EHT power supply design and construction

#12

Joined Nov 30, 2010
18,224
If you genuinely find certain passages of the tutorial lacking in perspicuity
First, I have to look up, "perspicuity"...

"clearness or lucidity, as of a statement."

Even your offer to examine anything lacking perspicuity requires fairly intelligent people to use a dictionary.
It is my opinion that any writing which requires a dictionary, three or four times per paragraph, lacks perspicuity.
I would say you are writing a tutorial for nerds, not a literary tour de force, but that would be false.
 
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Thread Starter

Aleph(0)

Joined Mar 14, 2015
597
when (some of) our readers inevitably accuse us of attempting to turn AAC into JHU:rolleyes:;):D
Ha ha HP! Cuz that's happened too many times:p! So not here if you please:rolleyes:!

then too, there is my "Occam’s Razor complex";););)
HP I love it! Self diagnosis at its best:D!

Much more disturbing are the burgeoning number of clowns whose appalling recklessness (especially with X-Radiation)
HP You mean like that jacka$$ sitting at his PC doing fluoroscopy of his hands, arms and the keyboard and exposing his entire body to the totally unshielded tube for like 5 minutes:eek:! I say ARS is too f''ing good for him cuz he said it was stupid when he's doing it:rolleyes:! I estimated dose of 3 Gy which probably didn't kill the fool but hopefully gave him stern lesson! HP I know I can be like you say emotional marshmallow but I feel sorry that he has to worry about huge increased risk for neoplastic disorders for rest of his days:(

Which reminds me... Have you got fairly underway on 'instruments' installment yet?
HP I'm working on it:)! Now my turn to ask what happened to _reassurance_ about non equalized hv rectifiers:p?
 
To those that try any of this without knowing or taking necessary precautions, it will or would just be an acceleration of the Darwin principles.
Acceleration or deceleration?

The Darwin awards are given to those that support the thesis against evolution. Maybe their bloodline includes felines ... After all curiosity killed the cat. :)

Of course, the analysis of the Darwin winners will bring up the nature / nurture treatises.

As much as I detest willful ignorance and abject stupidity for its diminution of societal 'tone' and incalculable damage owed same on a yearly hourly 'basis' -- I'm bound to say I hold the likes of W. Northcutt (et al) in much lower 'esteem':mad: --- Derivation of pleasure, amusement (and, I might add, profits) from others misfortune is just plain wrong minded and, in the former cases, viciously puerile! --- IMNSHO Northcutt is a bitter social misfit-cum-misanthrope whose base sadism is exceeded only by her (IMO, well founded) self-loathing...

Again, I have nothing but contempt for the willfully ignorant -- It's merely that I refuse to 'fall below' them via dancing on their graves:(:(:(

Best regards
HP

PS -- To be clear -- The above 'rant' is directed exclusively at Wendy Northcutt and her 'dreary crew' --- Sadly, taken 'holistically', I'm bound to admit that 'The Darwin Awards' aren't entirely without their humorous aspect:)
 
Even your offer to examine anything lacking perspicuity requires fairly intelligent people to use a dictionary.
It is my opinion that any writing which requires a dictionary, three or four times per paragraph, lacks perspicuity
I was unaware of any 'obscure' usage? -- Perhaps same owes to dialectical variations?
In any event, it may be that 'heavy going' is the price to be payed for precision --- Ambiguity, on the other hand, is intolerable!:eek::eek::eek:... ---So... Please -- In addition to any other concerns -- when encountered, promptly direct us (Aleph and/or myself) to specific instances of perceived ambiguity! Including cases wherein same is engendered by correct but 'obscure' usage!

I would say you are writing a tutorial for nerds
I dunno? -- What is the definition of 'nerd' this year?;):)

...a literary tour de force,
Hardly that! --- Merely a drearily utilitarian guide:oops: -- Which may --by addition of later 'chapters'-- attain to the dignity of a 'Handbook':):):)

Very best regards
HP:)
 
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Ha ha HP! Cuz that's happened too many times:p! So not here if you please:rolleyes:!
Are you offering to 'take on' the Health Physics primer? -- If not, kindly shaddup!!!:p:D

HP I love it! Self diagnosis at its best:D!
Whatever!:rolleyes:

