Movement Sensor Monitoring using Conductive Paint

Thread Starter

seandc

Joined Apr 5, 2020
8
Hi all, this is my very first thread.
I would be grateful of any advise.
I am currently looking for a solution for a sensor that can detect when In the case When Fixed Point A (Sensor) detects When Point B has moved. I would like the sensor to be capable of Transmitting each time this happens to a software 2 miles away. There will be over 1000 points that will require a sensor. My hope is that I could use conductive ink to do this ie if the paint cracks it will signal as a broken point?
 

Thread Starter

seandc

Joined Apr 5, 2020
8
What distances between Points A & B? Will all of the B points be fixed (stationary)?

Ron
Hi Ron
Thank you for your help.
The idea is that I need to be able to monitor when an essential Part comes loose. So to answer your Question Point A will be Permanently fixed and be capable of monitoring and Transmitting Point B which has potential to move. Points A and B can vary but ideally No more than 20mm. As long as the sensor can detect the movement and wirelessly transmit that signal the distance between A and B can vary?
 

Reloadron

Joined Jan 15, 2015
5,361
Trying to think of how to keep this inexpensive and you need to consider any laws regarding transmission of a signal over 2 miles. I assume US because you mention "miles". Conductive paint might be an inexpensive option but you still mention 1000 pieces which is a heck of a lot. Even in a matrix that is 100 X 10 (Rows and Columns). If you are not familiar with a Matrix give this a read. You would be substituting the conductive strips for the buttons and have to invert. Not an easy or inexpensive project. I would start by experimenting with a small matrix and paint and see if the concept can even work or is practical.

Ron
 

Thread Starter

seandc

Joined Apr 5, 2020
8
Hi Ron.

I have attached a rough sketch of what I'm trying to achieve, I'm sorry its rough I'm not at all Electronics minded. I appreciate your help!
 

Thread Starter

seandc

Joined Apr 5, 2020
8
I am hoping that I can find a solution to being able to monitor and Signal a break in a line of conductive Paint, each device /monitoring sensor can be given a unique address and signal either directly to a central workstation or via a transceiver capable of receiving the signal from a max no of devices/Monitoring sensors that will then transmit signal to central workstation.20200406_115850.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ericgibbs

Joined Jan 29, 2010
9,827
hi sean,
Is this seismic application.?
If you could explain the purpose, we may be able to suggest alternative solutions.
E
 

Thread Starter

seandc

Joined Apr 5, 2020
8
hi sean,
Is this seismic application.?
If you could explain the purpose, we may be able to suggest alternative solutions.
E
Hi Eric
I am looking for a solution and most effective method of being able to Sensor and signal when a part moves from it's intended permanent spot. So If we say that Point A is unmoveable and ideally the point where the sensor or monitoring device will be located. Point B is the point that we need to monitor and immediately signal if if moves even a tiny distance away from Point A as both are supposed to be fixed together however Point A can never move. I need to be able to monitor potentially 100's of these potention point B,s and wirelessly transmit a signal over a mile away to a central workstation and software that can action accordingly depending on how important that joint is when moved. I hoped it might be possible to use inductive ink and signal when the link of ink breaks?
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
4,383
if moves even a tiny distance
Define "Tiny". Do you mean a 64th of an inch? 0.01 mm? 5 microns? Tiny can mean lots of things.
Here's what I mean when I say a break can occur but still remain in contact: In the picture below is a panel with points A & B (as per your specifications). I've chosen a linear break. However, with something like a wall, it can break but still maintain a contact as indicated by the jagged edge between A & B that is still in contact with each other.
1586176572982.png
 
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ericgibbs

Joined Jan 29, 2010
9,827
hi,
So if we call Point 'A' the reference point and there are a number of other point say 'B', 'C' ... etc.
If any of these point move away from Point 'A' , you want an indication that they have moved.??
What is the spacing between these points and are the points on the same plane and in a single line.

Please say what you are trying to do.? :)
E
 

Thread Starter

seandc

Joined Apr 5, 2020
8
hi,
So if we call Point 'A' the reference point and there are a number of other point say 'B', 'C' ... etc.
If any of these point move away from Point 'A' , you want an indication that they have moved.??
What is the spacing between these points and are the points on the same plane and in a single line.

Please say what you are trying to do.? :)
E
There are several fixings (potentially hundreds) on a machine that if they become loose when tightened can cause serious damage to the machine so I need to find a solution were I can individual monitor wirelessly each point. Each potential loose joint needs to have it's own address so it can be considered either essential or non essential and each be given programmed actions ie, Joint 1 when loose may be considered a Vital Point and therefore action an immediate shut down but Joint 36 may not be considered high priority and may just require an alert to the central workstation. Would it be possible to use Conductive ink to do this?
 

ericgibbs

Joined Jan 29, 2010
9,827
hi sean,
One can visualise there could be vibration of the machine also changes in temperature of the joints and possible drying out effects of the conductive ink bridges.
Conductive ink 'bridging' tightened joints in the machine sounds a recipe for failure.
E
 

Thread Starter

seandc

Joined Apr 5, 2020
8
hi sean,
One can visualise there could be vibration of the machine also changes in temperature of the joints and possible drying out effects of the conductive ink bridges.
Conductive ink 'bridging' tightened joints in the machine sounds a recipe for failure.
E
I appreciate your time on this I really do, could you recommend a good, reliable solution please?
 

LesJones

Joined Jan 8, 2017
2,605
As you SEEM to be talking about nuts and bolts if they are critical then why not use castle nuts that are wired or with split pins. As this sounds like some type of machine it seems likely it is made from metal and the nuts and bolts are metal. As metals are conductive a break in the conductive ink would NOT break the electrical path between the two points. If your mystery device was made from an insulating material it might work. I seem to remember a system using optical fiber to detect breaks or movement. That would be simple if you just wanted a warning the there was a break at any point on the fiber path but as you want the address of each individual potential break detected it would become very complex.

Les.
 

Thread Starter

seandc

Joined Apr 5, 2020
8
Eric
Can is there such a thing as a Conductive Strip, 'tear tape' or similar that could be used as an alternative. I was thinking about how a magnetic door sensor for a wireless intruder alarm works. So the idea of introducing a magnet onto Point B and fixing a permanent Sensor to Point A that is in very close contact with Point B, so if Point B moves away from the sensor it will trigger that signal?
 
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