Treadmill motor controller question

Thread Starter

Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
I have this motor controller and the motor as well.
In pictures.

I see the DC output to the motor T1/T2
I see the AC input T3/T4
And I see VR1. I assume this to be a potentiometer. If this control the speed of the motor or if it is some preset thing.
And I see the T5, the 20 pin ribbon connector. I assume that it is some of those pins that perhaps is related to PWM that gets the motor going. How to identify those 20 pins, 10 on each row. If any of the pins relates to PWM, which ones? . If all I have to do is get a PWM, a picture included.

My question is becoming obvoius. How can I get the motor going given what you see.
 

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LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
2,628
"" How can I get the motor going given what you see. ""

That depends,
are You trying to fix a Treadmill, or use the Motor for other purposes ?
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MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
26,270
. If all I have to do is get a PWM, a picture included.
I am not familiar with that particular controller, but It appears to be a PWM output type of controller, you may need a PWM input similar to the popular MC2100 requires.
But in the case of the latter, the control freq is critical at 20Hz, that controller you show is aimed at this.
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
2,628
That's a DC-Motor,
you'd be better-off with a regular-ole AC-Induction-Motor,
even one that's ~50 years old.

You certainly can use a DC-Motor for those functions,
but it will be expensive, and maybe too complex for your liking.

To do it the proper way, You will need a very large Choke,
( a Microwave-Oven-Transformer might do the job ),
and about 10-large Capacitors,
feeding a very high power DC PWM Voltage-Regulator,
to supply the Motor.
But at least You automatically get the bonus of adjustable Speed-Control,

( The Circuitry that the Treadmill came with is not my idea of the proper way to do it,
it obviously died a miserable death because of the manufacturer cutting corners in every way imaginable )
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Thread Starter

Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
That's a DC-Motor,
you'd be better-off with a regular-ole AC-Induction-Motor,
even one that's ~50 years old.

You certainly can use a DC-Motor for those functions,
but it will be expensive, and maybe too complex for your liking.

To do it the proper way, You will need a very large Choke,
( a Microwave-Oven-Transformer might do the job ),
and about 10-large Capacitors,
feeding a very high power DC PWM Voltage-Regulator,
to supply the Motor.
But at least You automatically get the bonus of adjustable Speed-Control,

( The Circuitry that the Treadmill came with is not my idea of the proper way to do it,
it obviously died a miserable death because of the manufacturer cutting corners in every way imaginable )
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I does come with a very large choke as big as microwave oven transformer, plus I have many.
But getting a high power PWM DC voltage regulator is not cheap, that is for sure.
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
26,270
I cannot speak for the one you have, but the MC-2100 PWM DC TM controllers and motors make excellent shop asset for different projects, even the MC-60 SCR version is fairly popular as well where simple uses such as Drill stand etc.
The PMW versions do not use a choke, as the PWM is smoothed out by the average current wave form, i.e. current does not conform to the same wave form as the applied PWM voltage does.
The MC-60 however does need a choke , as it is 120hz controlled.
With AC 3ph motors, there is the VFD but if you get a TM controller and motor, you are ahead, $$$wise.
You may have to do a little reverse-engineering to see what you need for the one you have.
 

Thread Starter

Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
I cannot speak for the one you have, but the MC-2100 PWM DC TM controllers and motors make excellent shop asset for different projects, even the MC-60 SCR version is fairly popular as well where simple uses such as Drill stand etc.
The PMW versions do not use a choke, as the PWM is smoothed out by the average current wave form, i.e. current does not conform to the same wave form as the applied PWM voltage does.
The MC-60 however does need a choke , as it is 120hz controlled.
With AC 3ph motors, there is the VFD but if you get a TM controller and motor, you are ahead, $$$wise.
You may have to do a little reverse-engineering to see what you need for the one you have.
==============================
I noticed that all them PWM DC motor controllers are fundamentally low voltage and high amperage design and you still need to supply them with DC power supply to begin with. I have yet to see a PWM that is rated with high voltage as in upper 90 to 100VDC aside from the fact that you have to supply that as input in the first place. I assume you can not just supply them with them chinese ac voltage supply regulators with a full bridge rectifier which ends up to be at around 160-180VDC supply to them.

That motor did run when I supplied it with that cheap chinese AC voltage regulator, rectifier, fuse, switch and I also put in a 1F microwave capacitor. But I think the motor didn't like the 500K potentiometer. I had to turn it almost half way to get the motor to respond.

