Maybe that's the whole point.

Personally, I'm a really awful cook. Not because I can't learn, because I don't care. I prefer my salad without dressing and my cheeseburger without cheese. If these guys want to make a full blown engineering challenge out of it, I'll tell them what I know about air movement and temperature differences. It sure makes more sense (to me) than some other Threads, like using the wrong motor, then trying to get the denizens of AAC to engineer a way to stop it from humming.

What do you think the logic should be, since I know nothing, what does it look like and what would be more robust. Op-Amps and 555's with motor driver chips? I was thinking if you tie the auger circuit with a Vacuum to clear the burn area before the auger replenish's chamber. It would just suck up the ashes and deposit them in a small barrel, like a shop Vac system.

kv

 

Dude! I'm a miserable cook and I can't understand why you would need to clear the ashes during one cooking event. Besides, wet&dry vacs specifically instruct not to let it inhale glowing embers.

I think the whole thing starts with a thermostat, but if that's as far as you think, the fuel feeder will be running for a long time before the fire gets the chamber hot. You better start with a flow chart made by a cook.

1) Human starts fire
2) when temperature high, enable auger subroutine
3) when temp low activate auger

That sort of thing.

 

You guy's are overthinking this.

I agree... but that is more or less the way I usually work. I first conceptualize the most perfect and sophisticated of systems, and then I start hacking it down, simplifying things and disassembling it until I find the simplest, most practical and most reliable configuration... and perhaps keep one bell and whistle then and there just for the fun of it.
Trust me, when we're done deciding what we need (instead of what we want) things are going to look much less complicated.

If these guys want to make a full blown engineering challenge out of it, I'll tell them what I know about air movement and temperature differences.

Thanks! I know this is killivolt's thread, but it's also my pet project and your help would be hugely appreciated!

It sure makes more sense (to me) than some other Threads

Thanks for the compliment

 

Dude! I'm a miserable cook and I can't understand why you would need to clear the ashes during one cooking event. Besides, wet&dry vacs specifically instruct not to let it inhale glowing embers.

I think the whole thing starts with a thermostat, but if that's as far as you think, the fuel feeder will be running for a long time before the fire gets the chamber hot. You better start with a flow chart made by a cook.

1) Human starts fire
2) when temperature high, enable auger subroutine
3) when temp low activate auger

That sort of thing.

The Video of Alton Browns cardboard box hotplate with a Cast Iron pan impressed me in it's simplicity. I think your correct, but he removed and replenish at least 6 times, maybe chips would be better and once they burn up they fall through a grate into a catch bin.

kv

Edit: But, I still like an induction burner and pipe with a slit in the top, then blow the pipe out once it's finished burning the sawdust into a catch bin.

Thus, avoiding warranty clause on the shop vac motor.

 

I agree... but that is more or less the way I usually work. I first conceptualize the most perfect and sophisticated of systems, and then I start hacking it down, simplifying things and disassembling it until I find the simplest, most practical and most reliable configuration... and perhaps keep one bell and whistle then and there just for the fun of it.
Trust me, when we're done deciding what we need (instead of what we want) things are going to look much less complicated.


Thanks! I know this is killivolt's thread, but it's also my pet project and your help would be hugely appreciated!


Thanks for the compliment

The first prototype could be made literally out of CardBoard, at least cooking area, all but the smoke box which I fit the pieces of electronics and motor outside any metal box with a door. I have induction cooking pans, I was going to purchase an induction hotplate anyway, I'll test a cast iron pipe on it to see if it will heat up enough to burn sawdust. I'm still thinking to build according to meet your specs with the reverse flow system as you suggested.

What do you think?

kv

Edit: Everything but the induction hotplate can be obtained second hand.

 

Prototype Parts list:

1. Card Board
2. Thermostat from a used oven. (control temp with air shutter on burn box with a solenoid)
3. Bin Motor from a used refrigerator. (previously used to auger the Ice to door dispenser)
4. Klixon Safety Switch, 300˚F shuts it all down.
5. Single Pole Double Throw Relays.

