# mass productions or producing on a large scale ?

#### Mathematics!

Joined Jul 21, 2008
1,036
I have a high level view of how mass production works with circuit boards...etc

I am curious for mass producing washers , dryers , big appliances , cars , ...etc
How much human intervention is their.
For instance in mass producing a circuit board the human interaction is basically low
only at the points of programming the machines and loading the materials in to the machines.
(i.e the machines do most of all the work)

But when it comes to washer , dryers , big appliances , cars , planes ,...etc
How much intervention is their still or needed to complete the task.

Is their machines that can fully be programmed to put together a car , house , or plane yet ?
Or do we still need 1000's of assembly line workers ?

Also on a smaller scale of products how about a washer , dryer , refrigerator ,...etc
Do people manually put the refrigerators together (i.e attach pipes, compressor , doors ,..etc)
Or is their away to automate the whole process.

I would think we are still doing it all by hand because if not we would be putting 10,000's of workers out of business by machines doing it all/mostly all.

I am curious to know under producing what products do we still need alot of human intervention and why?

Maybe if their is an industrial engineer out their that is more familar with alot of how produces are produced on a large scale ....

#### maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
Depends where you are and what your talking about. For instance places like switzerland have factories that produce all this stuff and have a human staff of 5 people. Everything else is robotic. Then goto china and the exact same thing is made nearly entirely by hand because labor is so cheap. So its mnf various ways depending on where, what, and how.

On disocvery channel look for "How its made" and "Factory Made" these 2 shows will enlighten you as for how they mass produce everything.

#### Mathematics!

Joined Jul 21, 2008
1,036
Will look into discover channel ...

Depends where you are and what your talking about. For instance places like switzerland have factories that produce all this stuff and have a human staff of 5 people. Everything else is robotic. Then goto china and the exact same thing is made nearly entirely by hand because labor is so cheap. So its mnf various ways depending on where, what, and how.
1) So why don't we just let the computers do all the work ? ( and only have a few people go in to manage it every once in a while like those 5 people in your quote )

2) if china is doing alot by hand then wouldn't you have to train them on how to solder pipes
put together a compressor , ....etc etc
What I am getting at is some of the assembly in some case will take alot of skill and knowledge / understanding how it fundamental works .... to understand how to put it together. (takes alot of time to train or you have to use alot more people to do smaller tasks like soldering a specific pipe or putting on a specific door ...etc )

Either way I see your either adding people to compensate for the lack of their skills (i.e breaking tasks down to small easy tasks to complete by unskilled) or your adding time to complete the task for the fewer skilled workers that know stuff.

For example
To put in/ hook up a car engine is not so straight forward to an unskilled/unexperienced person.... (takes hooking gas lines , transmission , crankshaft , camshaft ,...etc)
Plus not using a machine would leave room for potential mistakes ever percentage of cars....etc

Unless of course they have a ton of workers working on smaller pieces one for the crankshaft , one for camshaft , one for spark plugs ,...etc

3)
Curious what types of mass producing machines we have in the US.
(i.e do we build cars , houses , home appliances , materials ,...etc mostly by hand.)
(which stuff do we have machines for and which do we not have machines for)

4) what products are made in the US and what are not ? (i.e what products do we outsources to have others do are work for us... and in the end lose are skills on that particular product)

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#### maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
Will look into discover channel ...

1) So why don't we just let the computers do all the work ? ( and only have a few people go in to manage it every once in a while like those 5 people in your quote )

2) if china is doing alot by hand then wouldn't you have to train them on how to solder pipes
put together a compressor , ....etc etc
What I am getting at is some of the assembly in some case will take alot of skill and knowledge / understanding how it fundamental works .... to understand how to put it together. (takes alot of time to train or you have to use alot more people to do smaller tasks like soldering a specific pipe or putting on a specific door ...etc )

Either way I see your either adding people to compensate for the lack of their skills (i.e breaking tasks down to small easy tasks to complete by unskilled) or your adding time to complete the task for the fewer skilled workers that know stuff.

