Step up Dc-DC and inductive load pump

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
5,101
I would skip the version with the Enable-Pin because the
Quiescent-Current will probably be below ~1mA,
which the Battery can probably supply for weeks or more,
and I can't think of a good reason to add the extra complexity.

There will also be no programming necessary for insuring that
the EN-Pin has an adequate delay to insure that the En-Pin does not go Low before the Motor stops.
Although, I see that You have included a Freewheeling-Diode, so this issue is no-longer important.

Don't forget the bypass Capacitor on the Vcc-Pin, very close to the Chip.

The GPIO-Outputs can directly drive the IN-Pin,
but not the En-Pin,
because the En-Pin requires roughly ~9-Volts to turn-on the Chip.

Otherwise, go for it !!!
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Thread Starter

DJ_AA

Joined Aug 6, 2021
490
Thanks
This is the updated design. Do I still need a diode?
In regards to the "In" pin, the datasheet shows it required a minimum of 3.5V, but my microcontroller is working on 3.3V,
1710413597319.png
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
5,101
The Freewheeling-Diode offers additional protection, and has no downside.
Just make sure that it can handle at least ~2-Amps, ( ~0.5-Watts ).

No "Voltage-Level-Shifting" is required between the Gate-Driver, and the Micro-Controller.

The IN-Pin does not require ~12-Volts.

I don't understand why You are not driving the IN-Pin directly,
it only requires around ~3-Volts,
( at virtually zero-Current, and with only some trivial amount of Capacitance ),
and, You have ~4-Volts available from the Micro-Controller to drive it.

I don't know how your GPIO-Outputs are set up to operate,
but it may be that a simple "Pull-Up" Resistor, ( to ~4-Volts ), "could be" required,
but if the GPIO-Outputs can both Source and Sink a very tiny amount of Current, as delivered,
then not even a Pull-Up Resistor will be required.

The ~10K-Resistor is only there for IN-Pin protection against Over-Voltage and Voltage-Spikes.
It has nothing to do with how much, or how little, Current that the IN-Pin may require.

If the Gate-Driver, and the Micro-Controller, are mounted next to each other on the same Board,
the IN-Pin Resistor will be of questionable benefit,
so just connect them directly to each other, with no additional Components wanted or needed.

Just keep in mind that the Gate-Driver-IN-Pin is a MOS device that can easily be damaged by Static-Electricity.
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Thread Starter

DJ_AA

Joined Aug 6, 2021
490
Well our 4.2V is the battery voltage for the GSM module, but the microcontroller is working on 3.3V but data sheet shows minimum is 3.5V not 3 V. I am now changing my design, will need the level shift , otherwise i will not be ble to provide anything above 3.3V, therefore as 12V is alread there i have choosen to use that.

1710452821293.png

So how can we protect the IN pin from Static Electrcity?
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
5,101
The IN-Pin has protection-Diodes to prevent any Over-Voltage-Conditions,
but the Diodes are very limp-wristed and tiny,
meaning that they can't deal with very much Current,
the Resistor is to limit excessive Current that might pop the Diodes.
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.Iput Pin Thresholds .png
 

Thread Starter

DJ_AA

Joined Aug 6, 2021
490
As I am using 12V, the Input threshold is much lower; I guess it's in the 2.5V range.

So i have removed the unessary level circuit but do i need to add anything additional to protecting and notice or spike from the pump traveling into the 12V?

1710518934377.png
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
5,101
You "probably" don't need any other Components regarding Motor-Electrical-Noise.

More Bypass-Capacitors on the Gate-Driver Vcc-Input will also reduce Switching-Noise,
add a 10nF and a 470mF to the Vcc-Pin, close to the Chip.

More is better with Bypass-Capacitors.

If You are particularly concerned about Motor-Noise do this ............
Common-Mode-Choke
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Comm Mode Choke SC-04-200J .jpg.
Motor Filter .png.
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Thread Starter

DJ_AA

Joined Aug 6, 2021
490
Thanks

I will add 10nF, but

is it 470mF or 470nF ?