HP You mean like that jacka$$ sitting at his PC doing fluoroscopy of his hands, arms and the keyboard and exposing his entire body to the totally unshielded tube for like 5 minutes:eek:!
Among others:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I say ARS is too f''ing good for him cuz he said it was stupid when he's doing it:rolleyes:!
---Emphasis added---

Seems a common 'theme' -- To be filed alongside such 'jewels of wisdom' as: "I'm not worried! By the time it catches up with me, they'll have a cure for it!...":rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:o_O

I estimated dose of 3 Gy
Assuming the video was not retouched, I put it somewhere in the range 280 rd ↔ 350 rd - IOW -- I concur!

which probably didn't kill the fool
300+ rd/3+ Gy ≈ the LD50/(60 Days) So... Assuming otherwise good health and access to modern healthcare facilities -- he likely survived ---- Still...:(

but hopefully gave him stern lesson!
There's little doubt of that...

HP I know I can be like you say emotional marshmallow but I feel sorry that he has to worry about huge increased risk for neoplastic disorders for rest of his days:(
Indeed! It's a high price to pay for a few minutes' stupidity:( - I wouldn't wish poor health on my worst enemy! -- Even so, just or not, lamentable consequences are not uncommonly the wages of negligence and irresponsibility...

Now my turn to ask what happened to _reassurance_ about non equalized hv rectifiers:p?
In case you hadn't guessed -- my latest 'wrestling match' with LtSpice is in that regard!:D:D:D --- Please keep watching the 'rectifier thread':):):)

Best regards
HP:)

 
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Thread Starter

Aleph(0)

Joined Mar 14, 2015
597
HP You know I agree with you that Northcutt is a class A #1 scumbag cuz of like kicking corpses! Now I am also saying that her published academic papers (based from reading abstract) is ether lame joke or totally bad PR for her alma mater:rolleyes: Now I'm saying her existence could be used as argument against Darwinism but that's assuming she's in human species which I doubt! HP I say Darwin Awards would be fair for stupidity that harms others! So like Walter Freeman and like him could be poster child! Only thing about that is menaces usually survive their own evil:( So I just wanted you to know I agree:)!

Are you offering to 'take on' the Health Physics primer?
HP you know that's not exactly under my purview but close enough if you insist;)?

kindly shaddup!!!:p:D
In your dreams:D!

To be filed alongside such 'jewels of wisdom' as: "I'm not worried! By the time it catches up with me, they'll have a cure for it!...":rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:o_O
I know smokers and psychonauts and idiots careless about stds who like that one:rolleyes:

Indeed! It's a high price to pay for a few minutes' stupidity:(
HP I say all _make or break_ deeds are done in a few minutes or sometimes just seconds so I say is not for punishment its just like you say corollary! I mean it's not hiding profound message to say _if you break it, it will be broken_

In case you hadn't guessed -- my latest 'wrestling match' with LtSpice is in that regard!:D:D:D --- Please keep watching the 'rectifier thread':):):)
HP Plz don't take my phony bitching seriously! cuz I'm totally more patient than you which isn't saying very much:D!
 
HP You know I agree with you that Northcutt is a class A #1 scumbag
Now you're being a 'marshmallow' again!:cool: --- IOW: Ab-so-lute-ly!!!

HP you know that's not exactly under my purview but close enough if you insist;)?
Kind of you to offer -- Howbeit I feel the demands of affirmative public relations favor non-luminous readers:p (apologies for invocation of a rather ludicrousness, quaint misconception:oops:)

I know smokers and psychonauts and idiots careless about stds who like that one:rolleyes:
You're a very streetwise 'preppy', Aleph(0)!:p:p:p

HP I say all _make or break_ deeds are done in a few minutes or sometimes just seconds so I say is not for punishment its just like you say corollary! I mean it's not hiding profound message to say _if you break it, it will be broken_
+1000 :cool:

I'm totally more patient than you which isn't saying very much:D!
What an Aleph believes!:rolleyes::D

All the best
HP:)


 
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Thread Starter

Aleph(0)

Joined Mar 14, 2015
597
HP I have problems with hv meter which is like problem you were telling me about in e last night which is what you posted about last summer on thread here: http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/a-sticky-problem.112253/
HP Plz pay attention! My problems are not from corona on meter movement or meter's circuitry components or like that cuz only happens when there is corona _outside_ meter enclosure and nowhere near big divider resistor! When that happens it causes needle to wander upscale to like 1.5X or 2X accurate reading and also needle is _ticy_ in step with sound from corona! HP it's DC so how on earth can corona that is not on divider resistor or movement cause erroneous upscale readings:confused:!
 