To begin with just use Thermostat to run all in conjunction with the Single Pole Double throw relays.

I'll draw a flow chart and then a schematic, later.

kv

 

I personally disagree with the need to warm up the smoking chamber before putting the meat in.
Hot or cold smoker, the meat absorbs the smoke when the meat is cold much better than when it is cooking.
Just put in your meat. Set your thermostat cut off temp. Run the auger with a simple on off (probably a 555) signal controlled with a pot to time the on interval.
Have the smoke stack sensor override the auger timer if temp is under limit set at thermostat.
Have temp limit exceeded signal operate the flue damper.

 

The Alton Brown video I wanted was a better, more permanent version of the cardboard box. It used a surplus metal ammo box(rifle grenade box IIRC) and an electric skillet in a smaller metal box. As Kermit keeps saying "cold" smoking does it best. There used to be quite a few DIY smoker links but just haven't looked lately.

 

I personally disagree with the need to warm up the smoking chamber before putting the meat in.
Hot or cold smoker, the meat absorbs the smoke when the meat is cold much better than when it is cooking.
Just put in your meat. Set your thermostat cut off temp. Run the auger with a simple on off (probably a 555) signal controlled with a pot to time the on interval.
Have the smoke stack sensor override the auger timer if temp is under limit set at thermostat.
Have temp limit exceeded signal operate the flue damper.

Flowchart first attempt, I don't know how to design a circuit that would work with a 555 if someone could draw up a diagram I can follow I'll put it together and implement it.

kv

Edit: Added a drop out relay.

 

Flowchart first attempt,

I can't work with that. There is no information for temperatures or times. There is no spec for what kind of device you want to measure temperature with.

If you can nail down some temperatures, Klixon makes some stupid sensors that might be sufficient.
Damper motors do exist. Some are hard open/hard closed. Some can be modulated.
The hard limit type can be adjusted with microswitches.

 

I can't work with that. There is no information for temperatures or times. There is no spec for what kind of device you want to measure temperature with.

If you can nail down some temperatures, Klixon makes some stupid sensors that might be sufficient.
Damper motors do exist. Some are hard open/hard closed. Some can be modulated.
The hard limit type can be adjusted with microswitches.

I was actually thinking about that, damper openers and closures. Klixon was something I thought about as well for Temp control, rather than an oven thermostat, I think they come in Double throw which would be simplistic. The one I'm suggesting is for safety only. But, I'm open after thinking about how many times it would switch based on voltage and amperage. With a furnace cycling 110v for emergency shut down, will degrade. But, if the voltage is lower? then it might not be so bad in terms of Thermostatic control design.

Suggestions welcome. Temp as I understand on cold smoke won't exceed 125 to 150, post #47 @Kermit2 is suggesting cold or hot will accumulate, but cold does a better job. @cmartinez is also looking for a result and should way in on this process.

Thank you.

kv

Edit: Oh, by the way. I spelled Thermostat, Thermisat, sorry about that.

 

will degrade.

BS

Klixon switches come in double throw, and I've replaced about 8 in 30 years when all the limit switches in central furnaces and air conditioners were Klixons. @150F you're talking about clothes dryer range. That would be L150-1 right off the top of my head.
How many times you think your clothes dryer cycled in 10 or 20 years?!

 

BS

Klixon switches come in double throw, and I've replaced about 8 in 30 years when all the limit switches in central furnaces and air conditioners were Klixons. @150F you're talking about clothes dryer range. That would be L150-1 right off the top of my head.
How many times you think your clothes dryer cycled in 10 or 20 years?!

Your correct how many times it will click matters even at 110v vs how many times we use it for smoking, a dryer running 5 days a week would be a big deal or furnace 6 to 7 months none stop 24/7, vs once in a while. Controlling the Chamber with a klixon might be optional for the test control circuit.

kv

Edit: I think once this is verifiable with high voltage devices it can convert to low voltage control system.

