Pretty straight line over the past few decades. No significant jump
perhaps the reason is reporting. nowadays every death is attributed to Covid.

 

elderly depend on medical care, need their cane or walker, access to washroom every 50m, access to bed or sofa for long naps etc. also they already lived long full lives so try the meds on them all you want. even if things don't go as planned, damage is minimal.

Sounds like you were a big supporter of the so called "death panels" that were claimed to be part of the Affordable Care Act. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_panel

Can only hope you're lucky enough to get to the age of many of us, and have the experience of the disabilities.

 

wrong again... and don't get me started on that one. that is no different - it is also selfish view driven by money.
and why the views or solution need to be always so radical or extreme, from one end of the spectrum to another?

how about something more ... moderate? something based on science and facts? not the media rhetoric "science science science" that actually means "anything but science".

i am not supporting harm on anybody or unplugging anyone unless that is their individual choice.

elderly, people with disabilities, children with Dawn syndrome etc. all have the right, and not just to live, but to live with dignity.

discussion is about pandemic and potentially applying medical treatment to people who do not want it.
clearly there are different views on this. my view is that any medical treatment need to be applied selectively according to each patient needs.
but i do not support broadly applying what works for you on everyone else.
if you happen to need chemo therapy to live, do not force it on everyone else.
and do not do chemo on every child just because it would make you feel less scared.

if someone is sick or contagious, quarantine them all (vaccinated or not) and treat them. no problem there.

but do not abuse or punish healthy people for things that YOU are suffering from or afraid of.
the young and healthy are the ones that keep things running and making YOUR care possible.

Covid is no different. so called Covid deaths are largely affecting people with underlying conditions and elderly. that is the fact.
median age for Covid related death in Canada is 80. median age for hospitalized is also well over 60.
i could not find single case of normally healthy 5-year old kids that died or got severely ill of Covid. but there ARE cases where kids had bad reaction to Covid vaccine.

so forgive me if in light of that i still do not think that 5-year old should be subjected to some experimental treatment and risk myocarditis because "risk is low" and some 70-80 year old is afraid that he may die a bit earlier even though he is aware that he has the underlying condition, but chooses not to stay home and away from risk factors and has ignored them all his life ("smoking all my life, had heart attack, drunk like mad, always checking girls".) but now that same crybaby is complaining that there is not enough hospital beds.

give me a break....

and if you are double or triple vaccinated, and STILL have fear that you may catch Covid, maybe the vaccine you took is not that effective.

 

i do not support broadly applying what works for you on everyone else.

That is the premise behind Smallpox, Polio, Measels, and quite a few other vaccinations that have eliminated Smallpox and greatly reduced the harm of other life-threatening diseases such as Covid! Public Education (also often private as well) and Public Service Jobs (also often private as well) are withheld from those who refuse vaccination.

i am not supporting harm on anybody

Lack of vaccination is just exactly that, doing harm unto others (as well as yourself) by being open to infection and spreading disease!

Call me biased as I've lost relatives during both the Spanish Flu Pandemic as well as this one. And doing the best I can not to become another casualty.

 

That is the premise behind Smallpox, Polio, Measels, and quite a few other vaccinations

you mean ones that actually do work and where long term effects are known

Lack of vaccination is just exactly that, doing harm unto others (as well as yourself) by being open to infection and spreading disease!

would be nice if true. Covid vaccine does little if anything to curb the spread. if vaccine would stop the spread and protect vaccinated, there would be no massive flood of breakthrough casess among double and triple vaccinated. so if you are vaccinated and you trust this vaccine, why do you care what others choose?

Call me biased as I've lost relatives during both the Spanish Flu Pandemic as well as this one. And doing the best I can not to become another casualty.

you can do with your body whatever you like but stop trying to exploit others.

 

varicella vaccine = 85% effective
mumps vaccine = 88% effective
polio vaccine = 90% effective

but

covid vaccine = 98% effective? what a load of horse manure....

if we cannot have honest and fact based reporting, if approval is rushed because of political pressure, don't blame me for having doubts if current measures.