HP I have problems with hv meter which is like problem you were telling me about in e last night which is what you posted about last summer on thread here: http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/a-sticky-problem.112253/
HP Plz pay attention! My problems are not from corona on meter movement or meter's circuitry components or like that cuz only happens when there is corona _outside_ meter enclosure and nowhere near big divider resistor! When that happens it causes needle to wander upscale to like 1.5X or 2X accurate reading and also needle is _ticy_ in step with sound from corona! HP it's DC so how on earth can corona that is not on divider resistor or movement cause erroneous upscale readings:confused:!

Short answer -- Corona induces RF (i.e. high frequency AC) components on the EHT rail and an indicator implementation comprised of a purely resistive divider/ D'arsonval movement is 'uncompensated' --- IOW: It's 'Transmission line theory 101':D:D:D

Hey @Aleph(0) --- I'll post more on this topic later -- Gotta run!

PS @Aleph(0)
To be clear: I am well aware that you know what 'RF' means -- 'Tis merely that I endeavor to keep public discussions 'public friendly':):):)
 
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Thread Starter

Aleph(0)

Joined Mar 14, 2015
597
HP I told JC he can post here if he minds his manners like you said but I say you should talk to him cuz he's super depressed cuz of feeling rejected:(! HP Now I'm going to tell you your cold hardheartedness has to stop cuz correcting grammar in heartfelt letters and email and ignoring content is just cruel:mad:! HP I'm saying this out in open cuz if he becomes regular on thread we should know where we all stand!
HP Now he sends peace offering cuz he knows you like to embed videos for fun so he says this is dedicated to you:D
I'm hoping that works cuz regular html messes it up. Also I'm freaked cuz lead in sounds like Rotax engine swan song:mad:!

Short answer -- Corona induces RF (i.e. high frequency AC) components on the EHT rail and an indicator implementation comprised of a purely resistive divider/ D'arsonval movement is 'uncompensated' --- IOW: It's 'Transmission line theory 101':D:D:D
So you mean _signal_ components all the same from like disruptive discharge? At first I was confused cuz I'm thinking of components meaning like electronic parts so I was like wtf:confused:!? Now I am asking what is remedy? I say maybe lp Pi section lc filters in return line and between lv end of big resistor and meter? HP I'm saying it needs to be on both sides like that cuz HV is totally floating?

I'll post more on this topic later
HP It's good thing I wasn't holding my breath:rolleyes:!

Gotta run!
:eek:HP Now I say you weren't joking about ODing on coffee when reupped pics to blog:p!
 
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So you mean _signal_ components all the same from like disruptive discharge?
Correct --- As a practical matter (for these purposes) corona discharge is (a mode of) disruptive discharge...

I say maybe lp Pi section lc filters in return line and between lv end of big resistor and meter?
Addition of low 'Q' inductors (i.e. 'RF Chokes') to each line may be sufficient -- such may be implemented via the wrapping of several turns of said lines onto ferrite toroids or beads fashioned of appropriate material (e.g. 'mix #43') --- Should improved 'roll off' be required, such may be achieved (as you suggest) via addition shunt capacitance{s} -- be advised, however, that avoidance of parasitic resonances over the the rather broad noise spectra requires multiple paralleled discrete capacitors per shunt...

HP I'm saying it needs to be on both sides like that cuz HV is totally floating?
Indeed! -- A purist would insist upon 'splitting' the 'dropping resistance' each 'side' of the meter - albeit such is not necessary for strictly DC metrics - ugly though the asymmetry may be!:eek:

HP I told JC he can post here if he minds his manners like you said but I say you should talk to him cuz he's super depressed cuz of feeling rejected:(!
He needs to grow up! And that begins with ceasing to employ you as an intermediary!:rolleyes:

HP Now I'm going to tell you your cold hardheartedness has to stop cuz correcting grammar in heartfelt letters and email and ignoring content is just cruel:mad:
Wise one say: He who would pine for the 'Arctic' is well advised to acclimate himself to frost!:rolleyes::D -- Actually, I 'borrowed' the idea (i.e. responding to annoying or otherwise inappropriate correspondence via parsing the offending missives for grammar then returning same to the sender) from a 'vintage' film -- The title of which, annoyingly, escapes me at the moment:confused:...

