It's my F'ing car, my F'ing computer, phone and my devices.

That doesn't make you the F'ing owner of the IPs inside of your F'ing car, your F'ing computer, your F'ing phone and any other F'ing devices you may have. Otherwise, you would be too F'ing poor to F'ing buy any of those F'ing car, F'ing computer, F'ing phone and F'ing etc.

Hope it makes it clear now,

 

That doesn't make you the F'ing owner of the IPs inside of your F'ing car, your F'ing computer, your F'ing phone and any other F'ing devices you may have. Otherwise, you would be too F'ing poor to F'ing buy any of those F'ing car, F'ing computer, F'ing phone and F'ing etc.

Hope it makes it clear now,

Yes it does for my own personal use and nothing stops me from doing a clean house reverse-engineer of the software in those products for my own use.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201

(f)Reverse Engineering.—

(1)
Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a)(1)(A), a person who has lawfully obtained the right to use a copy of a computer program may circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a particular portion of that program for the sole purpose of identifying and analyzing those elements of the program that are necessary to achieve interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and that have not previously been readily available to the person engaging in the circumvention, to the extent any such acts of identification and analysis do not constitute infringement under this title.
(2)
Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections (a)(2) and (b), a person may develop and employ technological means to circumvent a technological measure, or to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure, in order to enable the identification and analysis under paragraph (1), or for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, if such means are necessary to achieve such interoperability, to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title.
(3)
The information acquired through the acts permitted under paragraph (1), and the means permitted under paragraph (2), may be made available to others if the person referred to in paragraph (1) or (2), as the case may be, provides such information or means solely for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title or violate applicable law other than this section.
(4)
For purposes of this subsection, the term “interoperability” means the ability of computer programs to exchange information, and of such programs mutually to use the information which has been exchanged.

I would also say software IP and patents are a sin on the soul of invention.

 

The rules and standards might be goofy but VW lied and cheated knowing the rules and standards that others must follow to sell products here.

They could play a bit of hard ball and outrightly pull all of their products from the US including service components which would leave a huge customer force really really PO'ed at the EPA and government in general being I have suspicions that very few people honestly could care less about the emission numbers Vs the vehicles fuel milage and quality of build.

I also find it ironic that the EPA is opposing rules to open up car electronics to legally reverse-engineering the codes for the public.

I'm not so sure that is really a concern being that the aftermarket industry that designs and produces all the devices that trick factory control systems into running at more fuel efficient and powerful settings and or disabling emissions components is a multibillion dollar industry as is that has it's hands in every area of every industry that uses an internal combustion engine that is under emissions regulations.

The automotive industry is not the only one with hackers retuning (chipping) engines to get more power and or better fuel economy by defeating emissions controls and programing.

I know construction equipment owners who have their earth movers chipped to shut down emissions components in order to reduce service costs plus increase fuel efficiency. Same with farmers who have their tractors combines and other field equipment chipped for the same reasons and same with over the road truck owners that have their big rigs chipped to do the same as well.
Heck my grandparents used to RV a lot and it was common stories from them to hear about other having their campers and RV's chipped to improve their fuel milage and power as well.

To be honest I have even heard of school systems having buses rechipped now to improve their fuel economy and shut down their unwanted emissions crap as well.

Personally I say go VW! Sure you cheated the rules but then again most every american who has to pay the fuel bills has already thought about it or is already doing it anyway.

As for the aftermarket companies many are already advertizing that their newest products to be capable of being setup to be invisible to detection by factory control systems that might register that they have been tampered with. I know of several people who have went so far as to buy custom programed main ECM units for their vehicles so that when they need warranty work or need to do an emissions test they can just pop the illegal ECM out and plug the factory one back in.

 

As for the aftermarket companies many are already advertizing that their newest products to be capable of being setup to be invisible to detection by factory control systems that might register that they have been tampered with. I know of several people who have went so far as to buy custom programed main ECM units for their vehicles so that when they need warranty work or need to do an emissions test they can just pop the illegal ECM out and plug the factory one back in.

