On the surface, maybe. It's very hard to judge from afar. If the 'stand back and do nothing" approach might lead to the kid killing himself with head banging, and the "make an intervention" approach resembles wrestling a rabid raccoon, where both you and the raccoon might become injured, which do you choose?

Based on the idea that I'm the average age of a cop and reasonably healthy,
I think I would come from behind, hug the tiny person, back into a chair with him sitting on my lap, and wait for him to run out of steam.
But then, I'm not trained in the escalation of force and a 7 year old can't make me fear for my life.

Personally, I would never fit in that kind of job. My temperament is not suited to it. But I can think of methods more suitable for people under 80 pounds.

 

On the surface, maybe. It's very hard to judge from afar. If the 'stand back and do nothing" approach might lead to the kid killing himself with head banging, and the "make an intervention" approach resembles wrestling a rabid raccoon, where both you and the raccoon might become injured, which do you choose?

Exactly. I've had personal experience with this. It usually takes a little pain pressure to snap them back to reality while holding them tightly during a full blown meltdown. The trick is to catch it before it become critical (see the signs of ramping up), the lack of the regular teachers aid in this case was the tipping point.

 

Supporting the Constitution has been listed in writing as one type of terrorist. I just can't remember which alphabet agency wrote it.

Probably Homeland Security. In 2009, the Secretary of Homeland Security classified returning veterans as possible terrorists.

 

Some interesting education about how prosecutors prosecute deaths in police custody.
In the Eric Garner choke-hold murder, Mrs. Allen, a neighbor from across the street is a primary witness.
Mrs. Allen said Mr. Garner did not appear to have a pulse. The prosecutor objected. He said, "“Don’t say it like that,” you’re only assuming he didn’t have a pulse.”

When Mrs. Allen said she saw the choke hold that killed Mr. Garner, the prosecutor said, ‘Well, you can’t say they put him in a chokehold,’

Now that it is perfectly clear that dead people don't have a pulse and a video recording also saw the choke-hold, and the coroner agrees with both arguments, why is the prosecutor trying to keep the obvious out of the testimony? Could it be that the prosecutor isn't prosecuting, but defending?

I can only hope to have that quality of prosecution if I am ever charged with a crime.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/nyregion/eric-garner-police-chokehold-staten-island.html?_r=0

 

There will be a lot of demands to have him prosecute their cases.

Then again, he might be leaving civil service for private practice and is working on his style.

 

Justice done.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ficer-shooting-death-terence-crutcher-n761206

An attorney for Shelby later said that she believed Crutcher was under the influence of hallucinogenic drugs. Shelby, a former deputy for the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office, had previously completed drug-recognition expert training.

An attorney for Shelby later said that she believed Crutcher was under the influence of hallucinogenic drugs. Shelby, a former deputy for the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office, had previously completed drug-recognition expert training.

A toxicology report revealed that Crutcher was on two hallucinogenic drugs, including PCP, during the encounter. It took at least two minutes after Crutcher was shot before police attempted aid, according to officers.
...
Jerad Lindsey, chairman of Tulsa Fraternal Order of Police, said that the jury's verdict was the right one, but said the shooting was a tragedy. "There's no winners in this," he said. "There's still a family that has dealt with a tragedy here, the Crutchers, and we still extend our deepest sympathies to them."

The shooting was a tragedy but totally preventable. Don't use hallucinogenic drugs like PCP and drive on the streets. That's a superconducting magnet for trouble with a cop if you're black.

 

Justice done.

Don't use hallucinogenic drugs like PCP and drive on the streets. That's a superconducting magnet for trouble with a cop if you're black.

Good job of blaming the victim!
A couple of problems with that. There were no drugs found inside Terence Crutcher and any drugs that might or might not have been found later were found long after the LEO needed a reason to fire on, "no crime suspected".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shard...death-exposes-racism-drug-war_b_12120540.html
https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/264259/was-terence-crutcher-pcp-daniel-greenfield

I think you should actually read the story before somebody tells you where to stuff that, "justice".

 

Oh look! Here's another one today, dead based on, "no crime happened". Would you like to contribute to the drug tests at the autopsy?

