Need help on wire diagram

Wire diagram

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Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
4,737
Welcome to AAC.

I suspect it's wired something like this: (below)

Before assuming this is correct you should check continuity. Check for continuity between Power IN Line and Power IN Neutral. If there is continuity between those two points then DON'T use this diagram. If there is no continuity then check between Power IN Neutral and Neutral Out. If I'm right - there SHOULD be continuity between those two points. Once that's verified then in all likelihood the three remaining wires are connected to one or another of the Out's. Actuating the switch will determine which one comes on first - after you find no contact between Power IN Line and all other outs (not Neutral Out), we've established where it is connected. The first turn or click or whatever actuates the switch will be your first output. The second click will be the second output and the third - you know by now. When checking the outputs always use your meter on ohms (beep if you have that feature) and check between Line and any of the three Out's. At no time should one of the outs be common to any of the other outs. Again, this is assuming my diagram is correct. If you need a schematic drawing I can provide one. Will have to draw it - but that's not a problem.

1592228754659.png
 
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Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
4,737
The link needs to be in the motor. If you put one on the HIGH then the fan can still try to run on medium or low. The sole purpose of the fusible link is to prevent fire. I've had fan bushings get so dirty that the motor would not spin. That resulted in high temperatures which blew the link and shut down the current flow. The link has to be common to all circuits and inside the motor, though not quite drawn that way.
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
4,737
@shortbus I'm assuming the power cord is polarized. It's possible that I have line and neutral reversed. As I stated early on - the best I can do is guess at what the actual wiring of the switch is. The switch COULD be controlling High, Medium and Low to Neutral. That would put the fusible link on the Line (hot) side.
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
4,737
I've seen thermal protection before. The ones I've seen have been rectangular whereas the ones I most commonly see in motors such as fans looks more like a diode. A lead, a metal body, a glass seal with another lead coming out of the end. Inside is the thermally sensitive conductor. Exceed its rating and it melts. The rectangular devices I've seen (I assume) are bi-metallic strips that can reset themselves after they cool down.
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
4,737
I may be using the wrong name, but I've known these to be fusible links; though the description calls them "Hilitchi 85-Pcs 10A 250V Circuit Cut Off Temperature Thermal Cutoffs Fuse Assortment Kit - 100℃ to 280℃". These are the very things I've seen blown in fans that have failed In fact, it was my Mother-In-Law's washing machine "mode shift coil" that failed due to one of these burning out prematurely. The design in THAT instance was to blow at 104% of normal operation. Leaving almost no room for stress. The coil was pristine. Only the fusible link had blown. Cost me $1.98 plus tax at RadioShack to fix her washer, whereas the repairman wanted almost $400 for the repair.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
6,359
The failure that I have observed in tower fans is failed conductors in the portion of the cord that flexes as the fan oscillates back and forth. That can be verified by checking for continuity between the pins of the mains plug and the other ends of the power cord at the switching end. Also, some of the fans also have a capacitor in the circuit, and that may possibly fail.
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
4,737
While the mention of fan motor failure has come up - it isn't what the TS is seeking. I drew what I believe to be the switch diagram based on past experiences. Wherever a fusible link may be - or whether this switch has come from a failed fan - none of that matters. The topic of this thread has been help with a wiring diagram.

We haven't heard from the TS since post #1, so I'm assuming his question has been answered and he has no further interest in pursuing this thread. Either the question has been answered or he is unaware he's gotten any answers. Whatever.

Oh, and the fans I'm most commonly referring to are box fans (window fans). But have seen fusible links elsewhere as in post #10.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
6,359
While the mention of fan motor failure has come up - it isn't what the TS is seeking. I drew what I believe to be the switch diagram based on past experiences. Wherever a fusible link may be - or whether this switch has come from a failed fan - none of that matters. The topic of this thread has been help with a wiring diagram.