The cat's out of the bag and banning information about it or the product won't work and has never worked in the past when there is a demand for the product and money is being made. This looks like the speakeasy days of prohibition and alcohol. The ban is creating a criminal culture that operates in the shadows instead of being out in the open where we can tax it and share the profit.

 

it does for my own personal use

I guess by that logic apartment renters really own their apartments, those DVD owners really own the rights to the movies on their DVD, etc.

I guess I own the whole universe too,

 

I guess by that logic apartment renters really own their apartments, those DVD owners really own the rights to the movies on their DVD, etc.

I guess I own the whole universe too,

Your statements are illogical. If I lease a car or apartment I am bound by that lease agreement and do not own that property. I own both my house and car. If tomorrow I decide to take both apart to the last nail or bolt (problems with the wife are ignored here ) I can do it. The owner of a DVD does own the access rights to view that movie but does not have the right to make unlimited copies to all his friends and family to access that content. That person can give his DVD to anyone else for a personal viewing. I can go the library and checkout a DVD for viewing so while our right of total ownership of the performance is limited (as it should be as a 'work of art') 'buying' the DVD does give us rights to it just like buying a ticket to a concert does.

Are the current laws on personal use Copyright being used to undermine fair use, international law, and the longstanding fundamentals of private ownership? Yes. So while ripping is almost certainly unlawful under current US law we are back to the speakeasy world of everyone doing it under the table like we see with car electronic control systems.

 

If I lease a car or apartment I am bound by that lease agreement ...

The lease agreements certainly allows your personal use of that car / apartment, which by your definition means that you own the car and apartment, which you dispute above.

Sounds like you are the one insisting that your definition of ownership is illogical,

 

Yes it does for my own personal use and nothing stops me from doing a clean house reverse-engineer of the software in those products for my own use.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201
I would also say software IP and patents are a sin on the soul of invention.

I don't think you have to justify your argument. The other side makes no sense.

 

I guess by that logic apartment renters really own their apartments, those DVD owners really own the rights to the movies on their DVD, etc.

Are you trolling us or are you just that naive about how reality and real life works because so far the vast majority of your posts you have made on this forum come across strongly as you either are flat out trolling us or you are the most wide ranging to outrightly dangerously ill informed person I have ever seen here.

This example is a perfect point of how very difficult it is to believe that you are not trolling us just for arguments sake being I can not believe that any adult would not understand the differences between rental of another persons property and outright ownership of their own property and what legal allowances go with each.

Say my property is worth $500,000 and I rent it to you for $1 a month. Do you honestly believe that for a $1 a month you have unrestricted rights to do what you want ot the property I bought and paid for just because I agreed to let you live on it for $1 a month?

 

Are you trolling us or are you just that naive about how reality and real life works

Either way, is it worth responding to?

I just hit @#12 's favorite button

 

Well not really but you know I can't help calling things like I see them.

 

On the topic of this thread here's a little experiment I did today with a old genset I was fixing up that basically confirms that VW's shutting down the emissions system could be largely responsible for their better fuel economy.
====
I did some work on a 5000 watt generator today where I replaced it's 10 HP B&S vanguard engine with a Honda 9 HP engine and did a bit of experimenting with it's A/F ratios/factory emissions compliance settings.

After getting the new engine in place and everything back into the genset frame I did a load bank test of sorts.

Initially it maxed out the 9 HP Honda powering a 4500 watt load that consisted of three 1500 watt milkhouse heaters. With the three heaters on the governor was wide open and the engine was struggling pretty hard to maintain 225 volts at 56 HZ (~3995 watts calculated) plus making a pretty noticeable bogging sound from the intake as well. As for actual fuel consumption rate when I shut the fuel off it ran for maybe 8 - 10 seconds on what fuel was in the carburetor bowl before stalling out.

Obviously the bogging was a indication of the A/F ratio being too lean, likely factory set for near stoichiometric for cleanest burn, so I pulled the jet and drilled it a few thousands larger and gave it a retest.

