I was actually first who pulled-in the HHO machinery in my land. Simply I was about 1982 in the Kiiv in the business trip so I seen an invitation to go for free soviet science advances exhibition at Paton welding institute and my eyes sticked to HHO torch. Probably because I felt soon my old properly rusted car must have undergo the fundamental welding jobs. So, next year I managed my institute must buy one. Actually it bought a two, one normal size, and another for micro-welding. Later I studied their ideas and electrical parameters, hopefully I may tell it short.

So, between two plates MUST be MORE than 2 Volts, however it may grow up to 3,5V but it means higher losses and warming. If to put plates in series, even without of contact between em, voltage multiplicates and may easily be near to 220V. Plates must be made of AISI-316, 318, and only short-sighted people made it of AISI-306, but 304 is garbage. All other materials as well.

Plate MAY be rolled then You get a larger area, area load must be not over 10 A/dm2 but nothing wrong if 2 A/dm2. So, the cell-welded plastic green garden hence may be brilliant insulator and gap keeper between plates.
It is hardly forbidden to KEEP any gas in any volume, thus the all gas filled corners MUST be filled by electrolyte immediately (S-form pipe).

The electrolyte - best ever made is human urine but damn smelly. K, Na and Li salts gives out the bad chlorine powder dirt, especially Na. May be used the acids, H2SO4, HNO3, HCl, H3PO4, COOH etc but results are even poorer than alkali.

So, if the multi-plate mechanics (how to keep, how to hermetize) is rather tricky, then monoplate-pair cell is simplistic, just canalization pipe, canalization end-covers. Only watch it must be PP or PE but not PVC which is alkali-afraid.

So, put the sandwich hence plastic-aisi306-hence plastic-Asisi-306 and wound it around anything let the outer end is passing to encapsulate into your canalization pipe.

Feed by PC ATX 5V making the loop controlling the current for TL494. In car case I suspect the most appropriate way to get correct multihundred Amps and few volts down-converter will be most wonderful ever made masterpiece of tablets named hip6301 plus hip6101. One is multiphase oscillator with adjustable phase count, and other is very safe gate driver for about 100 A per phase.

 

Yet You MUST know, indeed little part of HHO indeed alters the burning efficiency in the strok, thus the gasoline consumption decreases by some 3...5 or maximum maximorum 10 % but never more. Yet the price for it is far higher temperature in cylinders (i.e. lifetyme of valves and gaskets drastically fall down) and what EPA will rate - the nitric oxides sum will be tens or even hundreds of times higher than normal driving. Plus, what will tell the insurance, that Your account will feel immediately, and probably the CSDD (or how You call Your automobile directorate) may push You a traffic ban at nearest yearly technical examination. However guessing that Your car is enormously old and cheap, just a rust mountain other-how why to risk) say 1000 USD, then driving so damn much like 20 000 km annually You shall economy 10%*5 litre per 100 km*1.40 $ per litre* 20 000/100 hundreds of km=1400 $ per year. If the car life will decrease to just 2 years (oh, never so short), the win will be 3K$ or rather not bad. However I believe You Americans have bit another economics, Your gasoline is hard cheaper as I gave figure from today at me and cars are much cheaper as well. Then the win will be much smaller.

 

building hydrogen gen for my old pick up need a curcuit that will only turn on with manual switch but shut down with ignition.

Really, what we need is a description of what the condition is when you want to switch this thing on. Is the ignition switch in the off, run, or start position? That matters a lot. Is this for an attempt to create hydrogen as a fuel for the engine? Are you hoping to create enough hydrogen and oxygen to run the engine? Or is the hydrogen generator for some other purpose.
I am asking this because it takes more power than the engine can produce to electolyze enough water to produce enough hydrogen to run the engine. All claims of anything else are lies. So save yourself a lot of work and know that it does not work that way.

 

If you had really cheap electricity then you could produce H2 and store it in pressure tanks. As H2 has low octane rating you would want to add water injection & there you would want to be sure to turn it off when engine was not running.

 

He said he has an old pickup. He did not say it is a truck (Lorry?) so I think it might be a blimp and the hydrogen lifts it.

 

He said he has an old pickup. He did not say it is a truck (Lorry?) so I think it might be a blimp and the hydrogen lifts it.

Well, you can certanly use a blimp to "pick up" things

 

If you had really cheap electricity then you could produce H2 and store it in pressure tanks. As H2 has low octane rating you would want to add water injection & there you would want to be sure to turn it off when engine was not running.

Storing the hydrogen in tanks requires a compressor, and a system to remove the water vapor prior to compressing. And that takes space and power. You can NOT "MacGyver" the numbers and make it work.
But now consider the volume of hydrogen needed to run an engine of 200 CI displacement. That is 100 cubic inches per revolution for a 4-stroke engine. At a 20:1 air/fuel ratio that is 5 cubic inches per revolution. So at 1000RPM that is 5,000 cubic inches per minute. How big a hydrogen gas generator will that take?
My point is that while it could be done it is far from practical in the real world.

