Right now I just have the 1 button which is 1NO and bi-directional LEDs using polarity.

Seems if I can get the 2NO2NC ones that would be better. They do make those in the 2 LED 16mm version. Actually getting them just might be a challenge unless I can convince them to not use DHL. DHL takes about a week. Regular postal mail out of China takes about a month with no tracking.

 

What do you think of the last diagram?

It uses your switch.

While it does not prevent arming while fire switch is "on", green safe lite indicates that system is safe to arm.

 

What do you think of the last diagram?

It uses your switch.

While it does not prevent arming while fire switch is "on", green safe lite indicates that system is safe to arm.

I may not be understanding your diagram or we may of lost the original intent of the green LED being that it would be light green while in "Unarmed" key switch state and there is a ematch correctly attached. It would switch to red when the key switch is changed to "Arm" (reverse polarity to the button). At that point and only then the button could be pressed to fire.

Is this diagram just showing that without the "Safety" so that a button is pressed/held down and it is switched to fire it would fire with no safety.

Thinking about this it seems using this button that I have I should be able to see current across the button (pressed) while in unarmed state and be able to lock out the current if the switch is changed to armed state so that it doesn't fire.

 

Last idea is as you first suggested.

With key in safe position, green indicates current thru E-match.

Key switch in armed position shows bright red.

What has been added is, an indication of "faulty switch". Green will not illuminate if there is any current thru switch.

It would still fire immediately when armed, if a fire switch was "on".
However "no green lite" in safe mode would warn of this!


And for the last part:
I have yet to come up with a passive solution to safety lockout, without a two section switch.
Maybe tomorrow!

 

Last idea is as you first suggested.

With key in safe position, green indicates current thru E-match.

Key switch in armed position shows bright red.

What has been added is, an indication of "faulty switch". Green will not illuminate if there is any current thru switch.

It would still fire immediately when armed, if a fire switch was "on".
However "no green lite" in safe mode would warn of this!


And for the last part:
I have yet to come up with a passive solution to safety lockout, without a two section switch.
Maybe tomorrow!

Ok thanks it's clear to me now No kill yourself over this. I really apperciate all the help I've definitly learned some things.

 

Four tranistors would do the job of changing the polarity to the LEDs. Would you like it drawn for you? You pay me $25 please.

 

Ok thanks it's clear to me now

Wow, I've never heard that before.

 

Since I will have to get more buttons at some point would it be better for me to get the 2NO2NC ones? I'll probably order some of the 16mm and 22mm that you found to try them out. I still need to get some key switches as well from somewhere.

 

Nothing hurt getting the double ones.

Can you get the bi-directional leds though!

2 wire 2 color.

 

Nothing hurt getting the double ones.

Can you get the bi-directional leds though!

2 wire 2 color.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...M162H-11E-R-12V-S-IP67/737142_1955882070.html

They say that one can be made as 2NO2NC and be bi-directional which I think still uses the changing of the polarity check.

 

The only reason I prefer the same led type, is all effort thus far has been answering initial post, which specified the same.

 

The only reason I prefer the same led type, is all effort thus far has been answering initial post, which specified the same.

What do you think of this button diagram. This is the 16mm 2NO2NC button they have which has Bi-Color LED based on polarity to the 2 LED pins.

 

I forgot where we were at.

As I recall, that's what you need, to do what we discussed.

I'll refresh if you're going forward!

 

I believe so as well this is instead of the sample I received which was just 1NO (4 posts, 2 for LED with reverse polirity to change LED color)

Shipping is expensive compared to button price from china unless I have them send it via post which could take 30-40 days with no tracking.

So rather then just order a couple of buttons to try them out I'd rather just be sure this is what I want and get the 24 total (which was the plan to have a panel with 24 buttons aka as cues)

I still need to get a rocker switch for the over all power and also the key switch. I wanted a barrel type key switch that could only be removed in the off position. Further I felt that if it was a DPDT I could do the polarity reversal there at the switch for the LED but I don't know if that will be fesible if we are adding in the lock out functionality if any of the buttons are not in the open position (no pressed or partially pressed or failed).

I also what it to have a rechargable battery. Originally I picked 12v out the the air but I don't want the whole thing to be heavy and big because of the battery.

If 12v is to much or not enough I need to change that and let the company and China know so they they send the correct buttons as they either install a resistor internally or externally based on the voltage taht will be used for the LED's

 

The relay is required for fail-safe operation.

A dpdt key switch will work, and show fault before arming, but will not be fail-safe.

Either way the new type switch will work.

 

The relay is required for fail-safe operation.

A dpdt key switch will work, and show fault before arming, but will not be fail-safe.

Either way the new type switch will work.

Right but it seems if I'm not doing the polirity switch at the key I don't need it to be DPDT in the OFF position the Green LED's would illuminate with the main power switch ON and the buttons in the open position which would also activate the relay so that when the key is switched to ON the polarity would reverse making the LED's Red and also allowing the higher FIRE current to be sent to the ematches when the button was pressed.

I plan to start drawing this out this weekend just so I can get my head wrapped around it.

 

Correct, the key switch can be spst. On in the on position. Key removed in the off position.

Here is stab at where we were.
Showing 1 of X match circuits.

When master switch is turned on, all green means fire switches are safe, and ready to arm. And matches are ok.

Key switch latches "arm" relay if switches are "all" ok.
Relay reverses polarity. Red light indicates match ok.

 

WOW Thanks your awesome (and I think I almost understand all of that it will need to digest)

It looks like you have it all covered. The only thing I'm not sure of looking at the schematic is the green and red LED should not light if there is no e-match connected and or not connected correctly. Is R1 and R2 for the LED's or for the ematch? The ematch has a test current rating and fire current rating.

The only other thing is should we be including a fuse somewhere in case of short maybe at the ematch or terminal where the ematch is connected so that it all doesn't short out and either burn it all up or fire other ematches when I wouldn't want them to.

What I'll probably end up doing is making something to test in place of the ematch maybe something with 2 led's and resistors to show test current and fire current.

 

WOW Thanks your awesome (and I think I almost understand all of that it will need to digest)

It looks like you have it all covered. The only thing I'm not sure of looking at the schematic is the green and red LED should not light if there is no e-match connected Correct, all current goes thru match. and or not connected correctly. Is R1 and R2 for the LED's or for the ematch? Both The ematch has a test current rating and fire current rating.

The only other thing is should we be including a fuse somewhere in case of short maybe at the ematch Fuse at each circuit or terminal where the ematch is connected so that it all doesn't short out and either burn it all up or fire other ematches when I wouldn't want them to.

What I'll probably end up doing is making something to test in place of the ematch maybe something with 2 led's and resistors to show test current and fire current. Use an auto lamp. A 1157 draws about 1/2 amp on the tail-light part and about 2-3 ohms cold.

Let me know the test current of E-match.

In safe mode, current is thru match, led, and both resistors. (dim green)
If switch is bad, it shunts led (no lite), and current is limited by R1 only.

In fire mode R1 is shunted by diode and current is limited by R2 only.(bright red)
Fire switch then shunts led/R2 for full current thru diode.

Using the circuit in post 38........

 

The e-matches have the following: Fire current: .37A Test Current 0.5MA