To me topics and rules like this are the ones that need mass public input to most.

I'm not against clean air by any means am against excessive rules and regulations that have very little additional gains behind them despite adding substantial cost and further loss of efficiency to equipment I have to use.

On this we can agree. Some of the rules are so stupid as to defy logic.
http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2011/03/portland_ratepayers_poised_to.html

We stopped this:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/11/portland_leaders_cheer_tentati.html

So if the science is with you it's possible to beat stupid.

 

@nsaspook

You mean one size doesn't fit all?

After all, the EPA knows best.

 

@nsaspook

You mean one size doesn't fit all?

After all, the EPA knows best.

The EPA is our servant, sometimes

you have to kick them in the head a few times to remind them of that.

 

Hopefully, VW will pay up soon so that EPA can get more furniture.

 

Hopefully, VW will pay up soon so that EPA can get more furniture.

What is the point of this article? It seems like a "drive-by" blast of a few numbers and items meant to embarrass, but, if you've ever bought office furniture, you can easily spend "thousands" on a table. Note they report it is a 10 year period - it was actually quite recent that government workers got updated work centers and finally disposed their old 1950's era Steelcase desks.

If I assume cubical walls are included in the definition of "furniture" like we do, $5k per employee per 10-year period is not unusual.

I guess my question would be, are 17500 people really needed if they don't have a reasonable budget for verification testing to go with their enforcement and recordkeeping efforts?

 

It's only not advertised if one doesn't pay attention. Each and every law is passed by Congress, who's schedule and record is public knowledge.

Oh good heavens no. The EPA operates above the law and most of what they do is in violation of constitutional principles. Occasionally they get their fingers slapped by the courts, but not nearly enough.

 

I have always assumed it was standard corporate practice.

I guess some industries are different than others, but in my career I never once saw an outright attempt by a company to break a law, hoping to not get caught. We push at the edges of regulations, trying to discern just what is going to be enforced and what will not, looking for loopholes if you will. The same scrutiny you might give a competitor's patent.

But for instance I had to sign a form every year that I had not witnessed any unethical activity during the preceding year. Large, publicly held companies are, in my experience, very sensitive to such things.

That's why it'll be fascinating to see what happened at VW. The CEO resigned instead of launching an investigation. I get that. The investigation has to be top to bottom and must be credibly independent. But if I was CEO, and really didn't know about the scam, I'd be very mad and want to get to the bottom myself.

 

I frankly don't know how to handle something like the EPA. It would probably be even worse to have legislators directly trying to write laws to cover the myriad technical issues that surround "pollution". So for practical reasons they hand off that hard work and responsibility to an un-elected, extra-constitutional entity like the EPA.

But then that entity, being run by humans, immediately seeks as much power as it can seize and as little accountability as it can hide from.

I believe a partial solution might be to make them only an advisory body with no teeth to enact regulations without direct congressional approval. It would be slow and cumbersome but that's sort of the idea of the balance of powers.

 

I believe a partial solution might be to make them only an advisory body with no teeth to enact regulations without direct congressional approval. It would be slow and cumbersome but that's sort of the idea of the balance of powers.

It could also be a standing committee comprised of representatives from gov't/environmental/small & large business/private individuals that writes bills to be approved by congress. This a) saves congress from having to do its job (write legislation) and b) keeps them accountable regardless.

 

It's only not advertised if one doesn't pay attention. Each and every law is passed by Congress, who's schedule and record is public knowledge.

My first post was deleted. I'll try again:

Administrative State.

 

I guess my question would be, are 17500 people really needed if they don't have a reasonable budget for verification testing to go with their enforcement and recordkeeping efforts?

Wait till the next time there is a budget battle. A lot of federal workers could be sent home as "non-essential" until they agree upon a continuing resolution and all those "non-essential" workers will receive back pay for staying home. By the way, "non-essential" has nothing to do with the definition of "non-essential."

Desks aren't the old "steel" type anymore. You might find some but I haven't seen them since the 1980s.

 

Oh good heavens no. The EPA operates above the law and most of what they do is in violation of constitutional principles. Occasionally they get their fingers slapped by the courts, but not nearly enough.

