It's your story, not mine. I'm the one not understanding how you can say it's a meek and friendly dog that attacks other dogs. Read your first post.

Hi,

Seriously? You cant understand how one dog can be friendly and another one very nasty even if the same breed?
If you found some sort of contradiction then post the sentences that seem to be contradictory and i'd be happy to clear this up for you.

 

Hi,

Seriously? You cant understand how one dog can be friendly and another one very nasty even if the same breed?
If you found some sort of contradiction then post the sentences that seem to be contradictory and i'd be happy to clear this up for you.

he is like a good old friend and very afraid of anything that goes bump in the night. So he's rather meek even though he barks up a storm with strangers.

The only problem is, he thinks everything small like a stuffed animal is a chew toy, and so he proceeds to 'play' with it, and then ends up ripping it to shreds.
It already killed one small doggie by accident and it tore the leg off another small doggie.

That sounds like a contradiction to me. @MrSalts, don’t you agree?

 

That sounds like a contradiction to me. @MrSalts, don’t you agree?

I do. Thanks for posting. And he was only talking about one dog in post #1. I don't know why he's talking about multiple dogs now.

 

That sounds like a contradiction to me. @MrSalts, don’t you agree?

Apparently he's nice to humans not to small animals like a smaller dog. I suppose he may chase a cat too but havent seen that yet.

 

I do. Thanks for posting. And he was only talking about one dog in post #1. I don't know why he's talking about multiple dogs now.

Apparently he's nice to humans not to small animals like a smaller dog. He might also go after cats what a contradiction that would be huh?
A dog who is nice to humans and chases cats...what is this world coming to

 

Apparently he's nice to humans not to small animals like a smaller dog. He might also go after cats what a contradiction that would be huh?
A dog who is nice to humans and chases cats...what is this world coming to

Whatever.

 

What has a world come too... I have spent 2 werks on training in Rochester, NY. There are daily reports of gun violence. Too bad you cannot blaim pit bulls for it...



And I am talking about people here

 

How ever much you train them, Dogs are unpredictable animals by nature.
They lack the ability to reason, proven with scientific based tests.

 

How ever much you train them, Dogs are unpredictable animals by nature.
They lack the ability to reason, proven with scientific based tests.

And a myriad of unscientific “Disappearing Dog Owner” videos.

https://youtube.com/shorts/lVllknjxnfs?feature=share

 

Dogs for the most part are going to be what they are trained to be. Can some be unpredictable? Yes, without a doubt. Would I trust a dog alone with a child? Yes, if the dog were mine. Bear pictured below was a mix Golden and Maybe Rot. He was a tiny puppy when I got him. Pictured with Bear is Alexis our then maybe 5 year old granddaughter. She would nap on him and he would never move till she woke up from her naps. She could lead him around by his jowls and that dog would follow her everywhere. They were bonded. Only once did Bear get slightly vicious. Family gathering at my mom's house. I heard my daughter scream and bear barking and growling. Ran into the living room where Bear had my daughter cornered. I asked what the hell happened? Daughter went to spank granddaughter while in front of Bear. I told her never do what he perceives as a threat to that child. All he really did was corner daughter placing himself between daughter and granddaughter. Told our daughter never discipline the child in front of him.



Bear peaked at about 130 pounds but was always a great protector. Today that child is a college freshman. Over all the years and all the dogs Bear will always be fondly remembered.

How about service dogs or companion dogs? How about military dogs? These dogs all interface well with humans. Dogs are what people make them. The city of Lakewood, Ohio (West Side Cleveland, Ohio) specifically banned the Pitbull breed. The law was overturned.

The old law:
" No person may keep, harbor or own pit bull dogs or canary dogs in Lakewood, Ohio, with exceptions for dogs in the city on the effective date. A dog may be allowed to stay provided it has a microchip for identification, has been sterilized, the owner has liability insurance of $100,000, and the dog is properly confined or secured. Failure to comply could result in the removal or impoundment of the dog. The owner may also be charged with a misdemeanor".

The new law:
Lakewood no longer has breed specific legislation. All dogs are welcome in Lakewood. With this legislation change came new, rigorous classifications for and restrictions on dogs based upon their behavior and bite history.

A good example of people creating legislation for things they know nothing about.