 

if approval is rushed because of political pressure,

Like most that say the vaccine isn't safe, they don't remember who pushed for the fast implementation and roll out of them. And most doing so still see a sviour when thinking of who was responsible.

 

Please chill

 

Pretty straight line over the past few decades. No significant jump
perhaps the reason is reporting. nowadays every death is attributed to Covid.
View attachment 256542

If you are saying that the 5million that have died so far of CVF19 dont show on those scales , I agree,
If your saying the 5milion that have dies so far are insignificant, I don not agree.

 

5 million added deaths should show as a 10% jump but clearly that is not visible. conclusion is that on average, number of deaths did not change, likely because large percentage of those that died would be dying anyway due to their lifestyle or underlying conditions. unfortunately people did die but the numbers show that outcome is the same - with or without Covid..

And if Covid made no difference, fearmongering, shutting down economy, pushing various mandates and restrictions does not look effective. clearly number of deaths that directly resulted from Covid is much smaller, maybe 0.5million or even less. regardless how small the actual number is, it is still significant. every life is precious and worth saving. but are we doing what is the best? several countries have very high vaccinations rates but number cases do not subside. why is that? i do not know what the solution is but current approach is obviously not producing desired results. if this approach is still the best we have, then by all means lets continue with it but do not stop there - keep looking at alternatives.

that means lying need to stop. the best way to change someone's mind is by providing them with undisputable facts, not by attacking them and forcing your belief system on them.

stop silencing those that have other ideas or information - check it first but be honest about it. do not force us to believe the tunnel vision narrative pushed be few rich and powerful - lets look at the numbers critically. perhaps admit that vaccine is not really 98% effective, maybe 68%, maybe just 8% but whatever the number - make it real. stop calling every death Covid related death just because lying and skewing numbers may secure you more funding. and if this is not so effective, maybe do not put all eggs into one basket - maybe let people choose if they trust it or not. maybe investigate where the virus really came from. replace those that have lied about it. stop antagonizing and pitting people against each other. nobody is screaming at vaccinated people for taking vaccine. maybe those that have faith in vaccine should really just have faith in their vaccine and stop screaming insults and demanding some punitive measures against those who may have doubts.

 

I am sure many lives were saved because people all over the world were locked down rather than doing more risky things. How I long for the empty roads during the lock-downs!

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...ungs-very-well-animal-studies-find/ar-AASjwVO

A spate of new studies on lab animals and human tissues are providing the first indication of why the Omicron variant causes milder disease than previous versions of the coronavirus.

In studies on mice and hamsters, Omicron produced less damaging infections, often limited largely to the upper airway: the nose, throat and windpipe. The variant did much less harm to the lungs, where previous variants would often cause scarring and serious breathing difficulty.

“It’s fair to say that the idea of a disease that manifests itself primarily in the upper respiratory system is emerging,” said Roland Eils, a computational biologist at the Berlin Institute of Health, who has studied how coronaviruses infect the airway.

Dr. Gupta speculated that Omicron evolved into an upper-airway specialist, thriving in the throat and nose. If that’s true, the virus might have a better chance of getting expelled in tiny drops into the surrounding air and encountering new hosts.

“It’s all about what happens in the upper airway for it to transmit, right?” he said. “It’s not really what happens down below in the lungs, where the severe disease stuff happens. So you can understand why the virus has evolved in this way.”

 

5 million added deaths should show as a 10% jump but clearly that is not visible. conclusion is that on average, number of deaths did not change, likely because large percentage of those that died would be dying anyway due to their lifestyle or underlying conditions. unfortunately people did die but the numbers show that outcome is the same - with or without Covid..