For example
To put in/ hook up a car engine is not so straight forward to an unskilled/unexperienced person.... (takes hooking gas lines , transmission , crankshaft , camshaft ,...etc)
Plus not using a machine would leave room for potential mistakes ever percentage of cars....etc

Unless of course they have a ton of workers working on smaller pieces one for the crankshaft , one for camshaft , one for spark plugs ,...etc

3)
Curious what types of mass producing machines we have in the US.
(i.e do we build cars , houses , home appliances , materials ,...etc mostly by hand.)
(which stuff do we have machines for and which do we not have machines for)

4) what products are made in the US and what are not ? (i.e what products do we outsources to have others do are work for us... and in the end lose are skills on that particular product)

1. This is the Corps wet dream. No overhead, no employees, just profit profit profit.
2.?
3. None we shipped all our mnf jobs over seas and the equipment for it. If the US wants to start mnf again they will need to rebuild our entire production infrastructure in this country.
4. A trickier question is what is made in the US and Assembled in the US. Many corporations consider it the same thing.
3/

#### Mathematics!

Joined Jul 21, 2008
1,036
None we shipped all our mnf jobs over seas and the equipment for it. If the US wants to start mnf again they will need to rebuild our entire production infrastructure in this country.
If that where true then why do we have manufacturing jobs in the US.
I believe we still assembly a lot of parts and materials here.
And don't we make cars , computers ,....etc here?

A trickier question is what is made in the US and Assembled in the US. Many corporations consider it the same thing.
Do you have an example of a situation where US. assemblies but does not make the product used in assembling .

Question
1) what does the US. manufacture or sell product wise to other countries?
(for example I know we get a lot of are materials from other countries like china but do we have any products that the world gets from us predominately )

2) If we don't have mnf jobs all that much in the US. then where is the most amount of are employees doing in Corps/business?
I.E What is the break down of the US. civilian / (non-military) workforces doing

I know this
The U.S Department of Labor has the unemplyment rate currently at 7.2%, which it states is 11.1million people out of work. So divide 11.1/.072=154 million in the workfore.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

As of April 2009, the specific number was 154,731,000 in the civilian workforce. There are also approximately 1,500,000 in the military workforce.

FYI, the current population of the US is 306,531,009, meaning that more than half of the US is working. Out of the whole population, 11.1 million are out of work, 43 million are elderly (65+), 48 million are stay-at-home moms/dads, and 73 million are children under 18.

would like to know how much of the 154,731,000 civilian workforce is in IT , insurance , car mechanics , doctors , lawyers ,...etc etc a more granular break down of the workforce.

#### maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
IF that where true then why do we have manufacturing jobs in the US.
I believe we still assembly a lot of parts and materials here.
And don't we make cars , computers ,....etc here?

But we used to have way way way more mnf jobs here. Your just seeing the skeleton of whats left of our production lines.

Do you have an example of a situation where US. assemblies but does not make the product used in assembling .
All cars, trucks, and vehicles. and anything with a circuit board. Even for low run hobbyist its cheaper to get it done in china and shipped here.

Question
1) what does the US. manufacture or sell product wise to other countries?
(for example I know we get a lot of are materials from other countries like china but do we have any products that the world gets from us predominately )

FOOD, Technology, Weapons, and Jailbait.

2) If we don't have mnf jobs all that much in the US. then where is the most amount of are employees doing in Corps/business?
I.E What is the break down of the US. civilian / (non-military) workforces doing

Heres a list in order of how much. I haven't checked the numbers in a while.
China
Taiwan
Hong Kong
Mexico
Vietnam
Germany (Known for precision parts and complex assembly)
Japan (Known for precision parts amd complex assembly)
and soon we will see lots from eastern EU getting into the act.

would like to know how much of the 154,731,000 civilian workforce is in IT , insurance , car mechanics , doctors , lawyers ,...etc etc a more granular break down of the workforce.
I would guess around 15%

#### Mathematics!

Joined Jul 21, 2008
1,036
IF that where true then why do we have manufacturing jobs in the US.
I believe we still assembly a lot of parts and materials here.
And don't we make cars , computers ,....etc here?

But we used to have way way way more mnf jobs here. Your just seeing the skeleton of whats left of our production lines.

Do you have an example of a situation where US. assemblies but does not make the product used in assembling .
All cars, trucks, and vehicles. and anything with a circuit board. Even for low run hobbyist its cheaper to get it done in china and shipped here.
Then why does GM , GE , ...etc "mnf companies in US" have all those workers...
What are they doing if not manufacturing ? You only need so many people in accounting/financial/marketing sectors

Do you have an example of a situation where US. assemblies but does not make the product used in assembling .
All cars, trucks, and vehicles. and anything with a circuit board. Even for low run hobbyist its cheaper to get it done in china and shipped here.
Well I know of one small circuit board company called spring board in US.
Are You telling me dell , hp ,...etc send away to japan to get their mother boards or power supply circuit boards/ transmitters ... their is know / almost no circuit board companies in the US? (And we call are selves a technology country)

1) what does the US. manufacture or sell product wise to other countries?
(for example I know we get a lot of are materials from other countries like china but do we have any products that the world gets from us predominately )
FOOD, Technology, Weapons, and Jailbait.
I agree with food and weapons definitively .... what do you mean by technology and jailbait? (do you mean technology interms of creativity of electronic/mechanical devices and their uses )

Their is nothing else wooooo what are all are workers doing.
I agree research and development is one of the most important areas and we are definitely good at that.

would like to know how much of the 154,731,000 civilian workforce is in IT , insurance , car mechanics , doctors , lawyers ,...etc etc a more granular break down of the workforce.
I would guess around 15%
again what are the 85% of the other workers doing. ( are they in medical , financial/insurance/accounting , IT , transportation , ....???)

