in his 555 pulsers for such a wide variation in frequency and pulse width? I could see a fine trim to hit the proven correct setting, but adjustment over a very wide range implies that his little electronic box was sniped out of someone's hobby circuit for a source of variable frequency pulses with adjustable pulse width. It's the only bit of electronics attributed to him that works - very unlike him in that respect.

If I design a discreet 1000 Hz oscillator, I put in a 5% trim to make up for the inaccuracy of the components. Putting in ranges of 1 Hz to 100,000 Hz might make it seem as if I had no idea of what I was about.

 

Beenthere:

Interesting question - if old Stan had this stuff figured out, why are there provisions in his 555 pulsers for such a wide variation in frequency and pulse width? I could see a fine trim to hit the proven correct setting, but adjustment over a very wide range implies that his little electronic box was sniped out of someone's hobby circuit for a source of variable frequency pulses with adjustable pulse width. It's the only bit of electronics attributed to him that works - very unlike him in that respect.

I don't think the 555 circuit was actually Stan's design. I have a schematic that is supposedly his design, but the component values are not labeled, not even the ICs... I will post when I'm back on my home computer and see if you guys can help figure it out by the symbols. Thanks for the info on the voltage multiplier, that may be useful.

Thingmaker:

The diode is only being used to rectify the secondary. It serves no other purpose. Nor can it.

I disagree with that statement about the diode. This is pulsed DC, no rectification necessary.
Question: When a charge is placed to an electrolytic capacitor, and that charge is suddenly turned off, does the capacitor "backfire" for lack of a better term? If so, then the diode is preventing discharge back through the transformer, and causing step charging into the water.

P.S. there's a free program called virtual magnifying glass http://downloads.sourceforge.net/magnifier/Vmg3.3.1_install.exe?use_mirror=osdn it's awesome

 

There's a lot of talk about resonance in water fuel HH0 cells, The design of the cell and the circuit attached to said cell's set the conditions for resonance The dielectric value of water only effects the capacitance of the cell. Resonance the way Meyer uses the term means the relationship of all the parts of the circuit IE the inductors and the the capacitors resistors and the diode. Depending on the Q of said arrangement even the volume and kind of water makes a large difference in the frequency also the waveform of the pulsed DC ( not just a square wave 555 form) He calls it a tidal wave form made of many small peaks and valleys in each pulse. Harmonics has a large effect in gas production including induced magnetic fields in the cell design. All these factors make the final result. My experiments show this all to be true and repeatable . Any questions e-mail me questions and I'll do my best to answer.

 

What Meyer - and you - don't understand is how a voltage multiplier works. See Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_multiplier.

People who patently do not have any understanding of electronics look silly at best when trying to accomplish advances in the field.

Interesting question - if old Stan had this stuff figured out, why are there provisions in his 555 pulsers for such a wide variation in frequency and pulse width? I could see a fine trim to hit the proven correct setting, but adjustment over a very wide range implies that his little electronic box was sniped out of someone's hobby circuit for a source of variable frequency pulses with adjustable pulse width. It's the only bit of electronics attributed to him that works - very unlike him in that respect.

If I design a discreet 1000 Hz oscillator, I put in a 5% trim to make up for the inaccuracy of the components. Putting in ranges of 1 Hz to 100,000 Hz might make it seem as if I had no idea of what I was about.

ORDINARY ELECTROLYSIS USES LO VOLTAGE ABOUT 1.3 VOLTS PER CELL LOTS OF AMPS ( BASICLY A DEAD SHORT ) CONSIDERING THE WATER CONTAINS CHEMICALS TO MAKE THEM CONDUCTIVE. The reason people pulse the circuit is because or the very currant the water gets so hot it boils. Meyers water stays about 95f
Stanly Meiyer knew exactly what he was doing the proof is he used distilled water no additives and HV over 250 volts lo amps used few watts and produced enough gas to run a 1500CC VW engined auto without any other fuel. He also brought a working device to the US Patent office to prove concept. Not over unity but actual results with no chemicals in the water. Michael Faraday couldn't disassociate the water molecule using electronics because electronics didn't exist. How could he discover anything even close. All he had was a battery. I think he was pretty amazing considering what he had to work with. I have personaly measured 2 identical 18 tube cells only difference between the two was internal wiring and found a capatance 120 mf and 67 mf quite differance to be from internal wiring alone. one was series ond the other was parallel. USING A NEW LCR METER

 

waterman, i am the water bearer, or hydro bearer! haha what i saw on a stan meyer patent is a stepped voltage. i have a circuit from a forest mims book that called a 4 step stepped voltage circuit that has a waveform of 4 adjustible timers and they combine to look just like 4 steps do. stans werent really square, but as you know often when sqare waves drive capacitive and inductive loads they often get rounded. i just dug the book up from the floor of my garage and its tattered and so am i. one day...anyway have you ever gotten past 6 mmw on a hho cell? i cant keep a dry cell from leaking, and i dunno if i have 316 ss and the plates are fouled up everytime i want to run tests. this stuff dont come easy..that is true factual data on true efficiency. is there a soul in the world besides boyce that has a solution to make electrolysis more efficient?