HP I'm saying this out in open cuz if he becomes regular on thread we should know where we all stand!
Really? Silly me! Somehow I arrived at the ludicrous notion that your public airing of this matter was with the aim of eliciting a (direct) response on my part? Golly, golly!:rolleyes:

HP Now he sends peace offering cuz he knows you like to embed videos for fun so he says this is dedicated to you:D
Yo! JC? -- I daresay, instead of cardiology, the nature of your 'ailment' comes more properly under the discipline of neurology -- IOW: it's not so much 'a hammer in your heart' as 'an anvil in your head'!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: --- For all that, your constructive participation on this thread is welcome!:) So please! Pull yourself together!...K?:cool:

HP It's good thing I wasn't holding my breath:rolleyes:!
I tend to agree! Purple just ain't you!:eek::p:cool:

Best regards
HP:)
 
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@Aleph(0)

This is to advise you that the 'next move' is yours! --- The tutorial will continue if and when you post the addendum!
As a matter of form, I have responded to your request for 'direction' on This Thread

Please don't waste my time or further try my patience with vows of sincerity! -- Quite despite ongoing promises and assurances you have contributed little to nothing to this effort! - Moreover, not a chance is missed to reduce the tone of this thread to that of a "three-ring circus" at your every opportunity! -- If you wish to proceed you need only publish a draft of the addendum! -- 'Nuff said!

With regards
HP
 

Thread Starter

Aleph(0)

Joined Mar 14, 2015
597
@Aleph(0) --- I'm a hair's breadth of chucking this entire project into the bin! -- Be advised that your ongoing insincerity (as evinced by your false alacrity) is not encouraging!:rolleyes:
HP Just cool it! Ok I'll write it only don't go on at me if it sucks cuz it's you who's being impatient now! You ought to try accessing this site through my VPN! I am sick to death of having to reload 5 or 6 times every-time I do anything including login and post and click any forum button! And no one INCLUDING YOU is able to give straight answer about how to work around trouble cuz it works on a lot of other sites! So is it's just easier to blame me? Ok, I'm so, so, sorry for circumstances beyond my control that you are clueless to solve also! Feel better now?

Actually, I 'borrowed' the idea (i.e. responding to annoying or otherwise inappropriate correspondence via parsing the offending missives for grammar then returning same to the sender) from a 'vintage' film -- The title of which, annoyingly, escapes me at the moment:confused:...
I think it was _Up The Down Staircase_ anyhow the letter writer committed suicide when corrected letter was returned so is that funny? Is that what you want? HP you say you're not misanthrope so what do you call it?

Really? Silly me! Somehow I arrived at the ludicrousness notion that your public airing of this matter was with the aim of eliciting a (direct) response on my part? Golly, golly!:rolleyes:
HP that's a bunch of cynical BS and you know it! You're never going to let me forget what I said about you being more approachable in public so fine, score one for HP:rolleyes:! Now get some new material!

HP now its my time to say _to be clear_ I honestly say that my participation on here and the tutorial is what I look forward to most of all! HP what you see as reluctance to create content is only cuz I've backed myself into corner with _Aleph lingo_ if I step out of character I'll just be thought of as a kid putting on airs! HP I know you're thinking this is just another rationalization but like you said posting the draft will cut through all that so next time I post you'll see:)!

HP I know I'm in super glass house to be saying this to you but you should pay attention to my words instead of what you think I'm saying between lines! It's like you said _not very often but sometimes what you see is what you get_ :D

Now I give my word that my next post here will be rough draft of tool addendum:cool:!
 
You ought to try accessing this site through my VPN! I am sick to death of having to reload 5 or 6 times every-time I do anything including login and post and click any forum button! And no one INCLUDING YOU is able to give straight answer about how to work around trouble
What part of "Obviate the requirement of a VPN for personal business via purchase of a notebook for personal use only" don't you understand? There can be no 'security issues' if said system contains no 'work related' or otherwise sensitive information! --- If you wish, I'll send you one! - Please let me know what you'd like?:)

I think it was _Up The Down Staircase_ anyhow the letter writer committed suicide when corrected letter was returned so is that funny? Is that what you want?
I very much doubt suicide is in JC's plans!:rolleyes: -- For the record, we're talking about a fully competent 25 year-old! ---- But to your broader point - Unbidden idiocy 'in my name' is not my problem!:rolleyes:

