mass productions or producing on a large scale ?

maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
2) Who is going to pay for the doctors with the extra patient load? The governments, both state and federal are broke.

3) Quality of care will go down, as doctors will be paid less by necessity, and time with patients, which has shown to be a very important aspect of healing (individual care with same primary doctor) would vanish. Patients would be routed in, slapped with a diagnosis and sent out the door, they may not see the same doctor again for years, if at all.

4) Finally, this doesn't address psychiatric care, dental care, nor optometry. All of which have a much higher per patient cost than a general practitioner doctor.
We have more then enough money in this country to pay for everyones health care and then some. The problem is after WWII we basicallyl systematically quit paying taxes. So our great grandparents that were rich paid up to 90% taxes. Now the rich pay way way less then the middle class. Just plugging the tax loopholes could pay for healthcare alone. I would include dental, vision, and everything else in my universal healthcare system. I run my healthcare like a daytime hooker! No one gets turned away! Even if she don't look so good in the light.... I know many people are worried about their care level going down. But when you have no health care at all. Thats not really a worry. Then figure thats the majority of the US population. We need taxes to step in and provide some sort of care. Reguardless of how you feel about politics its just not right to let someone die because of lack of money.
 

loosewire

Joined Apr 25, 2008
1,686
People have illness that doctors don't have a clue,they check your vitals

and order blood test,if you are lucky about the blood work. Try this and I

see you in 90 days. The doctors will not give you an opinion,that would

make them wrong.People suffer for years without knowing whats wrong

with them.A lot of gas and stomach irritation, bowels movement. Every

one has to follow doctors directions,which is not much see me in 90 days.
 

justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
439
I did not want to comment on this anymore but the generalizations are getting to me...

Drug addiction is a complex issue. Drug addicts who end up on the street are often people with very difficult background (child abuse, children of alcoholics, ect). Many have underlying medical issues, undiagnosed bipolar is very common where drugs become a way of unknowingly self medicating yourself. There are drug addicts with different bacground, but those usually live in expensive condos.

Becoming homeless is easy: I have epilepsy. Currently it is under control with the help of my meds. Lets assume I live in the states and have a job. My job provides medical that pays for my meds. 1 months supply costs over $700. But the meds stop working (this happened to me before) and seizures come back. I cannot work anymore and I lose my work incl insurance. Now I cannot even afford my meds. and thus the cycle begins. Before I get on disability (how long would that take?), I have to survive... Now think about the number of people in similar situation. Would I be abusing the system?

I do not like charity, charity is something rich people do to make themselves feel superior. They do not admit it, but it is true. You want to help someone out, help them and see it through.
 

justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
439
Define-primary care doctor,what should you expect a primary doctor

do for you,or what do you expect that he should be able to treat or advice

on. In other words what medical education should he have.
I expect them to make housecalls. To stop pushing through medications. To practice preventative medicine, the basic kind - eat right and exercise. To look at their patient as a whole and not just a bunch of parts. As an example, if I have exema, do not just give me cream, check out if there are other underlying issues...
 

maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
Becoming homeless is easy: I have epilepsy. Currently it is under control with the help of my meds. Lets assume I live in the states and have a job. My job provides medical that pays for my meds. 1 months supply costs over $700. But the meds stop working (this happened to me before) and seizures come back. I cannot work anymore and I lose my work incl insurance. Now I cannot even afford my meds. and thus the cycle begins. Before I get on disability (how long would that take?), I have to survive... Now think about the number of people in similar situation. Would I be abusing the system?
I'm in a similar situation. I require about $700 in medical bills each month or else I can't work because of pain and I start to get severe PVC's because of stress. I've had insurance for 6 month when this first started happening but they said the checkbox's didn't match up to my symtoms so I couldn't even see a cardiologist. The whole thing was a joke. I would get anywhere from 1 to 300 pvc's in a day depending on my stress level
 

justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
439
I'm in a similar situation. I require about $700 in medical bills each month or else I can't work because of pain and I start to get severe PVC's because of stress. I've had insurance for 6 month when this first started happening but they said the checkbox's didn't match up to my symtoms so I couldn't even see a cardiologist. The whole thing was a joke. I would get anywhere from 1 to 300 pvc's in a day depending on my stress level
I've had some close calls and have learned that stress greatly affects health. It is impossible to avoid stressful situations, but learning to relax has helped me a lot (that does not necessarily mean doing yoga, I end up listening to music).
 

thatoneguy

Joined Feb 19, 2009
6,359
I'm in a similar situation. I require about $700 in medical bills each month or else I can't work because of pain and I start to get severe PVC's because of stress. I've had insurance for 6 month when this first started happening but they said the checkbox's didn't match up to my symtoms so I couldn't even see a cardiologist. The whole thing was a joke. I would get anywhere from 1 to 300 pvc's in a day depending on my stress level
Apply for disability. You have a good shot at it if you are kept from work due to your condition more than you are able to work.

