Hi everyone, I'm a psychologist form Brazil, so sorry for the bad English and stupidity in electronics!

So, in acupuncture, they say, skin impedance in certain spots play a major role in the mental health...

Personally I dont believe much in it, but many patients of mine are talking about it. Particularly, they are talking about two devices:

One is called "ryodoraku", that gives a fancy graph about the impedance in many places of the body... It costs about 350 dollars (the same as 1 month of work, in low qualified works)...

Other one is called "acuspoint ", that gives the impedance in only a point at time, like a digital multimeter, and costs about 230 dollars...

I guess this devices are just glorified multimeters... and one can find a multimeter for about 7 dollars here...

So, my question is: what is the device used to measure impedance (galvanometer I guess), is it available in an ordinary multimeter (I've readed that, the ohm scale in the multimeter measures resistance, not impedance), how sensitive it must be to measure skin impedance?

I've tried walking in shops asking for galvanometer to measure skin impedance and got no luck finding one! Hehehehe!

Sorry for the long post! Thanks!

 

Resistance and impedance are the same thing if you are measuring with DC. Do the fancy meters use DC or AC for the measurements?

 

Resistance and impedance are the same thing if you are measuring with DC. Do the fancy meters use DC or AC for the measurements?

Thanks a lot! Really! In the manual says:

"... using the traditional technique of continuous corrent (200µA max in closed circuit)".

 

In my times at sea when calling Santos, I used to visit Rua Santa Ifigenia in Sao Paulo to buy things, even books at Litec (um monte realmente!) but I doubt you could ask for something like you say, there.

Any chance you could open one to see what is inside?

 

In my times at sea when calling Santos, I used to visit Rua Santa Ifigenia in Sao Paulo to buy things, even books at Litec (um monte realmente!) but I doubt you could ask for something like you say, there.

Any chance you could open one to see what is inside?

Hello! My workplace is about 30 mins away from Santa Ifigenia, so I've been there sometimes! A wonderful place, if you ask me! I have one dear friend that has a cell repair shop near Santa Ifigenia! =)

I'm afraid I can't open one... I've just saw one like 5 years ago... =(

 

Galvanometer is the original name for an ammeter. It measured the difference in galvanic potential between two points. It started as a coil of wire wrapped around a compass. No surprise that no one recognizes a name from the 1800's.

200 uA "continuous" constant current sounds like an ohmmeter to me, although I'm sure the scale or readout indicates some other "value". "closed circuit" might mean it is a constant current output rather than a voltage source with a series resistance. Is the readout a digital display, or an analog meter?

ak

 

Hello, and welcome to aac.

Personally I dont believe much in it

Neither do I. Measuring skin impedance will only tell you how conductive it is. And that's something that depends on it's humidity/dryness and salinity... which is completely unrelated to mental health, in my opinion.

I guess this devices are just glorified multimeters...

Yes, that's what they are. In fact, they perform a single function, and not many like ordinary multimeters. They're ohmmeters, to be more precise.

Albert raised an important distinction between ac and dc impedances... but truth being told, I doubt it's actually relevant to the devices you've mentioned. If you're unable to open one, would it be possible for you to at least post a picture of one of those devices?

 

Thanks a lot everyone!

. Is the readout a digital display, or an analog meter?

The acuspointer is digital, the ryodoraku is plotted in a graph, in a computer, via USB.

If you're unable to open one, would it be possible for you to at least post a picture of one of those devices?

Sure! Here's the acuspoint:

And here is Ryodoraku

Please, does a regular multimeter measures the skin impedance? Or does the multimeter should have a special sensibility? Or is there a specific instrument for it (if I want to play around to see if really my skin impedance would chance if I was sad or happy... what instrument should I buy?)

Thanks once again! =)

 

Actually, them ARE just glorified multimeter. BUT, the real science lays bit deeper.
Firstly, the simple resistance measurement of skin can give You an idea of WHERE to stick the electrodes for accupuncture.

Secondly, very rapid the electrode polarization takes the place, thus the metal name have meaning for electrodes, the best one is platinum but may forget it, and next best are gold. However gold-plated are importantly weaker, mostly are used them. But it is not enough wit the right metal. Next is algorithm of electricity let few milisec it flows from one electrode to next, and then the same time backward. Most of biosystems use frequencies just around 10-100 Hz.