We haven't heard from the TS since post #1, so I'm assuming his question has been answered and he has no further interest in pursuing this thread. Either the question has been answered or he is unaware he's gotten any answers. Whatever.

Oh, and the fans I'm most commonly referring to are box fans (window fans). But have seen fusible links elsewhere as in post #10.
They put those thermal fuses in any device that has the reasonable possibility of overheating and being a fire hazard. The better quality devices have better insulation on the wires and adequate iron and copper in the transformers and other magnetics. While some may defend using them, O hold that they are a substitute for adequate quality. Consider that a motor or transformer with such a devcie embedded in the windings is considered non-reparable, and that replacement transformers and motors are seldom available as repair parts. So one time overheat and your stereo box is scrap. But never before the warranty runs out. The concept being it is not worth repairing.
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
4,737
@MisterBill2 in the case of my MIL's washing machine, she was ready to replace it. The machine was still quiet new; probably just out of warranty when the mode shift coil went dead. Overheated. Or more accurately, the fusible link blew. Service techs said they had to replace the entire mechanical unit at a cost of $333 to $400 US. Mom said she'd just get a new one. I said wait - let me mess with it.

The OBD said it was a bad Mode Shift Coil. So I unplugged the MSC and sure enough - it was open. It was held in place via two bolts, so it was easily removed. When bench tested, it was still dead. So I drilled out the rivets and opened the casing. The inside was pristine. No indications of heat anywhere. No nacrid smell. So I checked the FL (fusible link). Found the open. Looked up the specs on line and it turned out the rating for that FL was 104% of normal duty. Meaning it had no chance of surviving for long. I went to Radio Shack and bought a new FL for $1.98 plus tax (US) and crimped it in. Then put new rivets in the housing and reinstalled it. That was a good seven years ago and the machine is still functioning flawlessly. The FL I chose was one that came to a rating of 140% normal duty. So it was going to last. Yet, if there were an overheat condition - it would blow at 120˚C (248˚F). Though they're generally not user serviceable, someone who has even a minor level of talent can repair such a blown link.

In the case of fan motors, they're often buried, and replacing them is next to impossible. Given the cost of a new fan - why would anyone want to do all that work just to repair a fan that can be replaced for around 20 to 40 bucks? But a washing machine that costs over $500 (US), a $2 repair - - - priceless. Well, nearly priceless.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
6,359
@MisterBill2 in the case of my MIL's washing machine, she was ready to replace it. The machine was still quiet new; probably just out of warranty when the mode shift coil went dead. Overheated. Or more accurately, the fusible link blew. Service techs said they had to replace the entire mechanical unit at a cost of $333 to $400 US. Mom said she'd just get a new one. I said wait - let me mess with it.

The OBD said it was a bad Mode Shift Coil. So I unplugged the MSC and sure enough - it was open. It was held in place via two bolts, so it was easily removed. When bench tested, it was still dead. So I drilled out the rivets and opened the casing. The inside was pristine. No indications of heat anywhere. No nacrid smell. So I checked the FL (fusible link). Found the open. Looked up the specs on line and it turned out the rating for that FL was 104% of normal duty. Meaning it had no chance of surviving for long. I went to Radio Shack and bought a new FL for $1.98 plus tax (US) and crimped it in. Then put new rivets in the housing and reinstalled it. That was a good seven years ago and the machine is still functioning flawlessly. The FL I chose was one that came to a rating of 140% normal duty. So it was going to last. Yet, if there were an overheat condition - it would blow at 120˚C (248˚F). Though they're generally not user serviceable, someone who has even a minor level of talent can repair such a blown link.