What I want to avoid is the feedback having spikes and damaging my circuit; therefore, would a motor driver from maybe TI also be a good choice, or is this not necessary?
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
5,101
A dedicated "Motor-Driver" Chip is in just as much danger
from Spikes as any other Chip or Transistor would be.

The danger is caused by Radio-Frequency-Interference or RFI
which is generated by the Arcing of the Carbon-Brushes inside the Motor.

"Feedback" is an incorrect term when used in relation to these "Spikes".

All Filter Components should be mounted as closely as possible to the Motor-Terminals,
because RFI can be "Broadcasted" into the Air from either Motor-Terminal.
The wiring to the Motor can act like an Antenna for the RFI-Noise.

Sometimes RFI can cause erratic-operation, or random-Re-Boots, of a Micro-Controller.

470uF is not a typo.
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Thread Starter

DJ_AA

Joined Aug 6, 2021
490
A dedicated "Motor-Driver" Chip is in just as much danger
from Spikes as any other Chip or Transistor would be.

The danger is caused by Radio-Frequency-Interference or RFI
which is generated by the Arcing of the Carbon-Brushes inside the Motor.

"Feedback" is an incorrect term when used in relation to these "Spikes".

All Filter Components should be mounted as closely as possible to the Motor-Terminals,
because RFI can be "Broadcasted" into the Air from either Motor-Terminal.
The wiring to the Motor can act like an Antenna for the RFI-Noise.

Sometimes RFI can cause erratic-operation, or random-Re-Boots, of a Micro-Controller.

470uF is not a typo.
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Thanks

Just out of curiosity, what about a Relay? Are there any advantages or disadvantages compared to your recordation?
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
5,101
A Relay can work just as well, until it wears-out and starts becoming unreliable.
But a Relay does absolutely nothing to prevent RFI-Interference,
which can get into your Micro-Controller and cause it to wack-out, and do crazy things,
so the Motor-Filtering is still necessary to some unknown degree,
no matter how the Motor is switched.

The answer is ........ it depends.

You can either blow-up stuff until You figure-out what will be the minimum effort required,
or,
You can use plenty of "preventative-over-kill" in the design in order to
add some "insurance" that You are "less likely" to blow-up anything.
And even with your best efforts,
there are no guarantees until You try a particular design, and run it long-term.
Then when it fails, You can diagnose the apparent problem, and hopefully correct it

I've inadvertently blow-up lots of stuff over the past ~60-years,
its the price You pay for lack of experience.
As You gain more experience, You will "usually" blow-up "less" stuff .......... sometimes.

All of the minute details matter, especially the ones that You didn't even know existed.
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LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
5,101
A MOSFET, or a Relay, or a Gate-Driver ..........
None are necessarily "better" than the other.
Each has it's advantages, and each has it's disadvantages.

All three will get the job done if implemented in a workable manner,
and combined with other compatible Components,
that will result in a project that will function reliably.

Since You are making a project,
that I assume must operate with high reliably because it is remotely located and controlled,
I would not use any Device made in China.
China is definitely "capable" of manufacturing excellent products,
but unfortunately, ~99% of it is of REALLY questionable quality, and there are zero guarantees.

What does your remote "Pump" actually do ?
What happens if it fails to operate ?
What happens if it gets stuck "On".
 

Irving

Joined Jan 30, 2016
5,124
If you go with that gate driver you WILL need a decent heatsink above around 1.5A continuous. For 3A+ continuous you are better off with the TO220 cased version as its easier to find suitable heatsinks. For 8A continuous you will need a heatsink better than 0.6°C/W which will likely be force-aircooled to achieve that in a reasonable size.

Personally a single MOSFET properly drven (ie turned on hard) will be a lot simpler. An IRFZ44N MOSFET will dissipate approx 1W at 8A and needs no heatsink at 25°C ambient when driven with a gate voltage of around 10v - you could use that gate driver (overkill at $9) or a IR2110 or IR2153 (at $3) or any number of other lo-side drivers sub-1A output.
 