Is their some way I can get more information on the breakdown of what are civilian workforces is doing in terms of percentages.... i.e medical 20% , transport 10% ,...etc
And what locations in the US. contain the bulk of what type of work.... some type of database or site out their for this info)

#### maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
Ok yea GM and the others assemble here but assembly creates say 20,000 jobs. Making the parts for all these companies that assemble creates 22,000,000 jobs.

No way Japan is way too expensive to get motherboards from. 99.9% of motherboards and cell phones are made in China. Like us mnf in Japan is becoming too expesive for the greedy corps that can do it in a 3rd or 2nd world for way less.

As for the other 85%. Lets figure most real statiticians put the unemployment number at 20%-25%. So now were at 60%. Now consider all the gov and social services like IRS, police, county hospitals, schools, etc.. I would say that would count for 30%-40%. Then the other 20% I would say misc jobs or work from their homes. I know more people that hustle ebay, amazon, and CL then have real corp jobs.

#### Mathematics!

Joined Jul 21, 2008
1,036
As for the other 85%. Lets figure most real statiticians put the unemployment number at 20%-25%. So now were at 60%. Now consider all the gov and social services like IRS, police, county hospitals, schools, etc.. I would say that would count for 30%-40%. Then the other 20% I would say misc jobs or work from their homes. I know more people that hustle ebay, amazon, and CL then have real corp jobs.
No, way I don't full agree
What about the construction workers , transportation , ....etc

I think your numbers are alittle bit high?

First off is your 60% estimate based on total civilian work force or just the general total population? If it is in the total population then you have to subtract the no-workers or the stay at home mom's , elderly retired ,...etc out first...

I am only interested in what the civilian work forces percentage breakdown is not the no-civilian work force.

By your estimates we are basically just having police control order .
medical people to fix a growing number of unhealthly over weight / sick people
irs /financial people to take are money and 20% of people are actually getting things done.... i.e the 20% that work from home or research invent new things...

Seems to me most of are workers are just keeping us in line , fixing us,...etc but doesn't seem by you that we are getting things done from a mnf , IT , building ,...etc point of view.

If you think about it much of are work is spent fixing us... i.e we are more preoccupied with are selves then producing for others in a way. So then let me ask if we keep letting everybody outside US do are work for us and when we run out of money to give them .... then what ?

I do agree US. poses the most smart greatest minds / universities in the world (I know their are some exceptions in particular non-US countries ..)
But the problem is the smart people in are country is like 0.1% if that.
China may have say 40% smart but not anywhere near as smart as are .01% of are smart guys.... but in the end the 40% would beat are .01% even if we are smarter .... just by sure numbers.

So why cann't we get are schools elementary , high school's to be like are colleges/universities ... maybe are students at that level are just not interested... duno

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#### maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
Just the work force.

#### Mathematics!

Joined Jul 21, 2008
1,036
Yes just the percentage on the civilian workforce.
i.e medical ,doctors 20% ,....etc etc

Is their a site that stores this economical data on the breakdown of are workforce in depth or at least a good approximation.... (i.e I would say the irs has the ability to get a good approximation by tax form info of the approx. civilian workforce though I don't know if they make the breakdown publicly available )

I am breaking the workforce into civilian and military I am not interested in the military (1.5 million approx. only civilian non-military workforce)

Question 2
Also like to know by state a breakdown of what the civilian workforce percentage is for that particular state under consideration.
Like as you go farther west the states farming workforces probably increases a little... due to more land and maybe climate change
Or at least analyzing different states have different strengths so to say/trends in their work force.

Question 3
For you economics majors is their any database or online site that allows you to get this economic data of the workforces , and other america economical statistics ?

#### loosewire

Joined Apr 25, 2008
1,686
I saw the numbers numbers somewhere #40 white #35 black # 25 hipanic # 7 Aian.

#### thatoneguy

Joined Feb 19, 2009
6,359
1. This is the Corps wet dream. No overhead, no employees, just profit profit profit.
You say "profit" like it is a bad thing.