"A video shows Las Vegas police officers using excessive force against an unarmed man. Several officers attacked the victim, while he was tased several times and put in an unapproved chokehold. Had he survived, he would have faced no criminal charges."
https://www.rt.com/usa/388816-tased-man-dies-video/

 

Good job of blaming the victim!
A couple of problems with that. There were no drugs found inside Terence Crutcher and any drugs that might or might not have been found later were found long after the LEO needed a reason to fire on, "no crime suspected".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shard...death-exposes-racism-drug-war_b_12120540.html
https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/264259/was-terence-crutcher-pcp-daniel-greenfield

I think you should actually read the story before somebody tells you where to stuff that, "justice".

I'm saying there is some responsibility for being stupid and breaking the law. Acute phencyclidine intoxication is not the same as a little pot buzz.

I guess the
Toxicology Report
was just a big lie.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...pcp-system-when-tulsa-police-shot-him-n664656

The toxicology report, released by the Oklahoma Chief Medical Examiner's Office Tuesday afternoon, indicates that PCP, known medically as Phencyclidine, was found in Crutcher's blood. Traces of a similar hallucinogenic drug, Tenocyclidine, were also found.

It is unclear how the toxicology results could impact the case against Shelby, who prosecutors said "reacted unreasonably" and became "emotionally involved to the point that she overreacted."

http://kfor.com/2016/10/12/terence-...gy-report-doesnt-change-facts-of-the-tragedy/

TULSA, Okla. – Terence Crutcher, whose shooting by a police officer in Tulsa, Oklahoma, was captured on camera, had the drug known as PCP in his system during the incident, according to a toxicology report released Tuesday.

The case drew national attention after police released videos showing Crutcher walking on the road with his arms in the air before the shooting.

Scott Wood, an attorney for Shelby, said in an email that the autopsy report confirms what Officer Shelby surmised the night of the shooting from Crutcher’s appearance and noncompliance.

“Does the fact he was under the influence of pcp in and of itself justify the shooting? Of course not,” Wood wrote in an email. “It does however, help to explain his behavior, and that she was correct to consider him unpredictable, and therefore a significant threat to her safety. One of the recognized risks of pcp is that it can lead to self destructive behavior. It is another piece of the fact pattern which led to Mr. Crutcher’s death.”

http://www.theroot.com/okla-medical-examiner-releases-terence-crutcher-autops-1790857198

Terence Crutcher, the unarmed black man who was fatally shot by a white female police officer in Tulsa, Okla., had PCP in his system when he died from the fatal gunshot wound, according to a medical examiner’s report released Tuesday, the Washington Post reports. The report, from the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner in Oklahoma, says that Crutcher, 40, had “acute phencyclidine intoxication” when he was shot by officer Betty Shelby on Sept. 16.

 

I think you should actually read the story before somebody tells you where to stuff that, "justice".

For the record this is my original comment on this story on blame.

https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/...s-another-chapter.125618/page-32#post-1041734

Yes, the 'victim' shares blame if their drug induced actions contributed to their death. I personally see the guys actions during the incident as very bizarre if he was just a broken down motorist in the middle of the road. There is at least two minutes of not cooperative interaction with Crutcher before shots are fired. That's plenty of time to determine his current threat level as possibly dangerous. Deadly force being used here IMO is likely another case of officer panic that's borderline justifiable due to Crutcher's actions.

 

I'm saying there is some responsibility for being stupid and breaking the law. Acute phencyclidine intoxication is not the same as a little pot buzz.

Since there is no numbers reporting the PCP 'level' at the time that doesn't automatically make him "high" at the time.

"Some sources suggest that its elimination half-life ranges between 7 hours to 46 hours (with an average of 21 hours). Assuming these sources are accurate, this means it could take you anywhere from 1.6 and 10.54 days to fully eliminate 100% of the PCP from your system. Considering the “average” PCP half-life of 21 hours, it would take just under 10 days (9.6) for PCP to get fully eliminated.

Other sources suggest that due to PCPs slow release from lipid stores, its half life is really approximately 3 days (72 hours). If a half-life of 3 days is accurate for PCP, you can expect that the drug will take up to 17 days for the drug to be fully eliminated from your system. That said, since there is significant individual variation among PCP users, it can be expected that some people will retain the drug for a longer duration within their system compared to others."
From, http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/10/15/how-long-does-pcp-stay-in-your-system-phencyclidine/

 

Since there is no numbers reporting the PCP 'level' at the time that doesn't automatically make him "high" at the time.