Thread Starter

DJ_AA

Joined Aug 6, 2021
490
A MOSFET, or a Relay, or a Gate-Driver ..........
None are necessarily "better" than the other.
Each has it's advantages, and each has it's disadvantages.

All three will get the job done if implemented in a workable manner,
and combined with other compatible Components,
that will result in a project that will function reliably.

Since You are making a project,
that I assume must operate with high reliably because it is remotely located and controlled,
I would not use any Device made in China.
China is definitely "capable" of manufacturing excellent products,
but unfortunately, ~99% of it is of REALLY questionable quality, and there are zero guarantees.

What does your remote "Pump" actually do ?
What happens if it fails to operate ?
What happens if it gets stuck "On".
I have gone ahead with adding the Mosfet driver you suggested :

This is my PCB layout, I needed to add two drivers. For all the 12V inputs and output, my copper is on Top, Bottom and VCC layers,

In regards to what the pump does, it's a small water pump. If it gets stuck or on/off, we would get some sort of alert of no water flowing or water has run out.

PCB_driver.png
 

Thread Starter

DJ_AA

Joined Aug 6, 2021
490
@LowQCab

We have been using the IXD part with no problem, driving our small water pump motor.. The max current we reach is about 1-1.2A max.

We are also using the following part in another PCB. DRV8231 data sheet, product information and support | TI.com

We are thinking about replacing the IXD part with the TI part for both low cost and to have a common part list.

Is there anything I need to remember regarding such an H-Bridge Driver?

In my case, I would be driving the motor only in one direction.
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
5,101
The DRV8231 part will be fine as long as Heat-Sinking and SMD-Board-Design is paid particular attention,
this is not a "DIY-friendly" part because of it's packaging requirements.

When using a FET-Gate-Driver, You must keep in mind that these devices are designed
primarily for very short duration Current-Spikes from a Capacitive-Load.
Their "name-plate-ratings" are "Peak" ratings, not RMS Ratings.
Some Gate-Drivers will give You a "continuous" Current-Rating, and others won't,
but sometimes You can find an "Output-Resistance" rating which may tell You a lot about
how much HEAT it is likely to generate under stressful conditions.
The advantage of these parts is that they come in a TO-220-5 Package
that is easy to mount and can dissipate a substantial amount of HEAT.
SMD-Packages have a whole "bucket of worms" that must be taken into consideration when
designing the Board, and also when Soldering the Components in place.
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Thread Starter

DJ_AA

Joined Aug 6, 2021
490
@LowQCab Thanks

Yes, we aim to use the SOIC version, instead of the smaller package. and follow the guidelines of connecting GND copper pours + GND planes that would act as a heat sink.

With the TI device, I think the protection circuit is also included in the same design.

Would a pump be seen as a capacitive load?
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
5,101
No,
Motors are virtually always extremely Inductive.

This brings up a very interesting thing to note ...........
The FET-Gate-Driver concept has a super-fast "push-pull" Output that
can suppress the Electrical-Hash that Brushed-Motors generate to a certain degree, if not completely.
This may also be a feature built-in to the DRV8231 Chip as well, I don't know how fast or sophisticated it may be,
but I do know that an H-Bridge built with 4 external MOSFETs generally must have additional Components
that are designed to suppress or control the Hash, whereas the Gate-Drivers can usually deal with it
because they are specifically designed to be extremely fast-Switching,
and their Outputs remain in a Low-Impedance-state at all times,
with almost non-existent "Shoot-Through" problems that must be avoided at all costs
when employing an H-Bridge with 4-Independent-FETs.
This is because there is virtually zero time when all of the Switches are in a High-Impedance-state,
whereas, this is SOP, and significantly-long, time-wise, for a standard design H-Bridge.
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Thread Starter

DJ_AA

Joined Aug 6, 2021
490
@LowQCab

So, can you explain what an is Electrical-Hash? Is that the peak current you normally get when a motor starts? I think the TI part does protect against that.
 
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