Or it'll be like polio and smallpox, ie. soon a distant memory. I really doubt we know enough today to predict one way or the other.

 

Or it'll be like polio and smallpox, ie. soon a distant memory. I really doubt we know enough today to predict one way or the other.

Its all about time to mutate,
Cold and flu are fast mutaters,

Polio and smallpox are slow mutaters,

as I understand it ,the same smallpox vaccine is still in use as 25 years ago. ( OK new batches of , but )

 

Can I also inject

sorry I'm a kill joy here.

The vaccine is not a cure.

The virus is now so well spread, that like the "common" flu, it is mutating faster than we can kill it.

Our natural immunity does not seem to last more than a few months after exposure.

we can not eradicate it,

QED, Each year or so , we are going to have to update the vaccine,

also ,

its going to still be circulating,. so people are still going to be dying of it.

hand shaking is going to be stopped and masked needed for many years to come,

Sorry to put the glume on this ,

So much IMO, ill-informed, fear mongering in this post. I'm with @wayneh. We have no idea other than past experience to predict what happens. Past experience shows it's possible to reduce the amount of death to an acceptable level from X specific agent using science and old school techniques of viral control.

We adapt and move forward.

 

So much IMO, ill-informed, fear mongering in this post. I'm with @wayneh. We have no idea other than past experience to predict what happens. Past experience shows it's possible to reduce the amount of death to an acceptable level from X specific agent using science and old school techniques of viral control.

We adapt and move forward.

Totlay agree @nsaspook
we will adapt and survive,

I think I posted a while back that with population growth, its only a few weeks to make up for the deaths,
I know ,very sad, I say it as a pure engineering statement,
I have lots of sympathy for those that have lost loved ones,

The way the Ok in particular has handled it is shocking,
if we could IMHO we should impeach Bojo.

But its a fact as to what type of virus CV19 is,
it mutates fast, thus is much much harder then something like Polio or small pox to tackle

The hope is it will mutate to a form that is less contagious or one that is less disastrous to humans,
the dread is if it jump to something like birds, pigs or cattle,

We pray to our gods to give us strength and work hard with the scientists / health service to get us through

 

As the husband of a retired teacher... Teachers here are not happy over the opening of the schools. Teachers are on yearly contracts that typically allow a few sick days per year. Now, if exposed (ie a student in one of your classes infected), they are required to quarantine for 2 weeks before returning. If more than the allowed limited number of sick days are used their pay is cut accordingly. This means a whole bunch of pissed off teachers having their pay cut due to no actions or health issues of their own. Distance learning was not working and students were falling behind. Also, parents were not happy with their "free" daycare being taken away... Georgia is a non-union state btw. Kinda hard to make lemonade outta them lemons.

 

Totlay agree @nsaspook
we will adapt and survive,

I think I posted a while back that with population growth, its only a few weeks to make up for the deaths,
I know ,very sad, I say it as a pure engineering statement,
I have lots of sympathy for those that have lost loved ones,

The way the Ok in particular has handled it is shocking,
if we could IMHO we should impeach Bojo.

But its a fact as to what type of virus CV19 is,
it mutates fast, thus is much much harder then something like Polio or small pox to tackle

The hope is it will mutate to a form that is less contagious or one that is less disastrous to humans,
the dread is if it jump to something like birds, pigs or cattle,

We pray to our gods to give us strength and work hard with the scientists / health service to get us through

It doesn't really mutate that fast where it's important. There are trillions of copies in the human population all using the same spike protein trick to invade cells. The spike protein trick vaccines target is very stable because without it CV19 won't happen. While dangerous, CV19 is a mouse compared to what's possible with engineered bio-agents that also have effective vaccines.

 

As the husband of a retired teacher... Teachers here are not happy over the opening of the schools. Teachers are on yearly contracts that typically allow a few sick days per year. Now, if exposed (ie a student in one of your classes infected), they are required to quarantine for 2 weeks before returning. If more than the allowed limited number of sick days are used their pay is cut accordingly. This means a whole bunch of pissed off teachers having their pay cut due to no actions or health issues of their own. Distance learning was not working and students were falling behind. Also, parents were not happy with their "free" daycare being taken away... Georgia is a non-union state btw. Kinda hard to make lemonade outta them lemons.

Teachers need to buck-up and get back to work just like the millions of people that had to work during this entire pandemic.. The state of Oregon is giving vaccination priority to teachers ahead of the elderly because children are worth the risk. It's a value decision and IMO we give lip service to 'what about the children' but don't really value children when it matters most.

https://www.lagrandeobserver.com/co...cle_e428dcb0-5d07-11eb-aafb-4770a415727c.html

SALEM — Gov. Kate Brown said Friday, Jan. 22, she will stick with her controversial plan to vaccinate school staff ahead of elderly residents.

