how to get the stable amplified output for strain gauge

ebp

Joined Feb 8, 2018
2,332
I have to go do some things soon, so I'll leave this here now.

The output of a bridge is directly proportional to the excitation voltage. If the bridge is perfectly balanced there will be no differential signal out, regardless of the excitation voltage. As soon as the bridge becomes unbalanced, then the effect of proportionality can be seen readily. If the excitation is not stable and free of noise the output of the bridge cannot be stable and free of noise.

If the output of the amplifier on the bridge is going to the input of an analog to digital converter that gets its voltage reference from exactly the same place as the bridge excitation, the variation in bridge output due to variation in the excitation voltage is cancelled. But in practice this will rarely happen.

The impression I get is that Arduino and other hobby boards typically just use the 5 V supply, perhaps with some filtering, as the reference for the ADC (some microcontrollers with ADCs have the option of an external ref, some have a reasonably good internal ref, some give no choice but to use the digital V+ as a ref). That's OK if the circuit is done very carefully and the demands are not high. If the 5 V used comes form a computer's USB port, it will be horrible. It will vary by hundreds of millivolts and have all sorts of noise on it. It is generally much better to use a decent voltage reference. I would use a 4.1 V reference (actually 4.096 V for a high-precision ref, since that makes scaling precise - 0.25, 0.50, 1.00, 2.00, etc. millivolts per count, depending on ADC resolution). The same reference could be buffered and used as excitation for the bridge, or you could use a different, stable low-noise reference for the bridge.

The three-amplifier instrumentation amplifier is a circuit well worth experimenting with understanding if you intend to do analog work. Either using simulation or "hand" calculations (I strongly recommend a spreadsheet for the latter) the effects of mismatch of the resistors will become apparent. It is matching of the ratios of the resistors that is important to "common mode rejection" - you want exactly the same gain for the inverting and non-inverting inputs. An ideal instrumentation amplifier will give zero output if the voltages at both inputs are identical, no matter the magnitude or frequency, within the range the amp can handle. In practical circuits, it is not just the rejection of the DC zero-signal (signal here meaning force, temperature, etc, depending on what the bridge is to measure) but rejection of common-mode noise that may be coupled onto the connecting wires. An understanding of "common mode noise" versus "normal mode" noise is essential - it will teach you why long individual wires running from board to board are bad.

For some applications you require very precise matching of the resistor ratios. For many practical applications matching of 0.1% to 1% may be acceptable. There is no point paying large amounts of money for 0.01% resistors if the system performance doesn't require it (concept here is "error budget"). One of the big advantages of using an IC instrumentation amp instead of building your own is that the critical resistor ratios are precisely matched by laser trimming and they track each other will with temperature variation and aging. Depending on the actual configuration of the circuit (there are about 3 common ways to arrange the amplifiers), it may not matter if the absolute values of the resistors are a long way from nominal ±20% could be fine, as long as matching in the pairs is very precise (which is a good thing, because making high-precision resistors on an IC is nearly impossible). As others have mentioned, there are some very nice, reasonably priced instrumentation amplifiers from several manufacturers.

You should be able to find a great deal of good information about differential amplifiers and instrumentation amplifiers on the web, in data sheets, applications notes and handbooks from TI, Analog Devices and Linear Technology.
 

Thread Starter

rajitpk

Joined Jan 30, 2018
108
hi rajit,
Build the circuit I posted, test it and post back your test results.
E
HI erigibbs,

i build the circuit.
but practically i cannot able to get output.
my output is stands on 1.79v for both (input)1mv and 3mv. there is no changes according to my input.
my circuit connections all are perfect. but still now i cannot able to see changes in the output .
 

ericgibbs

Joined Jan 29, 2010
21,580
hi rajit,
Are the resistor tolerances at least 0.1%.? 0.01% ideally should be used.
The circuit should work as LTS shows in the images I have posted.
Could you do the follow test measurements and post a diagram back showing the values you measure.

