How to Add a 2nd Delay Relay to Solenoid

Thread Starter

ltoraya

Joined Dec 9, 2021
14
Hello,

Bear with me since I am fairly new to anything electronics related so forgive my ignorance to easy answers.

I currently have a sensor connected to a solenoid. After some struggle, I found a way to successfully connect an 8-pin delay relay in series. However, I now need two different delay relay functions performed after the sensor receives the ON signal.

I figured it would be as easy as to repeat the pin connection process one more time but it has not proved as simple. I currently have the sensor's signal going into pin 7, and ground to pin 2. I have pin 7 looped to pin 8. As far as the output, I connected it back to the solenoid using pin-6 and another wire from pin-2.

If I repeat the process, I can get the voltage output to come out of pin-5 of the 2nd delay relay, which does perform the first function. However, it does not perform the 2nd delay relay's function. For example, I want to add an on-delay relay then a on-interval relay to shut the signal off after a preset time.

I can get it to work fine with one but not both, is there something Im missing or skipping over? Any advice helps, thank you. (if possible to explain solution in less complicated terms it would be very much appreciated lol)
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
12,402
Since I do not have the circuit with a description of what is at those pin numbers I would only be making random guesses as to what is happening. I know that there is some consistency among 8-pin plug in relays, but not sure about what you are describing. And I am quite unable to look into your mind and see the circuit. So I apologise for being unable to help without more details.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
12,402
OK, now for the questions:: Do you need one delay to start when the sensore triggers it, and then a second delay to start after the first delay time is completed? OR do you need two delay times to start when the sensor triggers? Quite a bit different functions.
And, are you using standard pinout industrial time delay relays that have a delayed operate after the trigger is applied?
 

Reloadron

Joined Jan 15, 2015
6,701
Less knowing details and the full scope of the project it's a little difficult. A simple 8 pin octal base relay fits some of your description. Normally a DPDT where pins 2 and 7 are power . That's a basic relay. Pin 1 is a common for pins 3 N/O and Pin 4 N/C. Pin 8 is common for pins 5 N/C and pin 8 N/C. That is a standard 8 pin octal base pinout DPDT relay. Most but not all look like this:
round-relay-pinout.jpg

Now you have a sensor operate that relay configuration, what exactly do you want to happen? You can ass another relay like a delay on Make or delay on Break. Either will have a preset or adjustable delay for Make or Break. They can even be cascaded. This is a good read on timing relays. If you just want a delay on Make your sensor would trigger your delay on make or Break relay. You just need to well define exactly, in detail, what series of events you want.

Ron
 

Thread Starter

ltoraya

Joined Dec 9, 2021
14
Hello,

Bear with me since I am fairly new to anything electronics related so forgive my ignorance to easy answers.

I currently have a sensor connected to a solenoid. After some struggle, I found a way to successfully connect an 8-pin delay relay in series. However, I now need two different delay relay functions performed after the sensor receives the ON signal.

I figured it would be as easy as to repeat the pin connection process one more time but it has not proved as simple. I currently have the sensor's signal going into pin 7, and ground to pin 2. I have pin 7 looped to pin 8. As far as the output, I connected it back to the solenoid using pin-6 and another wire from pin-2.

If I repeat the process, I can get the voltage output to come out of pin-5 of the 2nd delay relay, which does perform the first function. However, it does not perform the 2nd delay relay's function. For example, I want to add an on-delay relay then a on-interval relay to shut the signal off after a preset time.

I can get it to work fine with one but not both, is there something Im missing or skipping over? Any advice helps, thank you. (if possible to explain solution in less complicated terms it would be very much appreciated)

1655915015110.png

This schematic is correct.

To answer other questions, I can have one delay start after the other or I can have them start at the same time due to ability to adjust the time on the relay. The basic function I want it to perform is when the sensor signal turns On, first there is an on-delay timer for a couple of seconds, but I also want to add an "Interval On" relay that will shut off the power after a set time until the signal is reset.

I can adjust the Interval On timer to fit accordingly whether I have them start at the same time or have them start one after the other.

However, I am having difficulty achieving both functions. If I get the voltage to run through the circuit using both relay bases, I have only been able to have the first function performed and the voltage run through the second relay out of Pin-5 with no voltage coming out of pin-6 at any time.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
12,402
The symptom described indicates that the second timer is never triggered. How long is the trigger active after it comes on? Does it stay on until reset? Or does it eventually switch off?
 

