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Solar Install - best starting place for easy expasion later
- Thread starter Upex
- Start date
Perhaps a solar torch could do it?Can you shine some light on to the panel?
Lol, in all fairness though, I do think it picked up a few amps when it was sunny the other day. Will check and report back. That may have been with my silver car parked infront of the door, so may have bounced a bit more on the panel?
When turned away from the Sun, solar panel produces some 10% of the rated power. It's a little bit more when there are some clouds to reflect from. So, all you can get is 40W for about 5-6 hours a day - 200WH. Buying the same amount of energy from the grid will cost about $8/year or $200 for the life of panels. You don't need a thick wire to transport 40W of electricity to the garage. A regularly sized extension cord will do fine at this load, even at 150m distance.
If your house is 150m from the garage, perhaps there's some place on your land where you can install panels facing South. A stand on the ground, a pole, or a roof mounted stand are all good candidates.
Panels will be twice as expensive (or more) if you go with 80W panels compared to big 250-300W panels.
If your house is 150m from the garage, perhaps there's some place on your land where you can install panels facing South. A stand on the ground, a pole, or a roof mounted stand are all good candidates.
Panels will be twice as expensive (or more) if you go with 80W panels compared to big 250-300W panels.
howdy, not sure if your getting the scenario, putting more panels in is not going to make the whole system work any better if it can't use full potential of even one panel. i'd be looking at finding a way to get the panel(s) pointing south. saves having to go to additional cost of 10 panels @ ambient light to achieve the output of one facing the right direction sun light. you also taking up 10 times the space.
and i'd be sticking with a larger inverter, i liked the various petrol cans analogy
edit: quote tags
The 'gap' between my land and my garage is someone else and has house there, so no room to move panels at all. As said previously, I can not mount them on and other face of my garage other than due north. Its a funny scenario and far from ideal. Thus my exploration with this thread.
I (shys away) have linked a few extenstion before when I had to have electric for the big drill (don't have one that's 150m long) and it seemed to work fine, the only problem with that is that I have to roll them in and out each time I want power (can not leave them out as not safe obviously, and crossed other people's land). This scenario obviously doesn't help for me to be able to have lights in there so I can see when looking for some paint or tools etc.
The light is my main objective and I'm comfortable with that, panel, cc, battery and the 12v lights run from cc, or even batterys (what's best out of these two).
Although I'd have loved to have occasional use for the Hoover etc (to save daisy chaining extensions) this seems unusable given the light, but surely there is a way to have an occasional charging point for 12v stuff, as well as supplying the lights? Ie lights for a 5 minutes every other day and charge my bike lights once a week (in winter) and my screwdriver and little drill once a month say.
If all this can litterally only achieve the lights. I'd be better using battery lights and just replacing the batteries.
I guess if I can not find the better way of addressing this, then I can have 2 set ups to meet my needs. 1 or more panels on a cc and battery for the lights and an entirely separate setup of 1 or more panels, another cc and seperate batteries to offer me some charging juice at 12v. This is effectively what I'm after, just in an more efficient way. Ie when the light battery is fully charged, that panels out put will be wasted, so I want to push that to the other batteries, and visa versa of course. If I've not used the 12v reserve to charge anything and its full, then those panels can help charge the light battery to.
If its too difficult to tie in the two circuits this way, ill head down the seperate path, but one question on that. If I check the batterys and one set are full, would I be able to change connnection and say add the lights panel into the others that are charging the bigger bank fiarly easily? (not read up on how to join multipul panels yet).
The only other thing I saw last night was a cc that had output to 2 batteries. This would be perfect for me. All panels to one cc, that branches off to two battery banks, however, am I right in assuming that both battery banks have to be identical? As mine aren't :-( definately got one bigger than the other!
I (shys away) have linked a few extenstion before when I had to have electric for the big drill (don't have one that's 150m long) and it seemed to work fine, the only problem with that is that I have to roll them in and out each time I want power (can not leave them out as not safe obviously, and crossed other people's land). This scenario obviously doesn't help for me to be able to have lights in there so I can see when looking for some paint or tools etc.