And if Covid made no difference, fearmongering, shutting down economy, pushing various mandates and restrictions does not look effective. clearly number of deaths that directly resulted from Covid is much smaller, maybe 0.5million or even less. regardless how small the actual number is, it is still significant. every life is precious and worth saving. but are we doing what is the best? several countries have very high vaccinations rates but number cases do not subside. why is that? i do not know what the solution is but current approach is obviously not producing desired results. if this approach is still the best we have, then by all means lets continue with it but do not stop there - keep looking at alternatives.

that means lying need to stop. the best way to change someone's mind is by providing them with undisputable facts, not by attacking them and forcing your belief system on them.

stop silencing those that have other ideas or information - check it first but be honest about it. do not force us to believe the tunnel vision narrative pushed be few rich and powerful - lets look at the numbers critically. perhaps admit that vaccine is not really 98% effective, maybe 68%, maybe just 8% but whatever the number - make it real. stop calling every death Covid related death just because lying and skewing numbers may secure you more funding. and if this is not so effective, maybe do not put all eggs into one basket - maybe let people choose if they trust it or not. maybe investigate where the virus really came from. replace those that have lied about it. stop antagonizing and pitting people against each other. nobody is screaming at vaccinated people for taking vaccine. maybe those that have faith in vaccine should really just have faith in their vaccine and stop screaming insults and demanding some punitive measures against those who may have doubts.

You say 500 thousand dead due to Covid,
and thats with the lockdowns,
the advanced medical facilities
and the vaccines,

What are your views on the above three ?
You seem Ok with 500 thousand extra deaths from CV19
and thats with the above,

How many extra deaths would you be happy with to not do the above ?

 

I am aware that India has little love for China at this time, and this report might be heavily slanted, but I thought that some might benefit from watching this. Not that this is much of a departure from what we already knew.

 

You seem Ok with 500 thousand extra deaths from CV19

stop projecting.... i never said anything of that kind, quite the opposite. my goal is to reduce suffering, not increase it. i am just not impressed with current situation specially when narrative does not add up. it looks like some people are interested in making this situation permanent and that means continued suffering for many and endless source of revenue for select few. i don't want to be reduced to a number and mere test subject for someone's experiment. goal posts keep on moving. those who stand to gain from the situation or have been on the inside have changed story and rules too many times yet there is no progress. every milestone was toppled and reinvented and those that are supposed to lead us through this are not convincing me any more.

 

stop projecting.... i never said anything of that kind, quite the opposite. my goal is to reduce suffering, not increase it. i am just not impressed with current situation specially when narrative does not add up. it looks like some people are interested in making this situation permanent and that means continued suffering for many and endless source of revenue for select few. i don't want to be reduced to a number and mere test subject for someone's experiment. goal posts keep on moving. those who stand to gain from the situation or have been on the inside have changed story and rules too many times yet there is no progress. every milestone was toppled and reinvented and those that are supposed to lead us through this are not convincing me any more.

My apologies
You said there were probably 500k deaths from cv19 , as opposed to the 5 million reported ,
The implication I took wrongly from your comment was that was an on number.
I also understood your saying that the restrictions and vaccines has no / little effect.
My apologies for miss understanding you
For any virus it's known that the more of a group that are vaccinated the less the ability of the virus to spread .
So great that we both agree vaccinations are best and need to be promoted as much as possible.

I explained it to the kids that it's like your parents driving at night
We could drive with headlights in full beam all the time, and each of us would on our own see best, but when some one else is commimg, we both dip our lights to help each other.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59848160

Coronavirus pandemic: Antarctic outpost hit by Covid-19 outbreak

 

Australia admits problems with vaccine and it is settling with 80k severe cases. total number of Covid deaths was about 2230 (included both vaccinated and unvaccinated). more than half of deaths are since July 2021, not sure what the percentage of vaccinated was. simply looking at the ratio, for one life lost to Covid, more than 35+ people were severely injured.

 

Which vaccine? Here in the US the Johnson & Johnson single dose vax has been often pointed out as having some, but relatively few, problems. Each vax has been reported as either advantageous or not in certain situations and improved upon for the next release. At least it didn't leave me with a nasty scar at the injection site like the smallpox vax of the 50's did.

 

Which vaccine? Here in the US the Johnson & Johnson single dose vax has been often pointed out as having some, but relatively few, problems. Each vax has been reported as either advantageous or not in certain situations and improved upon for the next release. At least it didn't leave me with a nasty scar at the injection site like the smallpox vax of the 50's did.

Worst vaccine I ever had
was back in the 70's, yellow fever, in the spine,

put us in bed for three days !