“My priorities have not changed,” Brown said during a press conference.

The state vaccination priority list calls for an estimated 100,000 K-12 teachers, school staff, child care workers and preschool employees to be eligible for vaccination Jan. 25.


Residents 80 and over will be eligible two weeks later, on Feb. 8. The minimum age will drop five years each week until those 65 and over are eligible on March 1.

 

Looks like Dr. Wittkowski was interviewed a couple of months ago; I think he has an interesting perspective. Given the recent attention to new viral mutations, the idea of lock downs and flattening the curve seems more dubious.

(144) Prof. Dr. Knut Wittkowski en Willem Engel | Zoom 100 Live Q&A #51 | - YouTube

 

Teachers need to buck-up and get back to work

They were never out of work. Online teaching is just as demanding as in person. But having to lose pay over something they have no control over is not sitting well with them. At least with online learning, they were controlling who they were exposed to. Lack of parental control at home was affecting the children's learning, not the online teaching. Parents were mad at having to babysit their own children. Education in this low socioeconomic area is not a priority for most parents.

 

They were never out of work. Online teaching is just as demanding as in person. But having to lose pay over something they have no control over is not sitting well with them. At least with online learning, they were controlling who they were exposed to. Lack of parental control at home was affecting the children's learning, not the online teaching. Parents were mad at having to babysit their own children. Education in this low socioeconomic area is not a priority.

Their work is in an actual classroom so I don't believe they were on the job-site.
Online teaching is a farce and a bad joke for the students (says a person with a 15yo student). The students pretend to work and the teachers pretend to care. Teacher are workers for education of children. The level of selfish greed in teaching during the pandemic (a national emergency that's used emergency powers to enforce otherwise unconstitutional powers) has been a eye-opener for a large segment of the population.

 

Their work is in an actual classroom so I don't believe they were on the job-site.
Online teaching is a farce and a bad joke for the students (says a person with a 15yo student). The students pretend to work and the teachers pretend to care. Teacher are workers for education of children. The level of selfish greed in teaching during the pandemic (a national emergency that's used emergency powers to enforce otherwise unconstitutional powers) has been a eye-opener for a large segment of the population.

Yup, a potential silver lining to the cloud. An awful lot more people are now open to alternatives eg. vouchers for private schools. The teacher unions couldn't help but expose themselves as the problem they are. Even Chicago is butting heads with their teachers' union. I never thought I'd see the day.

FWIW, my 8-yr old grandson second grader loves virtual school. He likes the efficiency of it, without all the time lining up for this or that. It's more intense and a shorter day.

 

Looks like Dr. Wittkowski was interviewed a couple of months ago; I think he has an interesting perspective. Given the recent attention to new viral mutations, the idea of lock downs and flattening the curve seems more dubious.

(144) Prof. Dr. Knut Wittkowski en Willem Engel | Zoom 100 Live Q&A #51 | - YouTube

Lock-downs and flattening the curve are resource protection mechanisms. They ultimately don't affect the total number of cases but can affect the total number of dead in most cases by managing life saving resources.

 

Online teaching is a farce and a bad joke for the students

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink is similar to you can make a child go to school but you can't make him learn. As a student, parent, and teacher, I've seen all sides of the equation. And I respectfully disagree. Too many parents look upon school as free daycare and hated every second they were forced to go to school and could not care less about education other than paying it lip service to avoid being blamed for being the root cause of their child failing classes. Teaching is a calling, not a vocation, and babysitters get paid more than teachers do. If you saw what it took for my wife to get her doctorate...

 

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink is similar to you can make a child go to school but you can't make him learn. As a student, parent, and teacher, I've seen all sides of the equation. And I respectfully disagree. Too many parents look upon school as free daycare and hated every second they were forced to go to school and could not care less about education other than paying it lip service to avoid being blamed for being the root cause of their child failing classes. Teaching is a calling, not a vocation, and babysitters get paid more than teachers do. If you saw what it took for my wife to get her doctorate...

Teaching is a job and a vocation just like any other job. I'm sick of them thinking it's something special. Some are great teachers, most are capable. It' just like plumbing.

https://abc7chicago.com/education/cps-battle-over-return-in-person-learning-rages-on/9994266/

CHICAGO (WLS) -- Chicago Public School teachers and staff were set to return to in-person learning Monday, but over the weekend, the Chicago Teachers Union voted to continue remote learning.