So, what in the case of VW cheating did the EPA act above the law?

 

The regulations they create are effectively laws, unless you're wiling to fight in federal court, but these regulations have never been subjected to public discourse or voted upon by our elected representatives as required by the constitution. I don't know the specifics of the regulations related to VW, but I'll bet they were established without congressional review.

 

This is much wider than the EPA and the USA. What happened here is just the tip...

http://news.yahoo.com/volkswagen-pick-boss-tackle-emissions-scandal-113739934--finance.html

WOLFSBURG, Germany (Reuters) - Volkswagen rigged emission tests on about 2.8 million diesel vehicles in Germany, the country's transport minister said on Friday, nearly six times as many as it has admitted to falsifying in the United States.

"VW needs to think big and bold," Warburton said, urging the new CEO to offer to buy back and scrap almost 500,000 diesel cars sold in the United States, which would cost about $6 billion, as well as suspend the 100 engineers most closely associated with the affected engines and software.

They are thinking about buying every car back in the USA affected by this. That tells me how high this goes.

 

The regulations they create are effectively laws, unless you're wiling to fight in federal court, but these regulations have never been subjected to public discourse or voted upon by our elected representatives as required by the constitution. I don't know the specifics of the regulations related to VW, but I'll bet they were established without congressional review.

I was just talking to an engineer at Ford. He said there are rules that must be met but there is also a document that must accompany an approval of a new engine/car that explains how the engine controls emissions for various driving scenarios and what can happen if various items fail during the life of the car and so on. He said that the key to the VW problem is that they did not accurately describe how the system works (he was being politically correct in his phrasing - he didn't want to say they cheated).

 

I don't know the specifics of the regulations related to VW, but I'll bet they were established without congressional review.

They were passed by congress.

The 1990 changes to the Clean Air Act introduced a nationwide approach to reducing acid pollution. The law is designed to reduce acid rain and improve public health by dramatically reducing emissions of sulfur dioxide (SO2) and oxides of nitrogen (NOx).

http://environmentallaw.uslegal.com/federal-laws/clean-air-act/

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...esel-promotion-now-looks-like-jon-stewart-gag

No group fell harder for the VW line than Generation X. Unlike their boomer parents who well remember the smoky, clattering diesel cars of the 1970s, Gen Xers saw VW technology as an elegant compromise between horsepower and green cred. About 58 percent of Americans shopping for diesel cars this year were Gen Xers, according to TrueCar, which tracks industry sales.

Needless to say, many Gen Xers now feel like rubes.

Nikki Medoro, 36, almost bought a Prius when she moved to San Jose, Calif. She wanted to limit the expense and environmental impact of her daily commute to and from San Francisco. A friend at the radio station where Medoro is a news anchor persuaded her to buy a 2012 Jetta diesel sports wagon instead. It was her first Volkswagen. That was 133,323 miles ago.

Feeling duped

“I’ve been their No. 1 fricking fan this whole time,” she said. “I told everyone about my car. I loved my car. Then this happened. I get madder every moment that passes by about this. Every mile of that I was just polluting. I feel so duped.”
...
After learning that her 2011 diesel Jetta station wagon had turned her into an unwitting uber-polluter, Grabriela Paz, a single mom from Oakland, Calif., knew one thing for sure: “I definitely won’t buy a VW again.”

The people most upset are members of the enviro crowd who used the TDI as a sign of green. That won't be an easy group to appease.

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...esel-promotion-now-looks-like-jon-stewart-gag

The people most upset are members of the enviro crowd who used the TDI as a sign of green. That won't be an easy group to appease.

Yeah. It sure does suck when reality clashes with your fantasy.

 

Yeah. It sure does suck when reality clashes with your fantasy.

and ex-lovers are the worst type of enemy when their pride is hurt.

 

Wait a minute there. The Clean air act and EPA want less ozone production but a the same time wants to fix the ozone layer that supposedly needs more ozone because of depletion issues?

Sounds pretty self imposed counter productive to me.

(As if I didn't already know)