Third, if You modulate those low frequency with a hardly higher, between kHz to GHz, You get readable the imaginary part of impedance and real part, thus the resistive component may be calculated out. That is far better product, as the frequency gives a message about which depth we speak, from intra-membrane measurements or just outside the cells fluids like it happens at mastitometer devices for milk cows (Draminsky, MA-1, etc etc) - as known at mastitis explodes the cell membranes thus the K and Ca rich intracellular fluids get mixed with extracellular extracellular fluids rich by NaCl, and this is sensed by mastitometer.

Fourth, if to go more deeper layers of unknown, I advice to read the software RISE frequency tables what allows (by their authors mind) to measure and even to get healed practically all known illnesses, from cancer to just depression, from alcoholism to heart failure.... This method this year was nominated be included into anti-science dictionary, however I KNOW that effect of quazi-resonances exists (even some my publications are based on that effect quantification). I may wonder if those frequency tables has not `sucked-off the finger`, but I am sure there indeed exists a multiple local resonances and their well systematized research aren`t done by none nowhere. And they are human to human different.

One of relatively cheap solutions is Chinese pH tester for few USD at ebay, I bought it (EZ-1) few weeks ago and am quite happy (for to measure the destillated water quality). If I try it on my fingers skin, I get readable result, thus I will to hope that it uses a AC antipolarization system like I show above.

One more problem is the skin wetness impact, what may create the 1000-fold impedance difference, thus readings on finger and readings on elbow may be different in without of ANY medical reason. The next factor is acohol, even one tea-spoon of strong alcohol may give a tenfold or more impact on skin resistance, and each person has another dynamics of setting it back, and localization mapping.

However, MOSTLY the system RIFE is just the bucks milking imitation to fool the clientele, for some 25% I believe it is possible in future to design it`s correct medical use, probably. For example, one my friend, the pensioned Dr.Phys is stating he had find the frequencies very well showing the cacncer hiding in body, what are far far different those mentioned at RIFE (as it is officially public licence freeware having no restrictions for spreading, inspite of whaaarn I hot here from moderators in similar situation, I risk to link it here www.dropbox.com/s/oxq0pjailnap6eq/rife.zip?dl=0). Inside You shall find a software generating the RIFE signals as well the frequency tables with linked probable diagnosis.

 

RE:""Measuring skin impedance will only tell you how conductive it is""
As yes, as nope. Because it DYNAMICS (for example, human reaction on fear, pain, unplesant memories MAY tell the good doctor something what this patient dont knows or not willing to admit. Thus, the oscillographic functionality is more than very important here, for psychologists, I assume.
Thus, as the cheap solution I may offer the USB oscilloscopic software using the sound-card plugs, if one is already generating the signal from RIFE, then microphone entrance may be used for writing the current or voltage from the object under research. Yet it has 44 kHz upper limit, it covers most of interesting frequencies. The freeware is Zeitnitz oscilloscope (Germany, www.zeitnitz.eu/scope_en) and only that demands is to put the `bird` saying that you will not use the software for commercialization like to re-sell it Your clients for money. Thus it is for free, and, by the way, it contains the sweep frequency function and frequency analyser function, what MAY be (or not) useful for some (probably) diagnostics.

 

Please, does a regular multimeter measures the skin impedance?

Yes, any basic multimeter can measure skin resistance. The problem is consistent contact.

1. Measure the resistance from one hand to the other by pinching the tips of the probes with your fingers. Notice that the reading changes a lot when you pinch harder.
2. Lick your fingers so they are damp with saliva and try again. Notice the changes in readings.
3. Use clip leads to attach the probes to small metal objects. Grip the objects and notice the changes in the readings.

There are all kinds of theories about what material should be used for the handholds. Some like pieces of 1" copper pipe wrapped with a paper towel soaked with salt water. Others think this forces copper ions to leech into the skin. Some like stainless steel because it wont corrode; other don't like it because of its chromium content. The same for-and-against arguments apply to most metals.

Without getting anywhere near the question of whether or not the readings mean anything, just getting them reliably is a significant problem.

ak

 

By the way, those mentioned my mate who is pensioned, at last his carrier`s Soviet occupation years has success to build the PC based system what psychologically tested the school pupils on ADD/ADHS syndrome (only this term wasn`t invented yet). The basis was resistance measurements and it oscillograms on the screen v.s. different stresses. The work was done under education ministry label, but was sharply closed as it shown a clearly shocking figures on near that 50% of pupils. Only now, working at school one day every week I have a moral rights to undersign with my blood, he was absolutely right. Even MORE than 50% have this problem, and have it sooner heavy stage to be true. And their parents mostly has too, to be honest (as joked Murphy the Great, that sum of all intelligence over the Planet is stable constant, but number of people here are rising and rising and rising). If You have any interest, I may ask do he have saved some his russian-language publications on this topic.

