So, what proof is there that "our immune system is in bad shape because of our lifestyle"? (And I know this was not your statement, but you're being Mr. Helper so I'll throw it back at you.

How is/was "our immune system" wrt "our life style", now, 50 years ago, 100 years ago?

How do you measure such a thing?

My beef: many try to turn what are substantial improvements in the human condition into something bad. Why?

I don't know specifically about "immune system", but I don't think that there's much doubt that our general health has been negatively impacted by the food-abundant and exercise-deficient lifestyle led by a very large fraction of people in most developed countries and, increasingly, even in some developing countries. In that regard we are victims of our own technological success.

 

Joey,

This does not support my original post, but things are not as peachy as you think...

I have volunteered for MS society and it is very sad to see people my age (ealry 40s) cripled by it. This is the one that affects women the most. Autoimmune diseases are on the rises. No one knows why.

https://www.immunology.org/news/report-reveals-the-rising-rates-autoimmune-conditions

What we have done otherwise is expanded the years that those who are ill can spend being ill before they die. Not sure it is a good thing.

Disclaimer - i have epilepsy. Yes I am very happy for the medication that helps me. On the other hand, if I was born in the right society a few thousand years ago, I would have been a highly regarded shaman... In the wrong one - shunned. So there is that

 

Autoimmune diseases are on the rises. No one knows why.

Well, since no one knows why, my explanation is as good as any: there's money in it.

 

That's really an apples and oranges comparison.

For starters, the overwhelming majority of those gains are due to drastic decreases in infant mortality. Throughout recorded history someone that lived to adulthood has had a very reasonable expectation of making it to their 70s and 80s and the accepted meaning of "elderly" and "old age" have changed very little over thousands of years.

Source? Data?

How does that explain this:
Source: https://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/statbriefs/agebrief.html

During the 20th century, the number of persons in the United States under age 65 has tripled. At the same time, the number aged 65 or over has jumped by a factor of 11! Consequently, the elderly, who comprised only 1 in every 25 Americans (3.1 million) in 1900, made up 1 in 8 (33.2 million) in 1994.

 

Good, we haven't gotten to the mad scientist in the back room stirring up all this up in a petri dish and releasing it on society yet.
Somebody send me a notification when we do.
Brzrkr

 

Source? Data?

How does that explain this:
Source: https://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/statbriefs/agebrief.html

Birthrate has plummeted in 1st world countries. Checkout Japan.

 

I am sure you agree that neoplasms are a special form of disease. Cut and burn applies to that at present, but I believe that will not always be that way. We are getting there with ALL treatment and others will certainly follow.

Yes, indeed, my statement, where originally posted, was intended for application to a broader context -- To wit: acknowledgment of the (IMO) disproportionate amount of time required to develop (roughly general) effective treatment applicable to a rather common 'field' of illness (example in point being neoplastic disorders)...

Hi @Hypatia's Protege

I am sure you agree that neoplasms are a special form of disease. Cut and burn applies to that at present, but I believe that will not always be that way. We are getting there with ALL treatment and others will certainly follow.

There are so many other diseases and disorders to also address. I have the highest hopes for regenerative medicine. Let's cure degenerative joint disease by enabling our bodies to fix the problem, not by installing "made in China" hardware (just joking). There's regenerative work on retinal degeneration, liver, and lung (a propos damage from cornavirus), and so forth. I am an optimist, but the rewards will be awhile coming.

There's another area that is not cut and burn either. I am referring to reconstructive surgery. It's unfortunate there is not a completely different term to distinguish it from "rhinoplasty." You know what I mean. How do you fix a person's hand that was half-severed in a cutting shear? Or, someone with extensive trauma to their face.

In medicine, treating diabetes is not just replacing the missing insulin. We are getting closer to understanding the cause and preventing the disease, rather than simply treating it in so many people. We are not there yet, but I find it difficult not to react to those who think it should have been done yesterday. Same for MS. Those people cannot point to anything they have done to cure either.

A long time ago, I was taught that no disease was curable, except possibly, infectious diseases. I hope that will change. It won't be soon, but there is light.

Genuinely speaking, I share your optimism!

Best regards
HP

 

Growing up in the snake-infested eastern plains of Colorado, my dad's family routinely (as in several times a day at the peak in the summer) "teased" rattlesnakes to death by poking and prodding them with a long stick until they bit themselves, after which they died pretty quickly.

Hoisted by their own petards, aye? I like it!

Now somebody puhleeze tell me that a komodo dragon's 'oral flora' is similarly 'home goal' ready!

