Linear power supply using audio-grade caps is any better than similar high-quality ones?

Thread Starter

Ducnguyen2k10

Joined Jan 30, 2022
13
I had a big online fight with this guy making so-called “hi-end” linear power supply.
I said the capacitors he’s using in his LPS should not provide better DC output than the same parameter capacitors!
I challenged him to show the oscilioscope of his LPS DC output measurement but he tried to avoid.
I don’t see the neccesity to use audio-grade capacitors in the LPS.
Additionally, this guy and some of his friends argued that LPS is essential and should improve SQ when using to power ethernet switch, and DC-powered equipments in the chain of audio system.
Does anyone here has experience and knowleage to prove me wrong!?
 

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Ian0

Joined Aug 7, 2020
5,147
What is meant by audio grade? Can he quantify it? Did he send the oscilloscope trace?
How is his DC output "better"?
Did he send comparable specs for ripple and noise?
What is SQ?
What DC-powered audio equipment was he referring to?
Did he also tell you that an absolutely enormous toroidal transformer was essential?
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
29,799
Sounds like another audiophile unsubstantiated claim about a component, such as a $500 power cord made with low oxygen copper and virgin electrons, that magically improves the audio sound of your system. :rolleyes:
 

ElectricSpidey

Joined Dec 2, 2017
2,146
In general, better quality components make a better finished product...that's a given but "Audio Grade" just sounds like marketing.

Those supplies are pretty tho...have to admit that.
 

DickCappels

Joined Aug 21, 2008
8,710
SQ= Sound Quality.

A well designed amplifier should have enough local filtering and power supply rejection that a small amount of noise could be suppressed by 80 or 100 db.
 

Ya’akov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
5,663
The function of the bulk capacitance in a linear supply is as a very large low pass filter. The capacitors will never have to deal with audio frequencies, and if they do, they are poorly specified and the problem will not be improved with more musical capacitors.

This is in the category of audiophile power cords and Ethernet cables, only slightly less obvious.

[EDIT: Added a missing not which entirely changes the meaning, though I think readers probably understood and did not notice it was missing.]
 
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Thread Starter

Ducnguyen2k10

Joined Jan 30, 2022
13
What is meant by audio grade? Can he quantify it? Did he send the oscilloscope trace?
How is his DC output "better"?
Did he send comparable specs for ripple and noise?
What is SQ?
What DC-powered audio equipment was he referring to?
Did he also tell you that an absolutely enormous toroidal transformer was essential?
You can see the caps he put into his LPS, either Mundorf or Dulund has the “audio capacitor” written on. I asked him to send the oscilioscope of LPS using audio-grade caps vs similar normal caps, but he avoided to show. So I couldn’t quantify the quality of his LPS’ DC output.
SQ means Sound Quality.
As then, he never show me his product’s specs like ripple or noise, and so on.
The DC-powered audio equipments he also never quite says it clearly, but I assume he’s refering to ethernet switch, NAS, …
 

Ian0

Joined Aug 7, 2020
5,147
You can see the caps he put into his LPS, either Mundorf or Dulund has the “audio capacitor” written on. I asked him to send the oscilioscope of LPS using audio-grade caps vs similar normal caps, but he avoided to show. So I couldn’t quantify the quality of his LPS’ DC output.
SQ means Sound Quality.
As then, he never show me his product’s specs like ripple or noise, and so on.
The DC-powered audio equipments he also never quite says it clearly, but I assume he’s refering to ethernet switch, NAS, …
Without any specifications, don't believe a word of it.
The bit about ethernet is complete nonsense. Ethernet has error correction!
 

Thread Starter

Ducnguyen2k10

Joined Jan 30, 2022
13
Without any specifications, don't believe a word of it.
The bit about ethernet is complete nonsense. Ethernet has error correction!
They always tell the story that the LPS will make less noise transfered from switch to streamer or amplifier connected to it thru ethernet cable, which then results in less noise background during music reproducing, or less jitter in DAC, etc.
 

Thread Starter

Ducnguyen2k10

Joined Jan 30, 2022
13
It would be perfect if you guys has any measurements to prove there would be no differences in DC output quality btween audiophile LPS vs normal good quality LPS! Since without objective measurement, I cannot prove that his claims are wrong!
 

Ian0

Joined Aug 7, 2020
5,147
It would be perfect if you guys has any measurements to prove there would be no differences in DC output quality btween audiophile LPS vs normal good quality LPS!
Unfortunately for you, I don't think many of the regular contributors to this forum would be daft enough to buy one! Probably a lot of us wouldn't be rich enough to buy one! Most people who own one wouldn't let anyone measure it in case they found out the truth - which they don't want to know.
 

Ya’akov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
5,663
It would be perfect if you guys has any measurements to prove there would be no differences in DC output quality btween audiophile LPS vs normal good quality LPS! Since without objective measurement, I cannot prove that his claims are wrong!
In this case the burden of proof is on him. Even without waveforms or other measurements, can he provide a proposed mechanism by which the bulk capacitance in a power supply would be improved by using capacitors that might improve an audio circuit?

What is his explanation? If he has none, then it's just a bald assertion and you can simply assert he is wrong in return.
 

Thread Starter

Ducnguyen2k10

Joined Jan 30, 2022
13
In this case the burden of proof is on him. Even without waveforms or other measurements, can he provide a proposed mechanism by which the bulk capacitance in a power supply would be improved by using capacitors that might improve an audio circuit?

What is his explanation? If he has none, then it's just a bald assertion and you can simply assert he is wrong in return.
I know! Sadly I felt into group of his friends which all tried to protect him and telling me that i’m all wrong because I have not had any experience of using it, or my ear not good enough to hear, or i must have a system resolving enough to hear the difference.
I cannot argue with that without having objective measurements!
 

Ian0

Joined Aug 7, 2020
5,147
I know! Sadly I felt into group of his friends which all tried to protect him and telling me that i’m all wrong because I have not had any experience of using it, or my ear not good enough to hear, or i must have a system resolving enough to hear the difference.
I cannot argue with that without having objective measurements!
As @Yaakov says the burden of proof is on him, but Don't waste your time he won't believe you as @dl324 says
Only people with £10000 to burn can hear the difference!
 

Ya’akov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
5,663
I know! Sadly I felt into group of his friends which all tried to protect him and telling me that i’m all wrong because I have not had any experience of using it, or my ear not good enough to hear, or i must have a system resolving enough to hear the difference.
I cannot argue with that without having objective measurements!
I'll tell you a secret, you can't argue with objective measurements. If they are claiming to know by "hearing a difference", which is entirely subjective, what good would measurement of millivolts do?

I sold high end audio gear for several years. Not the nonsense stuff but things that actually improved the sound. The way i "proved" things worked or didn't was A/B testing, and if you really think you can get to them at all (which I doubt) it will be with a blind A/B listening test. When they can't reliably pick the "better" one, they might relent, but don't count on it.

Eventually, it will be because there is a non-believer in the room, like with psychics. You are trying to argue science against religion, it's fruitless.
 

Ian0

Joined Aug 7, 2020
5,147
I know! Sadly I felt into group of his friends which all tried to protect him and telling me that i’m all wrong because I have not had any experience of using it, or my ear not good enough to hear, or i must have a system resolving enough to hear the difference.
I cannot argue with that without having objective measurements!
Does he listen to MP3 files on it?
 
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