Did you notice the word ACUTE in the TOX report? That has a specific medically significant meaning. The guy was far past just "high".
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7235337

We describe four major and five minor clinical patterns of acute phencyclidine (PCP) intoxication and give the incidence of findings in each pattern. Major patterns were acute brain syndrome (248 cases; 24.8%), toxic psychosis (166 cases; 16.6%), catatonic syndrome (117 cases; 11.7%), and coma (106 cases; 10.6%). Minor patterns included lethargy or stupor (38 cases; 3.8%), and combinations of bizarre behavior, violence, agitation, and euphoria in patients who were alert and oriented (325 cases; 32.5%).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phencyclidine

http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/terminology/acute_intox/en/

Intoxication is highly dependent on the type and dose of drug and is influenced by an individual's level of tolerance and other factors. Frequently, a drug is taken in order to achieve a desired degree of intoxication. The behavioural expression of a given level of intoxication is strongly influenced by cultural and personal expectations about the effects of the drug.

Acute intoxication is the term in ICD-I0 for intoxication of clinical significance. Complications may include trauma, inhalation of vomitus, delirium, coma, and convulsions, depending on the substance and method of administration.

 

http://nypost.com/2017/05/18/times-square-maniac-told-cops-i-wanted-to-kill-them/

He was out for blood — and looking for a suicide-by-cop.

The Bronx man who plowed his car into a Times Square crowd, killing a teen tourist and injuring 22 others, wanted to commit murder, and then wanted cops to kill him, police sources said.

“You were supposed to shoot me! I wanted to kill them,” Richard Rojas, 26, told police, according to sources.

http://nypost.com/2017/05/18/raging-driver-tried-to-flee-scene-of-fatal-crash/

 

Did you notice the word ACUTE in the TOX report? That has a specific medically significant meaning. The guy was far past just "high".

Acute .... isn't that "pretty" high.

Yeah, the cop had training in identifying drug use, in other words, can give expert testimony. I guess the cop don't know $hit. [/sarcasm]

Those officers that take the drug use identification program, or whatever it's called, they are considered expert witnesses in the jurist prudence system. They also must have REFTRA periodically.

 

I'm sorry, Nsa... but there's a limit to everything, this atrocity should never have happened, not even in the name of objectivity. Those cops behaved like animalized brutes and the school acted like a freaking disciplinary machine... this was simply inhumane and inexcusable.

Actually the school likely responded with the only methods it had available and is allowed to use.

Law enforcement being called to public schools to deal with physically out of control kids is standard operating procedure now regardless of the what issue is driving it. It's the only legal defence they have against sue happy parents looking to cash in on whatever their unruly or disabled kid (who shouldn't be in a public school systems might get them.

People may not like it but it's something they caused themselves by requiring public schools to take on more and more children who have needs and disabilities that not so long ago would have had them in private systems where kids with legitimate special needs are surrounded by properly qualified and trained people who can deal with their issues.

Contrary to what so many people think a public school system is not there to cater equally to everyone for everything they need. There is a resources range an limit of how much one kid getsadnthe exteam resource demand kids have toe be weeded out by whatever legal actions the system has to work with which at this point in how our society works having your kid dragged out of the school by law enforcement is about the only legal method they have left to get them out and keep them out for the betterment of the whole.

The public school systems primary job is to educate those who are educateable so that they can go onto become decent productive members of society. However , given every legitimate or not so legitimate special needs kid they have to deal with eats up 5 - 10+ times the financial and overall system resources that any normal kid requires (everyone else's education suffers for it) they have to take more extreme and legally backed measures to get the kids out of the systems that are truly beyond their ability and justifiable capacity to deal with.

So yes. This event should have never happened because had the public school systems been allowed to operate and run with the best interest of the greater good and student body majority in mind that kid, like they used to do, would have never been there to begin with but would have been in a proper special needs educational facility where people with the correct and proper training and skills to deal with such situations would have been there right from the start.

Personally I don't blame the school system or the cops. They did exactly what they are trained and legally allowed to do for the reason they exist.
I blame the kids parents for putting him/her in a public school where that kid is a high level distraction and burden on an already overloaded and under performing system where those who could use and will benefit from the resources that kid takes up are not because their educational resource allotment is being dragged down by such other kids who don't belong there.

What's fair is not always equal and what's equal is not always fair hence trying to educate everyone to the same level (when many are not capable of working with a standardized education method in general) has pulled the majority down to a lower level rather than lifting the lesser individuals up to the average.