The light is my main objective and I'm comfortable with that, panel, cc, battery and the 12v lights run from cc, or even batterys (what's best out of these two).
Although I'd have loved to have occasional use for the Hoover etc (to save daisy chaining extensions) this seems unusable given the light, but surely there is a way to have an occasional charging point for 12v stuff, as well as supplying the lights? Ie lights for a 5 minutes every other day and charge my bike lights once a week (in winter) and my screwdriver and little drill once a month say.
If all this can litterally only achieve the lights. I'd be better using battery lights and just replacing the batteries.
I guess if I can not find the better way of addressing this, then I can have 2 set ups to meet my needs. 1 or more panels on a cc and battery for the lights and an entirely separate setup of 1 or more panels, another cc and seperate batteries to offer me some charging juice at 12v. This is effectively what I'm after, just in an more efficient way. Ie when the light battery is fully charged, that panels out put will be wasted, so I want to push that to the other batteries, and visa versa of course. If I've not used the 12v reserve to charge anything and its full, then those panels can help charge the light battery to.
If its too difficult to tie in the two circuits this way, ill head down the seperate path, but one question on that. If I check the batterys and one set are full, would I be able to change connnection and say add the lights panel into the others that are charging the bigger bank fiarly easily? (not read up on how to join multipul panels yet).
The only other thing I saw last night was a cc that had output to 2 batteries. This would be perfect for me. All panels to one cc, that branches off to two battery banks, however, am I right in assuming that both battery banks have to be identical? As mine aren't :-( definately got one bigger than the other!
If having lighting is your first objective, use rechargeable batteries and LED lightning. You can use 12V batteries as originally planned for your solar powered charging system.
How do you charge the batteries? Instead of an expensive inefficient PV system, get a battery cart and take the batteries back to your house. Charge the batteries via normal AC mains outlet, using a battery charger, of course. Maybe you only have to recharge the battery once a month. This would be a lot less expensive than a PV system. If you wish, install the PV charging system at your house facing southwards to capture direct sunlight.
How do you charge the batteries? Instead of an expensive inefficient PV system, get a battery cart and take the batteries back to your house. Charge the batteries via normal AC mains outlet, using a battery charger, of course. Maybe you only have to recharge the battery once a month. This would be a lot less expensive than a PV system. If you wish, install the PV charging system at your house facing southwards to capture direct sunlight.
Sneaker charger! Love it. And when/if the OP gets tired of carting a battery around, he could run a small genny once in a while in the garage. I once stayed in a cabin on a lake off-grid in Canada. We ran the generator less than 30min a day and had plenty of power for lights and so forth.
I designed a simple solar (I think it's about a 20W panel) powered light system for a shed that I built behind the house. If all you need is to keep a few small gel cell type batteries topped off you don't really need much but you just have to mount the panel so it can get some direct sunlight during the day. I used a simple 2x4 side of wall mount to angle it up.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nsaspook/5604332769/in/set-72157626339532305
Sometimes we have to be creative in how we mount panels.
One of my arrays is on a old swing set for another shed on a mount from scrap Unistrut.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7181/6822479210_bd674a6396_o.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7058/6966018283_faf77d214c_o.jpg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nsaspook/5604332769/in/set-72157626339532305
Sometimes we have to be creative in how we mount panels.
One of my arrays is on a old swing set for another shed on a mount from scrap Unistrut.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7181/6822479210_bd674a6396_o.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7058/6966018283_faf77d214c_o.jpg
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Cheers for all the input folks.
Perhaps I'm not saying it right, but the door that faces North is the only place I can put the panels. There is no roof that I can access as there is another floor above my garage, that is not my property (hense why some of the walls are not mine either etc).
In short, I can't be arsed lugging batteries up and down the 150 meter path, to then take up room in the house whilst charging etc etc. I simply want to put some panels on the garage door and have some lights in the garage with the option to charge some small 12v stuff to. (I've given up on the transformer idea given our conversation here).