Ron

 

I have studied cases where a dog grows up with the kids and are perfectly fine, a real family dog,, and even for e.g. when a relatives dog visits and everyone is fine, dogs included, When adults are present.
The child goes outside to play and takes the dogs with them, It has happened so often where for some reason, may be a hierarchy thing with the animals, but so many times it often ends in either the child being mauled, or death of the child.
Dogs actions are mainly driven by instinct when faced with something never before presented to them, their actions then, sadly, become very unpredictable.
Just one of many I have read of with exact scenario..
https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=19930807&slug=1714789

 

How ever much you train them, Dogs are unpredictable animals by nature.
They lack the ability to reason, proven with scientific based tests.

That's interesting but i wonder what level of reasoning they are talking about. This dog knows the sound of a can opener opening his food

I've seen too many cases where the animal becomes unpredictable though. Even animal experts are wrong sometimes and they pay the ultimate price.

 

Dogs can't reason, well I have to call BS on that one.

Animals that reason are the most unpredictable, as they can draw different conclusions in every situation, as opposed to pure instinct which is mostly predictable.

 

. This dog knows the sound of a can opener opening his food
I've seen too many cases where the animal becomes unpredictable though. Even animal experts are wrong sometimes and they pay the ultimate price.

Although that is not reasoning, having prior knowledge of it, he knows the outcome already.
I have seen a couple of very interesting documentaries on the subject of animal reasoning, these were carried out in a scientific manner.
No pre-biases involved.

 

Dogs for the most part are going to be what they are trained to be.

I think you mean, "Dogs are going to be what they are bred to be." For example, it is very difficult to train the herding instinct out of a Shepard. We had an Aussie Shepard here for a while, it would walk back and forth behind us when we took walks and he had never seen a sheep or a herding event in its life. There are many other instincts bred into dogs. Guess which ones are bred into bulls? Do you think you can train the herding instinct out of an Aussie? I don't. Therefore, I have no confidence that anyone can train the maul out of a pit bull.
Note, you can keep reinforcing the Aussie to follow next to you on leash but the instinct is always there as soon as you take the leash off or if he is walked by someone new (I.e. someone who has not rewarded non-herding leash behavior).

 

There is definitely such a thing as an I.Q., and a "disposition", in every Dog.
Some Dogs are absolutely brilliant, while others just "react" like a robot, or may not react at all.

There is no good or useful reason for the Pit-Bull breed to exist.

They were bred for the absolutely SICK purpose of Dog-Fighting for ""Sport"".
That's what they do best, and they're not well suited to any other purpose.
.
.
.

 

Although that is not reasoning, having prior knowledge of it, he knows the outcome already.
I have seen a couple of very interesting documentaries on the subject of animal reasoning, these were carried out in a scientific manner.
No pre-biases involved.

Humans are animals and are subject to same basic constraints. Difference is that we have developed higher levels of abstract thinking. When under stress, that "higher level" is reduced significantly...

Here is an example of a dog reasoning and making a rational decision: i throw sticks in the water for my husky. One day she noticed a big log floating nearby as she was retrieving her stick. She contemplated getting both at once but i could see she realized right away it was going to be too much. She brought the original stick back. Before I had time to get the stick to thow it again, she went back in the water and swam for the log that she liked. No prompting on my side. Brought it out on the shore and "killed" it. It has been really neat to watch how she has matured and learned to be a better thinker in the last few years

 

I have no 'skin in the game' so to speak, I am just going by personal experiences and reports, as well as scientifically acquired data.
Incidentally, some specie of Birds, came out very much higher of the particular animals that were tested. In the ability to reason.
I find it strange that of the cases I quoted, including the unfortunate example I posted, where otherwise very tame appearing dogs suddenly react to situations they are not familiar with where children in particular get mauled as in post #91.
No one has appeared to do any research, why?
At least none that I have found to date, in spite of it being a fairly common occurrence.

 

https://phys.org/news/2022-06-responsible-ownership-key-dog.html

This problem seems to be looked at in the same way as gun and drug and other similar issues - if we ban it, it will go away. This is of course the easiest way as it allows us to ignore deeper societal and individual "people" problems. After all, who wants to admit that the issue is internal?

 

I think you mean, "Dogs are going to be what they are bred to be." For example, it is very difficult to train the nursing instinct out of a Shepard. We had an Aussie Shepard here for a while, it would walk back and forth behind us when we took walks and he had never seen a sheep or a herding event in its life. There are many other instincts bred into dogs. Guess which ones are bred into bulls? Do you think you can train the herding instinct out of an Aussie? I don't. Therefore, I have no confidence that anyone can train the maul out of a pit bull.
Note, you can keep reinforcing the Aussie to follow next to you on leash but the instinct is always there as soon as you take the leash off or if he is walked by someone new (I.e. someone who has not rewarded non-herding leash behavior).

I gotta say that is interesting. Something to think about.