I'm going to answer my own question. See the EPA's opinion on which laws were violated.

The EPA's interpretation seems pretty clear. It'll be a while till we get VW's interpretation. Or, they may just try to cut a deal to put this all behind them.

 

Had any of us been charged with writing the VW software, would any of us stood up to management "to save the company from disaster"? It would no doubt have cost us our jobs and they still would have found some patsy to do their bidding?

I would have said sure I can and then ratted them out in a few years for a nice reward. The more I look into this strictly from at stealth software problem the more I think the cheat was very clever and maybe goes deeper than VW as a knowing user. The easy way to mod the software is to change routines and data at the applications level but that's something you can buy on the street and would be detected quickly. To really do a neat hack that effectually the life blood of the company was riding on requires information hiding deep at the chip/OS level, quite possibly buried in some obscure driver code for a embedded hardware module 'cheat' module. I'm sure it's not called that on the ref ECM sheet but you can get PIC's with the Configurable Logic Cell (CLC) to generate logic states independent of program flow so I pretty sure the chips used in EDC17 combined with CPU special registers and/or implementation-specific Core Debug Registers could generate the same functionality buried as deep as a tick in a hound-dog and could be used to modify data from sensors before the unmodified motor control routines accessed them by a triggered stealth module configuration. This way all validation tests of the software from the programming code to firmware would pass any possible modification checks as it would respond exactly as it should be using real (physical engine data) or bogus (modified 'cleaned' engine) data. The only way to catch it as the root cause would be to duplicate the ECM with your own independent sensor package and to track deviations in behavior over time as I suspect they blended the hacked data with true data slowly to make it less noticeable for a short test run. The WV school hired to investigate seems to have done just that.
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015...blems-not-new-for-university/?intcmp=features

 

The EPA's interpretation seems pretty clear. It'll be a while till we get VW's interpretation. Or, they may just try to cut a deal to put this all behind them.

I'm sure a deal can be made and if VW is smart they might just make it a winner for them.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volks...ain-deepening-scandal-074408955--finance.html

BERLIN (AP) — Volkswagen CEO Martin Winterkorn stepped down Wednesday, days after admitting that the world's top-selling carmaker had rigged diesel emissions to pass U.S. tests during his tenure.


In a statement, Winterkorn took responsibility for the "irregularities" found in diesel engines but said he was "not aware of any wrongdoing on my part."

Toast.

 

As I see is like what most any of us have ever done when it came to passing a test. Do what is needed to pass the test when the test is being given and once the test is done that's the end of it.

How many tests in our live have we done things to pass them to get to some next level or to get something we need then after that the large percentage of the work and effort that was required is left long forgotten to never be used again until the next test comes along?

I know I have done it from grade school on up and all the way through my adult life without reservation or concern as to what part of what ever test I had to take will or will not be used from there on in my daily life..

For that matter how many members here are certified to some type of work and how many of you could honestly pass that same test if it was dropped in front of you today without warning? Or how many of you could pass your local driving test that was required for you to get your drivers licence?

How about that math, chemistry, physics, sociology, english, history, fitness or what ever test you had to pass to get out of high school or finish college? How many of you could take those tests and pass today?

Also when a new rule or law comes out how many of us blindly obey and how many of us check it out in detail to try and find any loophole we can use to our advantage? I know that whenever I see a new rule or law that I do not agree with or find unnecessarily restrictive I put my efforts into learning it in detail enough to find its loopholes and workarounds.

 

As I see is like what most any of us have ever done when it came to passing a test.

Yup. I had to drink lots of beer the night before.

 

I live about 50 miles from VW in Chattanooga, I've placed 2 of my graduate students there, working in maintenance. They both are concerned the situation is going to get much worse before it gets better. No mention yet as to how they plan on fixing this.