The Chicago Teachers Union members voted Sunday to authorize all rank-and-file educators in Chicago Public Schools to conduct remote work only.
...
They want to support their teachers, but said their children are at a severe disadvantage not being in class- especially in the Black and Latinx communities.

A group of parents plan to rally Monday afternoon outside of an Elementary School in Englewood to voice their concerns.

"For the Black and Hispanic families it's hit so much harder, COVID is so much greater," said Meredith Kroot, a rally organizer and CPS parent.

https://edsource.org/2021/initial-d...-children-hit-hardest-by-learning-loss/647563

The first California study measuring declines in learning during the first months of the pandemic parallels findings nationally: There has been a significant drop in test results in the early grades, with low-income students and English learners showing the least progress in learning.

The university-based research organization PACE released the results Monday. While finding “substantial learning loss” overall in both English language arts and math, it said average numbers “mask the reality that some students in California are suffering much more during this time than are others.”

 

Lock-downs and flattening the curve are resource protection mechanisms. They ultimately don't affect the total number of cases but can affect the total number of dead in most cases by managing life saving resources.

I think you missed the point. Flattening the curve may cause many more deaths by giving the virus time to evolve thereby becoming resistant to anti-bodies and vaccines.

 

I think you missed the point. Flattening the curve may cause many more deaths by giving the virus time to evolve thereby becoming resistant to anti-bodies and vaccines.

I file that as yet another entry under Wayne's Law of Unintended Consequences.

 

I think you missed the point. Flattening the curve may cause many more deaths by giving the virus time to evolve thereby becoming resistant to anti-bodies and vaccines.

While true in some cases I don't see much of that effect here, yet in actual numbers. Time is not the only prime virus mutation factor, replication numbers are. With no controls over reinfection the total numbers of viral replications goes exponential very fast resulting in a vast number of replication mutations in a short time in people with high viral loads. If a seriously harmful replication happens under these condition that could be much worse than limiting replications with controls over a longer time.

 

just like any other job.

Not that many jobs require a 4-year graduate degree, six months of student practicum teaching, passing a State competency examination, and a criminal background check to obtain their license to work. Just to get in the door. Then yearly continuing education to keep the job and advanced degrees to get a pay raise above minimum entry pay. 3 years minimum to become tenured and get any kind of job protection. Georgia is an at-will state without a teacher's union and holding your nose funny can get you fired with no cause given and no unemployment. In order to get decent insurance and a retirement package joining the National Educators Association (at your own expense) is necessary. No Social Security (some school systems do not take it out or unemployment insurance) and at the whims of a school board whose only criteria to be elected to is to live in the district they represent. At one point we had a school board president who was a commercial blue crabber with an 8th-grade education that thought no one should make more than 8k a year like he did. He lasted 2 terms until the schools were in such disarray the voters finally caught on and elected someone else who was not a hell of a lot better qualified even though the school system gets the majority of our tax dollars and is the largest employer in this poor county. Such is life...

 

Not that many jobs require a 4-year graduate degree, six months of student practicum teaching, passing a State competency examination, and a criminal background check to obtain their license to work. Just to get in the door. Then yearly continuing education to keep the job and advanced degrees to get a pay raise above minimum entry pay. 3 years minimum to become tenured and get any kind of job protection. Georgia is an at-will state without a teacher's union and holding your nose funny can get you fired with no cause given and no unemployment. In order to get decent insurance and a retirement package joining the National Educators Association (at your own expense) is necessary. No Social Security (some school systems do not take it out or unemployment insurance) and at the whims of a school board whose only criteria to be elected to is to live in the district they represent. At one point we had a school board president who was a commercial blue crabber with an 8th-grade education that thought no one should make more than 8k a year like he did. He lasted 2 terms until the schools were in such disarray the voters finally caught on and elected someone else who was not a hell of a lot better qualified even though the school system gets the majority of our tax dollars and is the largest employer in this poor county. Such is life...

My problem is not with the individual teacher as a person, it's with teachers unions as a mafia, that in a time of national emergency can't take the risk of actually teaching the kids in a strictly controlled classroom environment after they spent years getting qualified to teach. Their qualifications now make them less important to the nation than the guy loading toilet paper at COSTCO. The tax payers that support schools and the teaching profession will remember their actions to resist scientific data over emotional feelings after this is over as showing their calling as not being all it was purported to be.

 

I wonder why many people are afraid of getting a vaccine shot?
I am not afraid of a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine but I am wary of a new vaccine made by a new company that has never made or tested a vaccine before.