In the case of fan motors, they're often buried, and replacing them is next to impossible. Given the cost of a new fan - why would anyone want to do all that work just to repair a fan that can be replaced for around 20 to 40 bucks? But a washing machine that costs over $500 (US), a $2 repair - - - priceless. Well, nearly priceless.
I have bypassed those thermal fuses on transformers and never had a failure afterwards. Often the device is burried just below the surface and the device leads are obvious and different from winding leads. In the case of the washer machine, since the case was riveted shut, it is clear that it was not intended to be repaired. And the service tech persons were either lazy, stupid, or dishonest, or a combination of those. So it seems that perhaps those "Factory Trained" service people may have been trained in a candy factory. I can tell about a fix on a computerized washer machine, where the service guy quoted a new computer board for about $450 installed. My reputation got me called in for a second opinion. I read the service instruction sheet, did a front-panel service reset, unplugged it for 5 minutes, plugged it back in and it worked just fine. 3 years since and still just fine. The charge for my 15 minute service call was outdone by my tip for the service call.
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
4,737
I have bypassed those thermal fuses on transformers and never had a failure afterwards.
Those links are primarily there because of UL and other safety organizations that mandate them to make the consumer experience a safe one. I, too, have bypassed them with no harm. However, when you consider that a box fan (I know, I keep going back to that), when the bushings bind up and the fan sits there in the window with lace curtains and heavier fabric curtains - house fires are highly likely. That's the main reason for their existence.
And the service tech persons were either lazy, stupid, or dishonest, or a combination of those.
I called GE and tried to get them to sell me the coil. They refused. Said I could buy the entire mechanical assembly (MSC included) for $135.00 (US). First, I didn't want to spend that much money just for a coil. Second, I didn't want to do all that work just changing the mechanics. I know I could have just swapped the MSC for the new one and NOT do all that work, but why spend all that money for a coil, who's sole job was to slide a locking collar over a spline to switch from agitate to spin? For the time and effort as well as the capital investment, a new machine would have been a far easier choice. More expensive, but easy.

Now, as I said, this coil was bolted on with only two 1/4" bolts. It was located at the bottom of the machine so nothing else had to be removed to replace the coil. So it was an easy off. Since it was my MIL's machine, if she was going to get a new machine then I'd have a new toy to play with. Turned out that opening the coil was easy enough, though I doubt a service tech would be so inclined to do so; either out of laziness or lack of mechanical aptitude. A SMART (and dishonest) tech would have gotten the entire mechanism, removed the coil and swapped in the good one. A job that would have taken all of five minutes, if even that long. Then charge the full price for the new mechanism, which he would now be in possession of, and having only changed the coil. Very quick and very easy buck!
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
6,359
There are many individuals who lack the skill to repair ANYTHING. They would have been clueless about drilling out rivets. They never taught that in engineering school. Actually, they never taught much about diagnostics, either. And it was our "History of Western Civilization" professor who spoke about unintended secondary results of actions. So a fair amount must be self taught or learned.
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
4,737
I learned a lot from my father. Wish he were here today. Been gone since 1995. Also learned to SEE how things work. First major lesson was when he bought a new gas lawn mower. I just HAD to know what was inside that machine that made it work. So I took it apart. I was seven years old. Learned three things that day: How a reciprocating four stroke engine worked, that they were filled with oil, and torque. More precisely, what happens when you over tighten a bolt threaded into aluminum.

He wasn't happy with me, but rather than scold me and send me away he took the time to explain what each part was, crank, connecting rod, piston, cam, lifters, valves, carburetor, points, magneto and spark plug. I could envision the exact motion of things going on. Mostly what I learned from him was how to learn. How to figure things out. Things I've never seen before, how to figure out what's going on. Seven years later I built a supercharger for my mini-bike. The engine ran. We swore it was faster, but it probably wasn't. Maybe a little more acceleration, but those Briggs N Scrapiron motors were good for about 3500 RPM at the most. With gearing the bike would go close to 40 MPH.

Mom taught me the other side of life - how to be loving and compassionate. What it was to have friends and how to treat them. My wife says my mother did a good job. I didn't say that - I said that's what my wife says. I'm fortunate to have had good parents. So many people I've known haven't had it as good as I did. Some had outright arse holes for parents. Some never even knew their biological parents. So I know how lucky I am to have had them.
 
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