For the addicts and alcoholics that are homeless, there's not much to do, I know the addictions are again only symptoms of the underlying issue, but as I agreed before and will state again, help for them is lacking. There need to be psychologists and psychiatrists to spend a bit of time with them to get the situation in something resembling control, and work up from there. There isn't a magic wand to wave, and the government enacted the zero tolerance policy for assistance, pretty much tying a lot of hands. Here, if there are homeless in the winter, the police bring them to mental evaluations for free, after which they can live for free in a halfway house. We don't have a homeless problem like more "climate friendly" areas do. I'm not painting with a broad brush, I'm simply ignorant of the specifics of details in each town, and am relating what interactions I've had with the various systems here, both as a person in need, and as a person repaying the life they saved.

For people who think people that give to charity do so just to make them feel better, you may be right in some cases. Not in mine. I give to charity because there was a time in my life, as I stated, when I was down and out, homeless and hungry. I found services that helped me get patched up enough to go back to work. Once working, I had a purpose in life, and everything started working up. So, for over 25 years, I've given back, both time and cash, to charities, because I know how close to suicide one can become when everything they felt was permanent vanished before their eyes. It's not to make me feel better, it's to enable others to let more people know that there are ways out, as I've pointed out in this thread.

After a severe life changing event, such as cancer, loss of loved one(s), or loss of job, and house, all at once, the mind doesn't focus well. Layoffs should include counseling, and at least some job to work at. Feeling like you are a useful part of society by doing a job is great for both physical and mental health. Granted, the pay sucks, but all charities will let you work and still "lean on them" as needed.
 

justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
439
disability... real life example: after an injury the person could work part time, but if he chose to work part time, he would not get the same amount of disability pay as compared to not working at all because of the way the calculations are made (I do not remember the details, but it is true). Of course working part time he does not earn enough to make living wage. How does that work - government is willing to pay more to someone for not working (of course he does have legitimate reasons) when in fact the person wants to work? Why would they not just supplement his income? Talk about your dignity being stripped away. This is going off topic, but as someone who was very close to having to go that route, unless you were truly born with severe problems, you will want to keep supporting yourself on your own.
 

thatoneguy

Joined Feb 19, 2009
6,359
disability... real life example: after an injury the person could work part time, but if he chose to work part time, he would not get the same amount of disability pay as compared to not working at all because of the way the calculations are made (I do not remember the details, but it is true). Of course working part time he does not earn enough to make living wage. How does that work - government is willing to pay more to someone for not working (of course he does have legitimate reasons) when in fact the person wants to work? Why would they not just supplement his income? Talk about your dignity being stripped away. This is going off topic, but as someone who was very close to having to go that route, unless you were truly born with severe problems, you will want to keep supporting yourself on your own.
Yes, the disability system is messed up. It seems singularly designed to force somebody more dependent on the government. Make $300 a month, you get a $400/month cut in payments, even though that $300 was pre-tax, so you lose $200 by working. Make $600 for 2 months in a row, and you are up for review.

It's better not to have a job at all, than to try to earn money. It has been proven that people need tasks to thrive, jobs, so volunteering can fill that gap rather than sitting at home. Some of the volunteer work can simply be finding others who are down andout, and helping them into the system.

I do not agree with the way the government makes nice little pigeon holes for everything, as that forces the rest of us to speak in terms of those pigeon holes. That has caused Bill Mardsen to think I have some sort of chip on my shoulder against people having major problems. I do not.

The problem with the homeless and disability is that to show disabilty, you need to show that you were able to work, and now aren't. Many homeless people have a very shaky or spotty official work record, which prevents them from getting on disability, and a myriad of other services, such as food stamps (need utility bill, physical address, and phone).

There are many "broken" parts of the government because some fraud was exposed on 20/20 or other TV show, and congress made a knee jerk law without thinking of the consequences. Churches and food pantries can sometimes help, but first the person must go through detox. That is a free 30 day stay at the spin dry in South Dakota, where they are also given a psych eval. The problem is, nobody follows up on the evals, or helps them connect with a psychologist/psychiatrist once they are out.

This is the reason I say it will get worse before it gets better, and a lot of people will be in tough times. If the government could stop the "party line" bullshit and actually look at the issues, rather than the kickbacks for their next campaign, some things would improve, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
 

thatoneguy

Joined Feb 19, 2009
6,359
Again with the generalizations. It does not apply to all.
I do not try to generalize. I try to use the labels that have been provided for me by either the government, or the charities. They really don't care, and the generalizations tend to wear off on others eventually. Go to your local Social Services office and ask if you can volunteer. See what kind of attitude you are shown.
 

THE_RB

Joined Feb 11, 2008
5,438
(Edit) I removed my post because I was having a long rant against (what I perceive as) a broken medical system, and realised what I said from my personal perspective may have been unsympathetic to others and their individual medical cases.
 
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thatoneguy

Joined Feb 19, 2009
6,359
I broke my back racing motorcycles around a racetrack, I went home and healed myself, laying around on the lounge for a few weeks watching pay TV and eating milk, calcium supplements and some vitamins. After about 6 weeks it was still giving me some pain so I went and paid for an Xray, cost me about $65 cash. The Xray came back with report; "T5 thorasic vertebrae badly smashed, is now in advanced stages of healing". If I went to hospital they would have put me in traction for 3 months and I would have had a much less pleasant time and worse healing as "hospital healing" is practically an oxymoron. So how much would that have cost me in the US?
My back: Over $150,000
 
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