 

RE:""Yes, any basic multimeter can measure skin resistance. The problem is consistent contact.""
These readings mentioned are too unstable, and heavily depends on contact PRESSURE, skin WETNESS, and TIME under current (electrode polarization). Those factors MUST be corrected.

 

RE:""They're ohmmeters, to be more precise.""
You are bit too optimistic. The bad medical impedance tester stays 3,5 digits, in average 4 digits, and only in very good devices the 5 digits. Whilst the ordinary 50$ multimeter has at least 4 digits and only 1$ China-made has 3, yet more accurate high-end devices has more than 7...9 (what is absolute overkilling, mostly, as the thermal drift is larger).

 

RE:""I used to visit (...) to buy things, even books at Litec (um monte realmente!)""
Ouch, You are a richman if may allow to buy so much expensive things as books. In my speciality the book prices are between 70-400 $ per piece or even more. Therefore from the time of 1994, when I was connected into network (uhh, then in my state was 20 websites and in World about 800) I am living mostly on e-books `needle` what I have collectioned several tens of thousands - sometimes I wonder if 100 lives be enough to read them through. So I wish You too, just press the wonder phrase `torrent e-book psychology+skin electric properties` or something like that and You`ll get it more than Your HDD may contain.

 

RE:""So, in acupuncture, they say, skin impedance in certain spots play a major role in the mental health""
Then You are back to the RIFE standpoint: the obtaining a quazi-resonance frequencies for the patient gives a message about his illnesses, and may be helpful to select what illnesses he has. And setting the same frequency amplified back, he may be healed. Because current makes a muscle vibrations (it is not spoken where, in patient or in bacillus/parasites etc) so they come into own mechanical resonance frequency until the stage when they mechanically explode. Very nice hypothesis, just brilliant, but not based on ANY medical or physics publication. And what is worst, if one tries to publish anything in that field, automatically he is labelled as anti-science, thus the publications may not be created, so at least the particular truth has the conspiracy theories adepts blaming the big pharmacy companies in situation on RIFE invented at late eighties!!!! and still stays on the same semi-charlatan level.
At another hand, the same wonderful was theory of wonder-doctor Tullio Simoncini (MD) in his famous book "Cancer is a Fungus" aka soda therapy. How far I heard, he had heavy Temida jobs around that healing technique however seems exist a many who was cured by this.
Indeed sometimes is very difficult to make a sharp difference between the `anti-science` and `science in very newborn stage`. As those infamous `Great Environmental Energy Tecnology / GEET` what author after a ten years sweet life was imprisoned at US for very long, the sentence said: "scientific falsification".

 

BUT, the real science lays bit deeper

Wow! Thanks a lot for the wonderful explanation! I didn't had the idea of how deep it went! Thanks a lot!

Inside You shall find a software generating the RIFE signals as well the frequency tables with linked probable diagnosis.

I will do that as soon as I get home! Thanks again!

The freeware is Zeitnitz oscilloscop

I can't thank you enough for that info! I will like carefully in that!

Yes, any basic multimeter can measure skin resistance. The problem is consistent contact.

That's a great info! I guess my father has a multimeter! It's time for me to pay him a visit! Hahahahaha! I know it's not very precise, at least I will have some fun, I guess!

If You have any interest, I may ask do he have saved some his russian-language publications on this topic.

Thanks a lot! But the only words I know in Russian is "raz, dwai, tree", from a song from a band called Rammstein, named Moscow! =) ah, and I also know the word "vodka"! =)

Then You are back to the RIFE standpoint: the obtaining a quazi-resonance frequencies for the patient gives a message about his illnesses, and may be helpful to select what illnesses he has

Thanks again for all the info Janis! I will think about all you just said to me! It's a lot of interesting info! It will take a while for me to process all of it! =)

 

A Chiropractor opened a new office and offered a free test. He measured the "impedance" of many spots on my skin and said some were bad and needed manipulation (that I must pay for). I noticed that the bad spots had a low impedance and at those spots he pressed the probes harder. He and his test are PHONEY!

 

A Chiropractor opened a new office and offered a free test. He measured the "impedance" of many spots on my skin and said some were bad and needed manipulation (that I must pay for). I noticed that the bad spots had a low impedance and at those spots he pressed the probes harder. He and his test are PHONEY!

Ya don't say

 

Hi again! Please, I'm trying to measure my skin impedance with a multimeter... But it's not working... what am I doing wrong?

Thanks!