 

a 555 with close to the right timing to run an auger for feeding sawdust.
R2 and R3 will be pots
The 1 meg is for interval, the 50k is for on duration.
with a 5k to 55k spread I get 2 sec. to 10 sec. for on time.
with 500K min. I get right at 2 min. off, at 1.5 meg it goes up to near 4 min off.

(12 volt motor assumed, but a relay could operate a small ac motor.)

 

Klixons are used in:
the ice makers in home refrigerators, at zero F, 120 VAC
again to terminate the defrost cycle at about 40F,
in clothes dryers at 165F to 210F, 240 VAC
in gas furnaces for fan cycling at 140F and for a high limit, 120VAC
in electric furnaces for electric heat cycling with a meltable link for emergency shut-down, 240 VAC
in heat pumps for the defrost functions, 24VAC
and way over 99% go to the dump, still functioning, when something else wears out.

I'll bet you aren't going to live long enough to wear out a Klixon on a smoker.

 

a 555 with close to the right timing to run an auger for feeding sawdust.
R2 and R3 will be pots
The 1 meg is for interval, the 50k is for on duration.
with a 5k to 55k spread I get 2 sec. to 10 sec. for on time.
with 500K min. I get right at 2 min. off, at 1.5 meg it goes up to near 4 min off.

(12 volt motor assumed, but a relay could operate a small ac motor.)

Good start on low voltage. I wish I could read a .asm file, based on your configuration it's a good start.

Thank you, it may be a circuit design that may end up both Electronic and conventional devices. Like a modern furnace.

Klixons are used in:
the ice makers in home refrigerators, at zero F, 120 VAC
again to terminate the defrost cycle at about 40F,
in clothes dryers at 165F to 210F, 240 VAC
in gas furnaces for fan cycling at 140F and for a high limit, 120VAC
in electric furnaces for electric heat cycling with a meltable link for emergency shut-down, 240 VAC
in heat pumps for the defrost functions, 24VAC
and way over 99% go to the dump, still functioning, when something else wears out.

I'll bet you aren't going to live long enough to wear out a Klixon on a smoker.

Yes, now if I can get the circuit down, it may start to form a little, for a small price we can create a prototype. Which I need to watch my dollars and my time.

Later extrapolate.

kv

 

Google up LTspice.
Download the FREE program.
Install.
Open .asm files

Your gonna want it eventually anyway because most of us here have and use it to illustrate function or purpose built ideas like this.

 

Google up LTspice.
Download the FREE program.
Install.
Open .asm files

Your gonna want it eventually anyway because most of us here have and use it to illustrate function or purpose built ideas like this.

I have it. Although sadly I haven't much time over the last 4 years to use it again.

I did want to design a circuit to fine tune, I do realize some values do not operate the same in the real world but, it would illustrate a low voltage design as a complete circuit.

I also thought the devices needed would be designed and ready to model, like the 555's ect.

Thank you.

This is for anyone else who would like to see the circuit.



kv

 

I apologize for my ghetto "motor" circuit.

It looks kinda close in some simulation but does NOT represent a true circuit equivalent of a motor.

Get longer duration startup current spikes by adding resistance in capacitor path. Get higher current by increasing capacitance.

 

I apologize for my ghetto "motor" circuit.

It looks kinda close in some simulation but does NOT represent a true circuit equivalent of a motor.

I can dev board it, I think I have just the right relay to run it. I put together a light circuit around 8 years ago and still have the box transformer etc.

A smaller relay triggers the bigger one, runs off 5v so, I may be able to directly input from the 555.

http://rs993.pbsrc.com/albums/af59/killivolt/box 2_zpsnybskfd7.jpg~c100

Image is to small, let me know if you can't see the URL.

kv