Eric
 

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Thread Starter

rajitpk

Joined Jan 30, 2018
108
hi rajit,
Are the resistor tolerances at least 0.1%.? 0.01% ideally should be used.
The circuit should work as LTS shows in the images I have posted.
Could you do the follow test measurements and post a diagram back showing the values you measure.

Eric
as per your red mark, here i share the values what i got...
give me the suggestion.
my amplifier circuit is not working
 

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Thread Starter

rajitpk

Joined Jan 30, 2018
108
hi rajit,
Are the resistor tolerances at least 0.1%.? 0.01% ideally should be used.
The circuit should work as LTS shows in the images I have posted.
Could you do the follow test measurements and post a diagram back showing the values you measure.

Eric
no the resistance tolerance is at least 1%.
and also still i use ic741. for the microchip opamp i can able to get after 2
weeks. so right now i do not have a option else that ic741.
in this kind of situation can i get the output more or less 70% using ic 741
 

ericgibbs

Joined Jan 29, 2010
21,580
hi rajit,
That explains the problem, the 741 and and 1% tolerance resistors are totally unsuitable for that project.
I have been double checking 'the circuit I posted', I could not find anything wrong with it that would give that high Vout value.?

I would advise that you do not proceed with the 741 and 1% resistors, you will never get the performance you require.
Eric
 

Thread Starter

rajitpk

Joined Jan 30, 2018
108
hi rajit,
That explains the problem, the 741 and and 1% tolerance resistors are totally unsuitable for that project.
I have been double checking 'the circuit I posted', I could not find anything wrong with it that would give that high Vout value.?

I would advise that you do not proceed with the 741 and 1% resistors, you will never get the performance you require.
Eric
okay eric.
 

Thread Starter

rajitpk

Joined Jan 30, 2018
108
hi eric,
now i get my output. now i have to convert my 1-5v output to 4-20ma.
here i post one circuit is really helpful?
or suggest me a suitable circuit....
 

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Thread Starter

rajitpk

Joined Jan 30, 2018
108
hi rajit,
Which types of Instrumentation OPA are available in your location.?
We could then recommend a suitable type.
E
in my location the ic741 are available easily. i can have a option for lm358
else you can suggest me the suitable one?
 

ericgibbs

Joined Jan 29, 2010
21,580
hi r,
Those are not Instrumentation type OPA's [ for comparison ONLY look up the AD623 INA]

If you can only build your own INA using LM358's , I would suggest a dual power supply, say +/-5V and use at least 0.1% resistors in the circuit, 0.01% are more typical.
Can you get those components.?

E
 

Thread Starter

rajitpk

Joined Jan 30, 2018
108
hi r,
Those are not Instrumentation type OPA's [ for comparison ONLY look up the AD623 INA]

If you can only build your own INA using LM358's , I would suggest a dual power supply, say +/-5V and use at least 0.1% resistors in the circuit, 0.01% are more typical.
Can you get those components.?

E
yes i can... you suggest me
 

ericgibbs

Joined Jan 29, 2010
21,580
hi r,
Woops, I missed the circuit in your post #29, I thought we were still working on the original INA amplifier you posted.:rolleyes:

Are you able to get a AD694 IC, that is the type I used.
E
 

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ericgibbs

Joined Jan 29, 2010
21,580
hi r,
Woops, I missed the circuit in your post #29, I thought we were still working on the original INA amplifier you posted.:rolleyes:

Are you able to get a AD694 IC, that is the type I used.
E
 

Thread Starter

rajitpk

Joined Jan 30, 2018
108
hi r,
Woops, I missed the circuit in your post #29, I thought we were still working on the original INA amplifier you posted.:rolleyes:

Are you able to get a AD694 IC, that is the type I used.
E
yes i will search for it.
but i want build the 4-20mA circuit like my previous amplifier circuit... can you help me
 

ericgibbs

Joined Jan 29, 2010
21,580
OK,
Build the 4-20mA circuit using the LM358 , if they are the only OPA's you can buy.
You must use a 24V supply and 0.1% resistors.

E
 
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