HP you say you're not misanthrope so what do you call it?
I dunno --- Will "Reverse-Philophobia" (≈ 'aversion to followers') do?:D

HP that's a bunch of cynical BS and you know it! You're never going to let me forget what I said about you being more approachable in public so fine, score one for HP:rolleyes:! Now get some new material!
Curious that you should first decry my comment as 'BS' then, in the next breath, confirm same:confused::D

HP what you see as reluctance to create content is only cuz I've backed myself into corner with _Aleph lingo_ if I step out of character I'll just be thought of as a kid putting on airs!
I wouldn't worry about that -- Keep the 'lingo' if you like - just lose the SMS speak and cool it with (especially awkward) split infinitives and idiomatic expressions -- The goals are 1) Communication and 2) Maintenance of an educated/professional tone --- Perfect grammar is not necessary:) --- BTW, I notice that you've adopted my suggestions (Re: posting) in regards to setting off ideas each to a 'paragraph' -- Thanks! Please 'stay the course' when you compose the addendum!:)

HP I know I'm in super glass house to be saying this to you but you should pay attention to my words instead of what you think I'm saying between lines! It's like you said _not very often but sometimes what you see is what you get_ :D
Fair enough! --- You've merely to establish a course of conduct in sync with your 'words' and it's a done deal!:cool::cool::cool:

Now I give my word that my next post here will be rough draft of tool addendum:cool:!
That'd be an excellent start!;) Or, to paraphrase Eli Wallach: "When ya have to write - write! Don't talk"!:):):D

All the best
HP:)
 
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@Aleph(0)

As promised (somewhere back in the Precambrian Era:oops:) Here is your 'measure' of reassurance as regards the viability of EHT rectifier strings sans equalization capacitors:

The modules shown below are designed for 60Hz operation and, correspondingly, comprised of standard recovery diodes (i.e. Trr≈1.2us) --- Fully twelve times slower than typical 'fast' EHT rectifiers (e.g. the "2CLG30kv/20mA" )

Please consider the following:
As we've seen, the angular recovery delays (assuming sinusoidal excitation) are as follows :

For Trr=100ns Freq=50kHz:

(360°*50kHz)*100ns=1.8°

For Trr=1.2us Freq=60Hz

(360°60Hz)*1.2us=0.026°

Yielding worst case regurgitation EMFs of Epeak*Sin(1.8°) and Epeak*Sin (0.026°) Respectively -- which being more than adequate as regards the exciting signal in each case.
Note that, despite the line-frequency circuit's apparently much greater 'safety margin', it is, in fact, significantly more vulnerable to transients than is the 50kHz circuit (owing to the protracted recovery time of the former's diodes)

All of which is to say:
Although the rectifier modules (pictured below) are more vulnerable to transients than the rectifiers we'll be using they neither feature nor require equalization.

100kV rectifier modules each comprised of 21 series connected 5.5kV diodes.
VaroStix.JPG


80kV half-bridges comprised of 20 series connected 10kV diodes (10 diodes each leg)
HalfBridge.JPG


Two 150kV bridges each comprized of 40 18kV diodes (10 diodes each leg)
DualBridge.JPG

All the best
HP
:)
 
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JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
I like that your doing this HP. I am sure you will address the safety issues (health and electrical) sometime, but ultimately the end user must exercise their due dilligence, after all, the ass they save maybe their own. At lower keV levels, the potential will come out and greet you.

That blue arc one see's and subsequently feels can be serious.
 
I like that your doing this HP. I am sure you will address the safety issues (health and electrical) sometime, but ultimately the end user must exercise their due dilligence, after all, the ass they save maybe their own. At lower keV levels, the potential will come out and greet you.

That blue arc one see's and subsequently feels can be serious.
Your points are well taken!:) -- Please rest assured that we (@Aleph(0) and myself) take the issues presented by the not inconsiderable electrical and radiological hazards attendant to these projects very seriously - and, in point of fact, are engaged in an ongoing (for the most part, off-list) discussion on the matter (said discussion to become public upon moving on to the next tutorial in the series) --- In the meantime, in case you're interested, insight into our concerns/ideas in this regard may be gleaned via perusal of a few posts beginning HERE

Best regards and many thanks for your interest and concern!:)
HP

PS
@JoeJester
In the process of 'testing' the link I see you were a party to some of said posts -- Apologies for the redundancy and again, many thanks for your interest!:):):)
 
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