 

I completely agree it should not have happened but it's a pretty good bet the cops will not be charged if they followed the rules to the letter because that's the environment cops operate under today. Going off on them diverts from the root cause of why this happened.

It happened because of parents wanting the public school systems to be responsible for everything they don't feel like taking care of themselves. Someone's kid who needs resources a public school system can ever possibly cover was put in the wrong place and the system handled it the only way they have the capacity to do so.

 

Actually the school likely responded with the only methods it had available and is allowed to use.

Law enforcement being called to public schools to deal with physically out of control kids is standard operating procedure now regardless of the what issue is driving it. It's the only legal defence they have against sue happy parents looking to cash in on whatever their unruly or disabled kid (who shouldn't be in a public school systems might get them.

People may not like it but it's something they caused themselves by requiring public schools to take on more and more children who have needs and disabilities that not so long ago would have had them in private systems where kids with legitimate special needs are surrounded by properly qualified and trained people who can deal with their issues.

Contrary to what so many people think a public school system is not there to cater equally to everyone for everything they need. There is a resources range an limit of how much one kid getsadnthe exteam resource demand kids have toe be weeded out by whatever legal actions the system has to work with which at this point in how our society works having your kid dragged out of the school by law enforcement is about the only legal method they have left to get them out and keep them out for the betterment of the whole.

The public school systems primary job is to educate those who are educateable so that they can go onto become decent productive members of society. However , given every legitimate or not so legitimate special needs kid they have to deal with eats up 5 - 10+ times the financial and overall system resources that any normal kid requires (everyone else's education suffers for it) they have to take more extreme and legally backed measures to get the kids out of the systems that are truly beyond their ability and justifiable capacity to deal with.

So yes. This event should have never happened because had the public school systems been allowed to operate and run with the best interest of the greater good and student body majority in mind that kid, like they used to do, would have never been there to begin with but would have been in a proper special needs educational facility where people with the correct and proper training and skills to deal with such situations would have been there right from the start.

Personally I don't blame the school system or the cops. They did exactly what they are trained and legally allowed to do for the reason they exist.
I blame the kids parents for putting him/her in a public school where that kid is a high level distraction and burden on an already overloaded and under performing system where those who could use and will benefit from the resources that kid takes up are not because their educational resource allotment is being dragged down by such other kids who don't belong there.

What's fair is not always equal and what's equal is not always fair hence trying to educate everyone to the same level (when many are not capable of working with a standardized education method in general) has pulled the majority down to a lower level rather than lifting the lesser individuals up to the average.

So, I am interested to know, yet again, how did it come to be that so many are uneducationable now? What will happen to these children when they are adults? What does the future hold for a society that chose this route? Not sure I want to be here to bear witness...

"we have met the enemy, and he is us"

 

It happened because of parents wanting the public school systems to be responsible for everything they don't feel like taking care of themselves. Someone's kid who needs resources a public school system can ever possibly cover was put in the wrong place and the system handled it the only way they have the capacity to do so.

I'm very lucky my child was not main-streamed when young and had a specialized classroom with many special-ed teachers. I got the call instead of the police the few times he had a major meltdown at school.

 

So, I am interested to know, yet again, how did it come to be that so many are uneducationable now? What will happen to these children when they are adults? What does the future hold for a society that chose this route? Not sure I want to be here to bear witness...

"we have met the enemy, and he is us"

Many will be good responsible adults with a lot of help, love and supervision.

My son with autism graduated from high school with a modified diploma and is doing just fine now.

 

So, I am interested to know, yet again, how did it come to be that so many are uneducationable now? What will happen to these children when they are adults? What does the future hold for a society that chose this route? Not sure I want to be here to bear witness...

"we have met the enemy, and he is us"

Too many who don't belong in the common public school systems have been placed there and to accommodate them the overall quality of education has been brought down severely so that they can keep up.

I think the same average percentage is educatable but as of right now too much emphasis is put on 'individuality at all costs' over becoming a functional and active contributor to society.

I don't know where the next generation (the candy-ass generation ) of people coming into the world will fit but going by everything they present so far I will be glad I will be too old to care at that point.

I was recently told that for any higher skilled positions that today 30 - 50 applicants have to be screened to find one ho may be worth hiring and of every 4 - 8 that do get hired only will make it year before being fired or quitting because they cant or wont do their job as the title and positions duties required of them.