Interesting results. Same load but on this run the throttle was just short of wide open and the generator was maintaining 231 volts at 58 Hz (~4169 watts calculated) with far less struggle plus when I shut the fuel off I got around 11 - 12 seconds of run time on what fuel was in the carburetor despite the slightly higher load.

From that this experiment of rejetting for a richer A/F ratio it freed up some power while reducing fuel consumption at the same time. Granted the engine probably would not pass its original emission compliance test but hey now it's using less fuel while having improved both power and efficiency. Oh well.


For me this just reconfirms what I have been saying for years about my reasonings and findings from disabling emissions components and retuning engines on my vehicles.
Optimum fuel burn does not equate to being the most efficient fuel energy conversion to mechanical energy transfer basically meaning a clean burning engine is not necessarily the most fuel efficient engine.

Given the ease of this experiment I am sort of pondering on redoing this experiment with digital meters hooked up to read the actual load amps volts and watts plus the engine's actual head and exhaust temps simultaneously in real time and making a Youtube video out of it to show that emissions compliance costs you more in fuel while robbing you of your engine's ability to work most efficiently at turning your fuel energy into mechanical energy.

 

I owned one Volks-Piggen in my life... Quote the Raven...

It was from when VW was supposedly better... hah !! the 1970 "Squareback" wagon, with that marvelous 4 cyl " pancake " engine / 4 spd and a well-earned aka of
" refrigerator on wheels " ...

 

I owned one Volks-Piggen in my life... Quote the Raven...

They seem to spend a lot of time in the repair shop - based on observation of the people at work who need to be dropped off or picked up from the local repair shop before/after work.

 

I did some work on a 5000 watt generator today where I replaced it's 10 HP B&S vanguard engine with a Honda 9 HP engine and did a bit of experimenting with it's A/F ratios/factory emissions compliance settings.

Thanks for doing the experiment. It should be helpful for people who aren't old enough to remember the MPG face-plant that happened when smog controls were first introduced.

 

Well it wasn't really unknown for me. I 've been doing this sort of stuff for years.

This one just happened to be a easy to work with way to document direct before and after results for power and fuel consumption on the same machine using identical conditions only minutes apart.

To be honest this is the sort of experiment most anyone with basic mechanical skills can do as well with a portable genset. Especially if they have one that has to have the choke part way on to get it to run smooth enough to do anything useful.

The only critical non common tool needed is a set of micro/needle drill bits to open up the main jet which as with mine I bought a full set of carbide ones on eBay for about $10.

As for the actual jet drilling I just found what micro bit fit the original jet bore and went with the next one larger and drilled it out by hand just by spinning the micro drill bit with my fingers.

 

spinning the micro drill bit with my fingers.

I use a, "pin vise". Much easier on the piggies.

 

Here is one of the VWs I own. It is stroked out to 2276 cc, has 9:1 compression, and dual Weber IDF44 carbs jetted for "hold on tight". It is not smog-able and Diane Feinstein cringes every time I cross into California.

 

Here is one of the VWs I own. It is stroked out to 2276 cc, has 9:1 compression, and dual Weber IDF44 carbs jetted for "hold on tight". It is not smog-able and Diane Feinstein cringes every time I cross into California.

Not to change the topic but, what the heck, it is both my thread an off topic. Do you have trouble with under-steer on your sand buggy? It looks both light in front and lacks any thread on the narrow front tires.

And, what happened to the big black spot over your right eye?

 

............... Do you have trouble with under-steer on your sand buggy? It looks both light in front and lacks any thread on the narrow front tires. ............And, what happened to the big black spot over your right eye?

Very observant. Yes, the front gets very light especially under power, and that is why I have cutting breaks. (I can break the rear wheels independently for steering purposes.) The lack of tread prevents the tires from picking up rocks and slinging them at you.

The black dot over my right eye, in my avatar, is a piece of latex that resembles a bolt (sticking out of my head.) I was part of a Halloween costume. (I don't wear it all the time.)