Best regards
HP

 

The great California beach revolt.

https://apnews.com/2903c0c62f97116e9ef6f5425ad0a7ac

A memo to the state’s police chiefs on Wednesday indicated Newsom was preparing to close all beaches in the state of nearly 40 million people whose identity is rooted in part in the surf and sand along its scenic coasts.
...
But Thursday, Newsom limited the order to Orange County, south of Los Angeles where the Newport Beach City Council earlier this week rejected calls to close its beach at the beginning of the busy tourism season. And nearby beaches in nearby Huntington Beach have remained open with few restrictions.
...
In Humboldt County, also near the Oregon border, Sheriff William Honsal indicated he wouldn’t enforce Newsom’s order to close beaches and state parks. “It is not OK to punish Northern California for Southern California’s mistake, and I hope he hears that loud and clear,” Honsal said in a statement Thursday.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/california-newsom-close-beaches-parks/index.html

Michelle Steele, a county supervisor, said closing the beaches is "a clear example of unnecessary government overreach."
Newsom's "actions are arbitrary and capricious and is an act of retribution against Orange County," she said. "This is not acceptable and there is no rational basis for this action."

 

You can see the Orange county daily stats here

https://www.ocregister.com/

Or just go on with your own ideas. Thanks.

 

How about this. Realistic expectations for a COVID-19 vaccine.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html
How Long Will a Vaccine Really Take?

At this point you might be asking: Why are all these research teams announcing such optimistic forecasts when so many experts are skeptical about even an 18-month timeline? Perhaps because it’s not just the public listening — it’s investors, too.

“These biotechs are putting out all these press announcements,” said Dr. Hotez. “You just need to recognize they’re writing this for their shareholders, not for the purposes of public health.”

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/downloads/cidrap-covid19-viewpoint-part1.pdf

“COVID-19: The CIDRAP Viewpoint.”

COVID-19: The CIDRAP Viewpoint working group:
Michael T. Osterholm, PhD, MPH, CIDRAP director
Kristine A. Moore, MD, MPH, CIDRAP medical director
Julie Ostrowsky, MSc, CIDRAP research associate
James Seifert, JD, MS, MPH, CIDRAP program manager
Angela Ulrich, PhD, MPH, CIDRAP research associate
Alison Kraigsley, PhD, MS, CIDRAP research associate
Maya Peters, MPH, CIDRAP program analyst
Jim Wappes, CIDRAP editorial director

Key points from observing the epidemiology of past influenza pandemics that may provide insight into the COVID-19 pandemic include the following. First, the length of the pandemic will likely be 18 to 24 months, as herd immunity gradually develops in the human population. This will take time, since limited serosurveillance data available to date suggest that a relatively small fraction of the population has been infected and infection rates likely vary substantially by geographic area. Given the transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2, 60% to 70% of the population may need to be immune to reach a critical threshold of herd immunity to halt the pandemic (Kwok 2020).

Of eight major pandemics that have occurred since the early 1700s, no clear seasonal pattern emerged for most. Two started in winter in the Northern Hemisphere, three in the spring, one in the summer, and two in the fall (Saunders-Hastings 2016). Seven had an early peak that disappeared over the course of a few months without significant human intervention. Subsequently, each of those seven had a second substantial peak approximately 6 months afterfirst peak. Some pandemics showed smaller waves of cases over the course of 2 years after the initial wave. The only pandemic that followed a more traditional influenza-like seasonal pattern was the 1968 pandemic, which began with a late fall/winter wave in the Northern Hemisphere followed by a second wave the next winter (Viboud 2005). In some areas, particularly in Europe, pandemic-associated mortality was higher the second year.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/podcasts-webinars/episode-6

 

 

Michael Jackson wearing a face mask in 2002

 

Some perspective.

I’m afraid I have some bad news, dear readers. I think Steve Martin put it best when last I heard him in concert 40 some years ago. Near the end of his flawless and hilarious standup set, he said, “Well, I think we’ve all managed to have a pretty good time tonight…considering we’re all going to die.”

...never forget that SOMEBODY was last in every class at med school

 

https://spectator.org/a-report-from-the-front/

 

Once up on a time the 'specter' of one publicly sporting a mask was cause for consternation, and, not-uncommonly, contrary to law -- thus it seems 'the tables have turned' -- funny that?

Now I have to wonder how one 'adorned' with a ski mask (complete with goggles and respirator, of course) would be 'received' in a bank lobby <<Evil Grin>>

TTFN
HP

 

Now I have to wonder how one 'adorned' with a ski mask (complete with goggles and respirator, of course) would be 'received' in a bank lobby <<Evil Grin>>

Weekend plans, HP?

 

Weekend plans, HP?

Perhaps, though I very much doubt such will include the decribed 'masquarade' -- b'cuz --apart from anything else-- I heard a rumor that even the police are guility of the occasional error or two! -- Imperfection! - Must be a 'human thing'

TTFN
HP

 

MOD NOTE: The discussions regarding "death by medicine" have been deleted because they were quickly spiraling downhill with everyone reporting everyone else. Since a civil discussion apparently can't be had, take it elsewhere.