 

Also when a new rule or law comes out how many of us blindly obey and how many of us check it out in detail to try and find any loophole we can use to our advantage? I know that whenever I see a new rule or law that I do not agree with or find unnecessarily restrictive I put my efforts into learning it in detail enough to find its loopholes and workarounds.

It's depends, in the OEM auto biz that's a dangerous thing to do. For a while (10 long years) I was the ISO/TS 'engineer' and in my job of maintaining calibrations systems and records I was personally audited every year by dnvgl. Failure to know every rule or unintentional mistakes during an audit was a deficiency that could be corrected, intentional 'willful' bending of rules was grounds for failure and usually brought on the type of attention from the upper executives you don't want to have. If the ability of your company to exist and sell products on the world market depends on honesty and the best possible effort to follow the rules (even if they seem silly) that's what you do as a professional or suffer the consequences. I have zero tolerance for them cheating as it's a royal pain in the posterior to be in total compliance and I loved being Dr. NO when the bean counters asked it we could reduce spending by streamlining procedures or using cheaper sources. If the spec was for a 5% measurement then I wanted at 0.5% measurement instrument with full data and uncertainty so we could prove in an audit that even if the measurement device drifted out of it's spec slightly between calibrations the actual production spec for product was OK during that time. When the guy pulled records at random from the file it was stuffed with years of quality records, this made things easier for both of us.
The way to a quality product is to have quality procedures that are followed as closely as possible so when screw-ups happen (and they do) the damage is limited.

If they cheated on this, what else are they cheating on?

 

....Toast......

Yup, Toast. Do they have Wal-Marts in Germany? I sure he is being fitted with a nice blue vest with a plastic name tag if they do.

 

Yup, Toast. Do they have Wal-Marts in Germany? I sure he is being fitted with a nice blue vest with a plastic name tag if they do.

This little line from the article is a nightmare.

The EPA accused VW of installing the so-called "defeat device" in 482,000 cars sold in the U.S. VW later acknowledged that similar software exists in 11 million diesel cars worldwide and was setting aside 6.5 billion euros to cover the costs of the scandal.

http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-admits-it-cheated-with-11-million-engines-s-1732283322

 

For a while (10 long years) I was the ISO/TS 'engineer' and in my job of maintaining calibrations systems and records I was personally audited every year by dnvgl. Failure to know every rule or unintentional mistakes during a audit was a deficiency that could be corrected, intentional bending of rules was grounds for failure and usually brought on the type of attention from the upper executives you don't want to have. If the ability of your company to exist and sell products on the world market depends on honesty and the best possible effort to follow the rules (even if they seem silly) that's what you do as a professional or suffer the consequences.

In your position taking that test regularly was part of your job.

For the majority of us taking tests to become certified or allowed to do certain types of work or jobs are a once or few and far between thing which at our level finding ways to pass the test by any means necessary is par for the course and common practice especially so now that it seems that the government or controlling agencies are putting out new certification testing and requirements left and right that by far have way too little practical or relevant value to the actual types of work being done.

Find out what I need to pass the test then do it and get my little stamp of approval and go back to work until the next mind numbingly irrelevant bureaucratic requirement pops up and do the same for that.

To be honest for me personally I have probably taken a few hundred tests and certification classes to get certified or what ever term they used to allow me to do whatever it was they felt was so important to some bureaucratic requirement at the time. At my last job just to get allowed onto oil well pads I had at least 40 different proof of certification/completion of whatever cards and stickers I had to carry with me to show I was legally allowed/supposedly capable of doing my job so I could be allowed on certain sites of which no one ever checked them once I was given them.

They all said I passed some test but be damned if I could have answered what test related to what card let alone what was a correct answers to whatever questions they asked me from the related test I took.

 

In your position taking that test regularly was part of your job.

They all said I passed some test but be damned if I could have answered what test related to what card let alone what was a correct answers to whatever questions they asked me from the related test I took.