Those chinese adjustable power supply although may say 110-220VAC, I think they are really meant to be plugged into 220AC.
But that will be way too much voltage and perhaps that is why they use large 500K potentiometer.

I figured I use a 200K potentiometer, the capacitor and also throw in that large choke that it came with, plus that donut choke that was installed in the ground circuit of the motor. Also throw in a high power recitifier (100A) with heatsink.
I sent the cheap regulator back and I figured I get one that comes with a fan.
I was also able to remove the flywheel off the motor. Instead of holding the wrench on the shaft ( there is fortunately a place for a 5/8" wrench there) and turning the flywheel by hand, I held the flywheel by hand while I turned the shaft. That changed the whole torque dynamics and it came out. I thought it was funny, the difference between the two.

Anyway, it certainly wouldn't be pwm, but with the choke and the high power capacitor, the spark on the commutator and the brush will be much less but I would think I will get higher torque compare to its own power supply and pwm complex circuitories. But what do I know. I think the square one is better than the long one. It cost around $30 instead of $20
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1639595966361.png
 
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Thread Starter

Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
I cannot speak for the one you have, but the MC-2100 PWM DC TM controllers and motors make excellent shop asset for different projects, even the MC-60 SCR version is fairly popular as well where simple uses such as Drill stand etc.
The PMW versions do not use a choke, as the PWM is smoothed out by the average current wave form, i.e. current does not conform to the same wave form as the applied PWM voltage does.
The MC-60 however does need a choke , as it is 120hz controlled.
With AC 3ph motors, there is the VFD but if you get a TM controller and motor, you are ahead, $$$wise.
You may have to do a little reverse-engineering to see what you need for the one you have.
=================================
I also have this control board and it works. It came with the other motor. I just used a potentiomter. The motor that it came with and runs it can spin it with pretty high rpm and I have used it to run this red motor. But I don't think it is a very high quality driver. I can't remember but it could be proform X90 or 750 or some such.
It runs this motor: I haven't been able to take the flywheel out. Suits me for now I installed the sand paper right around it with a double face tape.
1639597560674.png
1639597539453.png
1639597273625.png
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
26,270
==============================
I noticed that all them PWM DC motor controllers are fundamentally low voltage and high amperage design and you still need to supply them with DC power supply to begin with.
Have you looked at the HQ-SXPWM-X PWM ?
Some on the CNCzone forum are using them for DC spindle controllers.
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
2,628
After You smoke 2 or 3 of those Chinese trinket-thingies, and get tired of it,
maybe then we can talk about what is required for reliable control of one of these Motors.

~2000-Watts worth of control doesn't come cheap and easy.
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Thread Starter

Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
After You smoke 2 or 3 of those Chinese trinket-thingies, and get tired of it,
maybe then we can talk about what is required for reliable control of one of these Motors.

~2000-Watts worth of control doesn't come cheap and easy.
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==================================
Are you gauging to see if I am serious enough, and have attention stamina to walk the real road?
There is only one way to find out.
I am here paying close attention. Now you have to see if it is true. :)
Principle of operation, details, maps, specifications, let me have it.
( I have a 50 year old Thor brinch grinder. It was a force to be reckoned with. It has been an ever presence in my life, outliving many wives and it is still ticking and finally it has got little hick up but so do I)
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
2,628
The first thing You need to determine is .......
Will You need all of the Power that this Motor can produce ?
1.5-Horsepower is probably over-kill for a Sander or Grinder.
0.5-Horsepower is probably closer to the Power You may need.

I'm not sure how stable the RPM will be this particular design of Motor,
You may need to add some sort of Tachometer Sensor to stabilize the Speed and
keep it in a safe range,
( Grinding-Wheels do have a maximum safe RPM-rating, and they CAN explode ).

A Regulator for 7-Amps of DC-Current is certainly easier, and cheaper, than a ~21.4-Amp Controller.
Current-Limiting is easy to build into a Regulator, and is the preferred method of Motor Control.

Tachometer .........
It will be up to your ingenuity as to how to add a securely mounted "Interrupter-Wheel" for
an Optical-Tach, or, install ~2-Magnets for a Hall-Effect-Tach, and provide a stout mounting-bracket
that will not vibrate or be easily damaged.
The Hall-Effect-Tach is probably the most reliable of the 2 methods.