 

RE: ""then you could produce H2 and store it in pressure tanks""
When Moderators indeed ought to react, they seems be deep sleeping.
NOTHING on this Planet is so dangerous as to keep pressurized HHO (Brown) gas in any kind of bottle.
That is blamefully suicidal technology.
More, whole idea to produce the enough HHO to blow the engine is as well suicidal, as well the fools-crap-game aka scientific fraud theory. Someone must stop it at last.

 

RE: ""then you could produce H2 and store it in pressure tanks""
When Moderators indeed ought to react, they seems be deep sleeping.
NOTHING on this Planet is so dangerous as to keep pressurized HHO (Brown) gas in any kind of bottle.
That is blamefully suicidal technology.
More, whole idea to produce the enough HHO to blow the engine is as well suicidal, as well the fools-crap-game aka scientific fraud theory. Someone must stop it at last.

Wait a minute!! The TS commented about HYDROGEN, not that explosive mixture. Those are quite different, and it is not likely that the HHO gas could even be pressurized without reacting.
So PLEASE spare us the panic! I have already pointed out that the whole concept is rather defective and impractical. Just because a basic theory is correct does not mean that it is practical. The reality is that the energy in the gas mix produced by electrical breaking down water can never be as much as that needed to produce the gas because of the large portion lost as heat. So like all other free-energy scams it will always fail.
And acetylene is a more explosive gas routinely handled quite safely, so safe handling is certainly possible, just not simple.

 

Wait a minute!! The TS commented about HYDROGEN, not that explosive mixture. Those are quite different, and it is not likely that the HHO gas could even be pressurized without reacting.

Check this paper: http://conference.ing.unipi.it/ichs2005/Papers/120001.pdf

A spark was needed. Article doesn't mention other potential catalysts, like light. H2 +Cl2 is an example of the latter.

Acetylene is a different story.

 

Yet I know absolutely sure that rather eminent our local hydrogen technologies research-lab professor in more than very respectable institute what was my young age first workplace for me, made a trial about average age Toyota Prius taken off the streets, injecting about 100W away from alternator to produce the Brown gas to mix it in the fuel and then he made a controlled force fuel consumption (FC) test on the el-mag-dynamometric stand and result was that for brand new Toyottas took about 3% less FC and for older Toyotas even 5% less. Thus it is well proven that Brown gas micro-additive improves the burning quality and decrease the FC. Anyway 3...5% is not so small economy.

 

As H2 has low octane rating you would want to add water injection & there you would want to be sure to turn it off when engine was

Not really. Most hydrogen fueled engines are converted from diesel engines to take advantage of the higher compression. Hydrogen has an Octane rating of ~130 much higher than most fuels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

 

At a 20:1 air/fuel ratio

Wrong again. The stoichiometric air/fuel ratio for hydrogen is 34:1. From - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_internal_combustion_engine_vehicle

 

Acetylene is a different story.

I'm still waiting on a link from mrbill. He claims acetylene is explosive just by containing it in an open cup, from the atmospheric pressure on it.

 

Mods not asleep, just like to enjoy a good read once in awhile.
TS has only one post to his name and has not responded after 33 comments.
Me thinks you're wasting good needed bandwidth fellas.

 

HHO is the water of forum life. Any discussion in which it is mentioned has a life of its own and often mutates to be more deadly than COVID-19.

 

Anyone with any experience in the storage of pressurized Hydrogen can tell you it is "problematic" at best. Almost any leak of pressurized Hydrogen results in a fire. The energy released by the rapid expansion is sufficient to ignite it when combined with atmospheric Oxygen. The energy induced into a H2 O2 mix by compressing it... BOOM!!!

 

RE: MrChips: Yepppssssk sir!

 

I'm still waiting on a link from mrbill. He claims acetylene is explosive just by containing it in an open cup, from the atmospheric pressure on it.

No link needed! I saw the experiment done! An 8 ounce paper cup filled from a welder's torch, sitting on a workbench in the shop. A piece of plain paper about 4 inches long, folded so that it could hang over the edge of the cup. Lit with a lighter and then we stood back. Bang!, and the cup was burst. You are welcome to duplicate the experiment. But it must be inside, and the cup must be full, and there should not be any fans blowing. This experiment was done prior to the internet, and with no electronic camera available.
AND not everything that you see on youtube is valid.

 

No link needed! I saw the experiment done! An 8 ounce paper cup filled from a welder's torch, sitting on a workbench in the shop. A piece of plain paper about 4 inches long, folded so that it could hang over the edge of the cup. Lit with a lighter and then we stood back.

That was not your claim in the other thread. Your claim was a spontaneous explosion of the acetylene in a cup. No mention of fire or spark or any other source of ignition. That is why I called you out, We use to put oxy/acet from a torch into a balloon and put it in a paper bag and light the bag to do the same thing.