 

i dont want to effect the production, i want to crack hell out of water and produce massive amounts. dc electrolysis using lots of amps is brute force. but except for boyce and that indian guy and some larkish sketchy stan stuff it is like we do it or copy boyce or hit the majic waveform by lots of tests. i also stopped by a altenator/starter repair shop and the guy gave me an altenator for free that has a blown regulator so soon i will play with that for triple pulsed nirvana i dunno watt i am doing results

 

My experiments show this all to be true and repeatable . Any questions e-mail me questions and I'll do my best to answer.

That is not the way it's done. You show the device and the means to make it work. Meyer was declared a fraud, largely because he couldn't get things working with someone looking over his shoulder.

What is the driving circuit? Oh, it's a secret. How do you make the cell? Oh, it's very hard to make. Oh, I'd show it off, but my brother-in-law is driving down to Miami Beach in it now. He's only going to use a pint of water and no gas on the round trip!

Frankly, if your explanations are not more substantive than Meyer's, who wants to listen? If nobody is going to do more than hint about how "I've got mine working, but won't discuss it except in private" then I think you're just trolling for suckers.

It's put up or shut up time, at least in these forums. Several of us who participate in these forums would be happy to make a working copy and give test results. No such thing happens. It's all just so - secret.

As I have noted, it's always one excuse or another. The actual device is never brought out. It is never tested, except for a glowing report on an increase in mileage. I don't care a bit for how willing you are to shill for each other - I don't see anything to test.

And if any or all of the collective you is unwilling or unable to produce some actual circuitry and operating conditions, then that will tell the rest of us something. Excuses about protecting yourself from the agents of the oil cartels won't cut it - you feel completely free to brag about having the device work.

Post up something to test, or find another place to tell lies.

 

Any of U guys got some money to put whare your mouth is I HAVE ONE THAT I WOULD BE GLAD TO SELL FOR REAL MONEY. IF IT DOSEN'T WORK DON'T PAY.

 

Any of U guys got some money to put whare your mouth is I HAVE ONE THAT I WOULD BE GLAD TO SELL FOR REAL MONEY. IF IT DOSEN'T WORK DON'T PAY.

If what you are saying is true, then get it out there, being a billionaire is waiting for you.

The fact that you expect the sceptical to stump up cash to look at for what seems logically BS is frankly laughable.

Dave

 

Define "doesn't work" and what type of collateral will you offer in such case. Would you be willing to put the money in escrow at a bank until both sides had agreed on it working? If it does not work within 30 days, then the money plus 20% liquidation damages would be returned to the client, right?

John

 

Define "doesn't work" and what type of collateral will you offer in such case. Would you be willing to put the money in escrow at a bank until both sides had agreed on it working? If it does not work within 30 days, then the money plus 20% liquidation damages would be returned to the client, right?

John

Don't count on it John, this thing is so good and ground-breaking that it is worth holding onto until someone comes along and stumps the cash up; ask William E. Brooks! (Not that Brooks cared as he got most of his money back in a court settlement that found this whole debacle to be fraudulent).

Dave

 

Escrow is fine ( 1 WEEK )The size of the money for me is the only issue. Working means acting like a normal automobile With the exception NO DEAD DINOSOUR FUEL OR ANY CARBON BASE FUEL or tank only natural water. No back seat .The aria filled with what makes it work SO ALL CAN SEE. Any questions? I dont care who buys as long as it's very PUBLIC. TV would be good. No more SECRETS.

 

Escrow is fine ( 1 WEEK )The size of the money for me is the only issue. Working means acting like a normal automobile With the exception NO DEAD DINOSOUR FUEL OR ANY CARBON BASE FUEL or tank only natural water. No back seat .The aria filled with what makes it work SO ALL CAN SEE. Any questions? I dont care who buys as long as it's very PUBLIC. TV would be good. No more SECRETS.

I have a suggestion for you: Contact Professor Micha3l Laught0n at Qu33n Mary, University of London, he was originally suppose to assess Meiyers "fuel cell" but Meiyer prevented him from conducting the necessary test making all manner of excuses (I wonder why!). Professor Laughton is an expert in both renewable energy technologies and electrical energy efficiency; he advises select committees in both Houses of the UK Parliament on such matters. Importantly, for you, Professor Laughton embraces the entrepreneurial spirit of innovation and invention and if your idea is real (as you so believe it is) he will both validate your claims as one of the pre-eminent experts in this field and will likely progress you to both fame and fortune.

Submit an overview of your proposals and ask that he conduct an independent study to validate (or not) your proposal: M.A.Laughton@elec.qmul.ac.uk

Keep us posted on how it goes; unless of course it works, in which case you will be one of the most famed scientists/engineers/entrepreneurs.

Dave

 

Escrow is fine ( 1 WEEK )The size of the money for me is the only issue. Working means acting like a normal automobile With the exception NO DEAD DINOSOUR FUEL OR ANY CARBON BASE FUEL or tank only natural water. No back seat .The aria filled with what makes it work SO ALL CAN SEE. Any questions? I dont care who buys as long as it's very PUBLIC. TV would be good. No more SECRETS.

One week escrow is fine, if you can get it working in that time. Send me a contract. Don't forget the liquidation damages and collateral. What price are you thinking about? I have a 2000 Honda Accord, if that will make a difference.

John

 

What I am doing is only easily applied to a carb engine. My car is a 1988 Jeep CJ

 

I'm not interested in experimenting how much energy does it take a gallon of gasoline from a gallon of dinosour guts. Talk about efficiently .