The purpose is to make my life easier and less 'back and forth' rather than find the cheapest possible solution. My concerns with cost as that a main instal is very costly and I can not take it with me. Whereas a solar instal I can move to my next house, face it southish and have more than I need, but nothing that I bought would be wasted or left behind. Extensions and such are out of the question as they don't achieve the goal of making my life easier, as I'd need to keep rolling them back and forth. Equally, my firing up my geni at 11:30pm for some lights isn't an option (as I'd have no light to get it out and start it up in order to have power for some 240v lights).
I hope you can see my dillema and we can look at offering any ideas on my 'current' questions:
Can I - and How, if I can - have both power for 12v lights (from the battery bank) and a method to charge some 12v batteries from 1 set of panels, 1 cc and 1 battery bank? i.e. without needing to disconect the battery bank and replacing it with the battery I want to charge.
In order to run my 12v lights from a single set up, is it better to run them directly off the battery bank, or from the 'load' terminals on the CC.
If I then want to add more panels, is that possible (I'm 99.99% sure you can, i've just not got that far yet).
Many thanks for all your time and ideas folks, much appreaciated, but please, no more - can you move the pannels because I cant!
Cheers, Upex
Perhaps I'm not saying it right, but the door that faces North is the only place I can put the panels. There is no roof that I can access as there is another floor above my garage, that is not my property (hense why some of the walls are not mine either etc).
In short, I can't be arsed lugging batteries up and down the 150 meter path, to then take up room in the house whilst charging etc etc. I simply want to put some panels on the garage door and have some lights in the garage with the option to charge some small 12v stuff to. (I've given up on the transformer idea given our conversation here).
The purpose is to make my life easier and less 'back and forth' rather than find the cheapest possible solution. My concerns with cost as that a main instal is very costly and I can not take it with me. Whereas a solar instal I can move to my next house, face it southish and have more than I need, but nothing that I bought would be wasted or left behind. Extensions and such are out of the question as they don't achieve the goal of making my life easier, as I'd need to keep rolling them back and forth. Equally, my firing up my geni at 11:30pm for some lights isn't an option (as I'd have no light to get it out and start it up in order to have power for some 240v lights).
I hope you can see my dillema and we can look at offering any ideas on my 'current' questions:
Can I - and How, if I can - have both power for 12v lights (from the battery bank) and a method to charge some 12v batteries from 1 set of panels, 1 cc and 1 battery bank? i.e. without needing to disconect the battery bank and replacing it with the battery I want to charge.
In order to run my 12v lights from a single set up, is it better to run them directly off the battery bank, or from the 'load' terminals on the CC.
If I then want to add more panels, is that possible (I'm 99.99% sure you can, i've just not got that far yet).
Many thanks for all your time and ideas folks, much appreaciated, but please, no more - can you move the pannels because I cant!
Cheers, Upex
We keep plugging away at 'location, location, location' because that's the key to making even a simple system work with solar.
The easy way is to buy a battery selector switch that can direct the CC output to off, 1,2 or 1+2 batteries.
https://www.bluesea.com/products/9001e/e-Series_Selector_Battery_Switch
Battery 1 is the main power battery and 2 would be the connection to recharge other batteries.
I wouldn't use the load connection on the CC. For proper fusing you need a fuse from the CC to the battery or switch to protect that circuit then a fuse directly from the battery to any load center to protect that from shorts with individual fuses for each load.
https://www.bluesea.com/products/8053/6_Position-Slate_Gray
Nsaspook, yeah I get the location thing, and if there were anything I could do to move them, I would, but for the time, I'm stuck due north.
Regards the switch. That's awesome, neat bit of kit. Does the cc power go to the switch which then feeds it out to 1. 2 or both or none? Or (I think more logical) the panels go to the switch, that then has cc 1 and batteries 1, and cc2 and batteries 2 linked to switch a accordingly. Ie switch splits the power before cc, or after cc?