Then You will need an Aluminum-Box for the Electronics,
and some kind of Plastic or Aluminum Box for the Capacitors,
then a Fuse-Holder -->
Inrush-Current-Limiter and/or Microwave Oven Transformer, ( MOT as an Inductor is recommended ) -->
Bridge-Rectifier -->
Capacitor-Bank -->
PWM-Current-Regulator with Manual and Tachometer Inputs --> Motor.

This will probably cost ~$200.oo, or more, by the time You are finished,
and will provide excellent control,
but You could buy a brand-new AC-Induction-Motor for that price.

If You are still interested in the DIY version, let me know,
it will take a couple of days of my spare time to make up a parts-list and a Schematic,
but I'd rather not burn the time if this is out of your price-range or experience-level.
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Thread Starter

Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
This will probably cost ~$200.oo, or more, by the time You are finished,
and will provide excellent control,
but You could buy a brand-new AC-Induction-Motor for that price.

If You are still interested in the DIY version, let me know,
it will take a couple of days of my spare time to make up a parts-list and a Schematic,
but I'd rather not burn the time if this is out of your price-range or experience-level.
.
.
.
==================================

Chances are very high that I have everything in your list. I have the parts of at least half dozen microwave ovens, few of commercial power converter/battery charger/inverter emergy power supplies, a dozen various washing machine parts, dryers, printers, computers, fax machines, copy machines, televisions of various kinds, vacuum, centerfuge, and few other anomolies. It won't hurt my feelings to get as much power as I can from this motor. This motor is probably in the 60 lbs vicinity. It is three times as heavy as all the other ones I see on Youtube which is the type that I have glued that sandpaper on it.
There is no rush or deadline that I have to conform to to make it happen. In fact I like to see the scenery vividly instead of rushing to see the end.

[By the way I just realized whey you asked how much power I want out of the motor. There are many reasons for it. Aside from fake horsepower ratings putting that aside. A genuine 1 hp is all the horses I need, going to true horse power and not heat and bearings]
 

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MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
26,270
That is a nice motor, the beauty with the TM controller variety is the ramp up control plus a few other features etc .
You will need the ramp up, either auto or manual if you keep the flywheel on.
 

Thread Starter

Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
That is a nice motor, the beauty with the TM controller variety is the ramp up control plus a few other features etc .
You will need the ramp up, either auto or manual if you keep the flywheel on.
===========================
I rescued it from a junkyard like I have all my other hoardings.
One time a fellow who goes to goverment auctions called me to come and pick up whatever I wanted from his place. You name it and he had it. I somehow managed to get my behind on the road and picked up couple truck load of stuff. I wore myself out picking up anymore stuff. He took the rest to the recycle joint. I don't even know what some of that stuff was.

With all the things I layed on my eyes on, after all it was all said and done one thing got stuck in my attention and that is how complex of circuitories are in copy printer machines. I mean in the commercial kinds that you need a cherry picker to lift. Unbelievable. In one of them I took out two big motors and all kinds of small ones and roller and whatever sensors and more. Layers and layers of stuff.

I took apart one of them flat screen TVs. Behind that screen are layers of various type of sheets I thought are pretty neat stuff. Projection TV's with all them projectors, mirrors, etc.

I have so many of them BLDC motors from LG and Samsung type of washing machines.
There has been a lot of self-teaching going on, just the eyes being exposed and the hands touching every piece. It is amazing to reflect on the creative minds involved and the all the people and machineries and robotics put them together and all the way to the junkyard. But the production can not be stopped, no sir, no how. Right behind U.S. is probably Germany that the production must continue.
 

Thread Starter

Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
Are they the Fischer-Paykel direct drive out-runner versions ?
(outer body turns)
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1639685005526.png

I have saved lots of circuits boards, heat sinks, hall sensors, infrared sensors or whatever sensors.
1639685477168.png



There is a heat sink I don't know what I took it out of is the size of a dvd player.

1639685873351.png

There are couple dozens of these black boxes full of stuff
1639685959837.png
 
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Thread Starter

Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
Are they the Fischer-Paykel direct drive out-runner versions ?
(outer body turns)
================================
In this picture, I turned one of them hub motors from LG using another washing machine induction motor. The hub motor produced 3 phase power which in turn it span the other motor from another washing machine. You can see it below there. That 3 phase is a bosch and it span around 19000 rpm. Make that over 23000 rpm.
1639686229392.png

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