Why would somebody go into business if the goal was not to make money?

There are many items where the components are made in other countries, and "integrated" to the final product in the US. The tag often says "Assembled in USA, using some materials from Japan and Taiwan" for example.

Clothing is one of those items. The popultion of the lower aged people in the US want very "trendy" clothes, so there is a continual market for new designs. In order to produce them in affordable quantities, the fabric is woven and dyed in a different country, then sent to a company in the US which stamps out the shapes needed to make the garment, and automated sewing/feed machines assemble it. One person can run several machines.

The company still has a staff of 1,000 or more, due to a design department, a marketing department, tech departments, IT department, HR department, etc. They make a profit, if they do not make a profit for more than about 2 years in a row, those 1,000 jobs go away.

--ETA: What we are seeing with many people is they are not keeping up with technology. Just as the MPAA and RIAA are mad at the internet, assembly line workers are mad at robots. Instead of adapting, they want the robots/internet removed so it will be like "the old days".

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#### maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
Yes I think profit is a bad thing when it comes at the cost of our middle class labour, our health benefits, and our jobs. In that aspect profit is a very bad thing. If you still turn a profit and don't ship your jobs offshore, you keep all your US jobs, and run your company right. Profits great!

#### thatoneguy

Joined Feb 19, 2009
6,359
Yes I think profit is a bad thing when it comes at the cost of our middle class labour, our health benefits, and our jobs. In that aspect profit is a very bad thing. If you still turn a profit and don't ship your jobs offshore, you keep all your US jobs, and run your company right. Profits great!
When workers demand $70,000 a year for what should be a$20/hr job, in addition to health insurance that costs roughly $500 PER EMPLOYEE, it is extremely difficult to pay the labor AND make a profit, it is an either/or situation. People need to realize that$35,000/year is what they are worth, unless they gather more skills for a better job elsewhere. Demanding more money from the employer for doing a job that somebody straight out of high school could do after 2 months training (1 paid month of which is spent watching OSHA regulation videos), is a bit ridiculous.

McDonalds profits billions of dollars per year, should all the employees get raises until the profit is exactly 1 million per year?

#### justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
429
--ETA: What we are seeing with many people is they are not keeping up with technology. Just as the MPAA and RIAA are mad at the internet, assembly line workers are mad at robots. Instead of adapting, they want the robots/internet removed so it will be like "the old days".
So when a robot takes over your job, how exactly do you adapt? There are no farming jobs, manufacturing is taking over by robots, robots will soon be serviced by other robots and humans are also serviced by robots. So why are we here exactly?

#### MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
20,882
If robots did our work for us why would we need a job? If robots can prepare our food, make our homes and clothe our bodies, all we would have to do is enjoy life. The only reason we need to make a profit and make money is so that the next generation of workers can do these things for us.

#### thatoneguy

Joined Feb 19, 2009
6,359
So when a robot takes over your job, how exactly do you adapt? There are no farming jobs, manufacturing is taking over by robots, robots will soon be serviced by other robots and humans are also serviced by robots. So why are we here exactly?
There are multiple ways.

Start in a new career where you can't be replaced by a robot.

Become a CNC tecnichian or G-Code programmer for the robots

The people lamenting robots making manufacturing easier, and quality of life higher, are like those who hate HDTV because their TV isn't widescreen.

I agree that the one job per life concept has vaporized in many areas, but I also need to be aware of what is coming, and learn about it so that I do not become obsolete myself.

Avoiding self-obsolescence is one thing that isn't taught in schools, it's a thing life teaches you by losing your job. I lost two IT jobs in "The DotCom Bubble" just before y2k. I saw both of them coming for at least 3 months, by the time the company was minimizing or closing, I'd already sent out resumes and had interviews and walked into my next job doing something else. I didn't use EE, I was a database and network admin, being able to wear to hats with a degree and certs helps.

Lots of that can be done on your own time, by reading forums like this, tech updates, etc. Instead of watching TV. Then send out a flurry of resumes and wear a smile, don't act bitter, and you'll get another job. You may have to relocate, but you probably aren't going to get the exact same job again.

I don't think I'm ever going to have an office with a couch, palm tree, and sun light again, for example.

#### justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
429
I just see it from a different angle - mass production is done by robots. Unique articles are done by people. Both have to be bought. I am sorry, but I am lamenting the fact that people are becoming the servers for the massive computer networks. That is all. I use technology, I do not live technology. If that is my future, I would rather be a farmer, but I have no money to buy land, plus there already was a nice thread covering this topic