If it splits before the cc, then each battery bank need its own cc, but can I ask, do the 2 cc's need to be the same and do the battery banks also need to be the same, ie number, size, ah etc.
If it splits after the single cc, I guess both battery banks need to be the same (although I think this is the less likely option for switch splitting).
I've not quiet figured out what the second switch thing is, so will have a proper look when off my phone.
One query though, what are the load outputs even for on the cc? Or is it possible to have the 12v lights from these, but better to have them from the battery etc? Just after a better understanding and not sou ting what you say.
Many thanks,
Upex
Regards the switch. That's awesome, neat bit of kit. Does the cc power go to the switch which then feeds it out to 1. 2 or both or none? Or (I think more logical) the panels go to the switch, that then has cc 1 and batteries 1, and cc2 and batteries 2 linked to switch a accordingly. Ie switch splits the power before cc, or after cc?
If it splits before the cc, then each battery bank need its own cc, but can I ask, do the 2 cc's need to be the same and do the battery banks also need to be the same, ie number, size, ah etc.
If it splits after the single cc, I guess both battery banks need to be the same (although I think this is the less likely option for switch splitting).
I've not quiet figured out what the second switch thing is, so will have a proper look when off my phone.
One query though, what are the load outputs even for on the cc? Or is it possible to have the 12v lights from these, but better to have them from the battery etc? Just after a better understanding and not sou ting what you say.
Many thanks,
Upex
Yes, the CC output power goes to the switch which then feeds it out to 1. 2 or both or none.
I used a similar type switch but added a roller switch on the knob that sends a digital signal back to my battery monitor about how the batteries are connected.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4095/4770686388_13a8088416_z.jpg
http://www.perko.com/catalog/category/battery_switches/
Sure you could connect small loads there but I like being able to isolate the CC from battery power and loads with one fuse on a wire rated for the charging current only to protect the controller and then to connect loads directly to the battery with larger wring and fuses sized for higher currents for a reduced voltage drop under heavy surge loads.
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They don't have to be the same unless they are combined with the both setting (they should also be the same SOC when connected together) . The correct way to switch batteries and to reset a simple PWM CC is to have a input solar panel disconnect switch that's turned off first, set the battery switch to off to power down the charge controller to reset it's charge modes and timers, set the battery switch to the battery(s) to be charged and then reconnect the solar panel disconnect to start the charging cycle.
Ok, so if the banks are different then use setting 1 or 2, not both and it's effectively just one CCD and one bank, just much easier to switch between the two banks, I like it.
Would the same sort of switch be added to the solar panel + lead then, but just an off on switch? I'm reading as turn this switch off till power from solar, turn battery switch to off, then to the other bank, then turn solar + cable switch back to on to begin charging.
Is that the right kind of thing? If so, what would the on off switch be called and is it correct t to be on the solar + lead, in between panel and CC?
Thanks for the help, think I'm getting there lol
Would the same sort of switch be added to the solar panel + lead then, but just an off on switch? I'm reading as turn this switch off till power from solar, turn battery switch to off, then to the other bank, then turn solar + cable switch back to on to begin charging.
Is that the right kind of thing? If so, what would the on off switch be called and is it correct t to be on the solar + lead, in between panel and CC?
Thanks for the help, think I'm getting there lol
You could use any DC rated switch that can handle the current and voltage of the panels. That switch would be called the Solar Panel Disconnect and it's usually on the + lead with negative grounded systems. The battery switching sequence works with most MPPT controllers but you have to see the manual to see how it handles a complete power shutdown.
what i have done at my place over the back door (facing east) is made a steel frame up (6 metres high) and mounted the panels there. this is useless to you but i needed to get high enough to clear the roof line (4.6 metres) and allow for 8 panels to be mounted on top at a 30 degrees angle facing north. the reason i mention this, i also use the panels to guard against weather like a shade sail (which i had there previously)
you have a door facing south. is it possible to do something similar to this?
make a frame up and mount the panels on that.
pardon the pun but that should put a little light on your subject
edit: got my planet mixed up, mine are facing north, yours is south, put em in the right place.
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