In the beginning I volunteered for the job (I know, never do that) but it was in my own best self interest in the long run as I did the job to the letter (attention to detail was something I learned in the military), looked forward to the audits unlike most people, the exec's knew they could trust me to do the right thing and didn't bother me about spending money for my own pet work related projects in the future.

I know what you mean, we have tons of tests or reviews on earthquake, arc flash and a ton of other CYA read and sign papers. Most are exactly like you say but not all.

 

Find out what I need to pass the test then do it and get my little stamp of approval and go back to work until the next mind numbingly irrelevant bureaucratic requirement pops up and do the same for that.

Unfortunately for you, the regulators and your employer can hold you accountable for your failures. That certification got you in the door. It's up to you to ensure currency.

I can tell you when the regulators come around, and if your class of license conveys the authority of a different license, you need to know which CFR conveys that authority.

 

Surprisingly I am very detail oriented in my work when it comes to that stupid stuff and so far I have never had any of my actions of negligence or worse jeopardize my job.

What I have had jeopardize and end my job more than once was negligence and attempted covers up being done by those above me who assumed that I wasn't paying attention to what they did or did not do and that I could take the blame with no way of proving I had nothing to do with anything that they were doing wrong and trying to cover up.

Just because I don't care for the tests and tend to put everything about them that I found to be pointless and irrelevant out of my head that does not mean I do not pay close attention to what may get me in or keep me out of trouble later. That and knowing the rules in detail doeswonders for being able to play in the grey areas when it come time to get something done that's on the don't ask don't tell list.

 

It's clearly unethical to game the emissions test, but is it strictly illegal?

No.

I mean, if VW was clever enough to find a loophole, isn't it the fault of the law writer for leaving such a big loophole?

Yes, if the law was written to cover nothing but the emission test. But the actual regulation was far more detailed than just "passing the emission test and we don't care about anything else".

 

Yes, if the law was written to cover nothing but the emission test. But the actual regulation was far more detailed than just "passing the emission test and we don't care about anything else".

Break out 40 CFR and 42 USC.

The USC still lists diesels as exempt.

If there are no tests ... how does one ensure compliance? Are we being treated to the next $5000 increase in vehicle cost to disable them if they exceed the provisions of the CAA and 40 CFR?

 

Break out 40 CFR and 42 USC.

What about them? Even if VW isn't in violation of that piece of the regulation, it doesn't mean, by itself, that VW isn't in violation of other pieces of the regulation.

The purpose of the exercise, on the part of the government, is to show that VW violated some / any part of the regulation. Whether VW is NOT in violation of other parts of the regulation has no bearing in this discussion.

 

"Using a defeat device in cars to evade clean air standards is illegal and a threat to public health," said Cynthia Giles, assistant administrator for the Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance. In other words, there is a law that says it is illegal to cheat. So, it does not look like there is a loophole that you could drive a truck through, let alone a VW Jetts . VW has admitted its guilt which is good because there is a half a million pieces of evidence driving around.

The real fun is to see how deep the government can crawl into VWs business to determine who is guilty. I bet an agreement to pay a really big fine will keep that from happening.

 

"Using a defeat device in cars to evade clean air standards is illegal and a threat to public health," said Cynthia Giles, assistant administrator for the Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance. In other words, there is a law that says it is illegal to cheat. So, it does not look like there is a loophole that you could drive a truck through, let alone a VW Jetts . VW has admitted its guilt which is good because there is a half a million pieces of evidence driving around.

The real fun is to see how deep the government can crawl into VWs business to determine who is guilty. I bet an agreement to pay a really big fine will keep that from happening.

VW will find out who did it in the usual way. The last janitor who engineered a safety related problem for the company confessed quickly.

 

What about them? Even if VW isn't in violation of that piece of the regulation, it doesn't mean, by itself, that VW isn't in violation of other pieces of the regulation.

Those are the two references in the letter the EPA sent VW. You can read the original source or take it for granted the government is infallible.