VW - not so "Clean Diesel"

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,308
Last edited:

Thread Starter

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,009
That guy is toast. His golden parachute has turned into something else.

fahrvergnügen

I am thinking that the highest levels of management will be pointing at mid-level managers and their engineering staff who used programming as a stop-gap measure to meet their goals on engine performance, emissions and costs - collected their bonuses though the deception while costing the company billions in fines, customer lawsuits and market share loss. The CEO will declare that his hands were clean.

Sometimes it works out for CEOs, sometimes it does not. Like this CEO - facing life in prison for putting profit over just about everything.
http://fortune.com/2015/09/21/life-sentence-salmonella-outbreak/
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
I for one am curious, cant find any definitive info so far but still looking, as to what the actual before and after numbers are for their vehicles relating to their rated HP and fuel efficiency.

At the moment it appears that the before fuel economy was around 5.2 liters per 100 km and the after is around 7 .1 liters per 100 km which in my book is a pretty serious hit on fuel efficiency. Even more so if the actual engine power and vehicle drivability was also similarly affected.
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
At the moment it appears that the before fuel economy was around 5.2 liters per 100 km and the after is around 7 .1 liters per 100 km
Another big oil conspiracy no doubt.

[/sarcasm]

On the bright side, the taxes collected by the government has increased, so, LET'S FIX THIS PROBLEM so the liters per 100 km another 20 percent. The tax revenue helps support the EPA.
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
Actually the big oil companies would prefer that we got 20% better fuel milage. With that they could raise their prices 20% and make the same profits while doing 20% less work.

As you said it's largely the government who does not want us getting better mileage because it would cut into their fuel tax and oil/fuel industry tax revenues and big time.:mad:
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
5,286
From the L.A. Times:

The federal government paid out as much as $51 million in green car subsidies for Volkswagen diesel vehicles based on falsified pollution test results, according to a Times analysis of the federal incentives...
Now it all makes sense. When the Feds have infinite taxpayer dollars to hand out to their cronies, the cronies have infinite incentive to cheat.

Solution: get rid of cronyism, get rid of cheaters.
 

Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
23,429
Buy a large bag of popcorn, this show is going to take a while.

What ever happened to trust, but verify? I suspect it will make a comeback.
 

Thread Starter

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,009
Buy a large bag of popcorn, this show is going to take a while.

What ever happened to trust, but verify? I suspect it will make a comeback.
One party wants to cut the size of government so the number of regulators drops each year so the number of inspections drops. Note the rise of contaminated food and pharmaceutical recalls. Most food processors see usda inspectors about one-tenth as often as they did in the past. Most inspectors only have time for a documentation check and no tour of the production area.

IRS is getting scaled back too - that is apparent saving the government money by not doing so many pesky audits.

Trust but verify? Who has money to verify?
 

BR-549

Joined Sep 22, 2013
4,928
No one was hurt, right?

What happened in the airbag story?

What just happened to the unconnected peanut butter man?
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
What ever happened to trust, but verify? I suspect it will make a comeback.
The emissions tests were an attempt to verify. But on the face of it, even an emissions test is at best only a proxy for what happens out on the road. Testing for a proxy of what you care about (emissions in a standardized garage environment), instead of that thing itself (real-world emissions out on the road), is always vulnerable to distortions. You could say the same thing about standardized school testing, since it causes teaching-to-the-test. VW has shown that outright fraud is one more reason to avoid proxy testing.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
5,286
The emissions tests were an attempt to verify. But on the face of it, even an emissions test is at best only a proxy for what happens out on the road. Testing for a proxy of what you care about (emissions in a standardized garage environment), instead of that thing itself (real-world emissions out on the road), is always vulnerable to distortions. You could say the same thing about standardized school testing, since it causes teaching-to-the-test. VW has shown that outright fraud is one more reason to avoid proxy testing.
Real-world testing is frought with even more variability! Just think of all the different possible environmental conditions, gas mixtures/impurities, altitude, temperature, humidity, etc...
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
5,286
Yes, you could determine that the vehicle was emitting many times the standard, but you could not get deterministic data at the margins.
 
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