Thread Starter

ltoraya

Joined Dec 9, 2021
14
The symptom described indicates that the second timer is never triggered. How long is the trigger active after it comes on? Does it stay on until reset? Or does it eventually switch off?

Correct, it wont trigger the second timer. In the 2nd relay base, as soon as voltage is inserted into it with pin 2 and pin 7, the voltage is being output from pin-5 immediately and unaffected by the relay function or time and nothing ever from pin 6.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
12,402
Well YES, that is how it works. The voltage is at pin #5, the NC connection, until the time elapses, then pin#5 switches off and pin 6 becomes live, and should stay live until the trigger is removed. So then pin #6 should power the second timer pin#7 Both pins #2 go to the power source common. Mains "line" connects to pin#8 andalso as thetrigger source to the trigger device.Mains line also connects to pin#8 of timer #2, and when that time is done then pin #6 on timer #2 becomes active. Pins #1, #3, and #4 on each timer are available for controlling whatever needs to be controlled.
 

Thread Starter

ltoraya

Joined Dec 9, 2021
14
Well YES, that is how it works. The voltage is at pin #5, the NC connection, until the time elapses, then pin#5 switches off and pin 6 becomes live, and should stay live until the trigger is removed. So then pin #6 should power the second timer pin#7 Both pins #2 go to the power source common. Mains "line" connects to pin#8 and also as thetrigger source to the trigger device.Mains line also connects to pin#8 of timer #2, and when that time is done then pin #6 on timer #2 becomes active. Pins #1, #3, and #4 on each timer are available for controlling whatever needs to be controlled.

Yeah my issue is it wont switch pin 6 on timer #2 live at all. Sometimes it wont even power through timer #1's pin-6 until I disconnect timer #2 off the series. Would this mean it is a low amp or voltage issue?

1655931037510.png

I currently have it set up like this, I figured I could successfully replicate it by connecting this first-timer base to a second the exact same way. If i flip the wire connections, it either shorts or never gives power to pin-6, only pin-5 and without following the function of the second timer.
 

Thread Starter

ltoraya

Joined Dec 9, 2021
14
Yeah my issue is it wont switch pin 6 on timer #2 live at all. Sometimes it wont even power through timer #1's pin-6 until I disconnect timer #2 off the series. Would this mean it is a low amp or voltage issue?

View attachment 270008

I currently have it set up like this, I figured I could successfully replicate it by connecting this first-timer base to a second the exact same way. If i flip the wire connections, it either shorts or never gives power to pin-6, only pin-5 and without following the function of the second timer.

1655931646978.png

I have also tried this too but although can successfully connect one relay timer, have not been able to successfully connect the second. Does it point toward a Voltage or Amp issue if it should be wired correctly but won't work? (Not to say that im that confident in the fact that it is wired correctly.)
 

Reloadron

Joined Jan 15, 2015
6,701
OK, we see the pinout of the first relay. You have two sets of contacts to work with. The second relay can be a "delay on make" (On Delay or Delay On Operate) triggered by the first relay's unused contacts. A relay like this or similar. The link is merely an example.

Ron
 

Thread Starter

ltoraya

Joined Dec 9, 2021
14
OK, we see the pinout of the first relay. You have two sets of contacts to work with. The second relay can be a "delay on make" (On Delay or Delay On Operate) triggered by the first relay's unused contacts. A relay like this or similar. The link is merely an example.

Ron
Yes I am using one similar to that which is On Delay, and another which is Interval On. My goal is for, when triggered, the solenoid has a couple second delay (set by the On Delay) but then a time limit set where the solenoid will be on before the power is cut (performed by the Interval On relay).
 

Thread Starter

ltoraya

Joined Dec 9, 2021
14
OK, we see the pinout of the first relay. You have two sets of contacts to work with. The second relay can be a "delay on make" (On Delay or Delay On Operate) triggered by the first relay's unused contacts. A relay like this or similar. The link is merely an example.

Ron
My apologies, it took me a couple re-reads to understand what you were getting at. How would I go about connecting the second relay to be triggered off the first relay's unused contact if the first step need to be an On Delay and the second one Interval On?

The power will begin being exerted from pin-5 until the On Delay switches on which then sends the power to pin-6, therefore not entirely unused. How would I connect both using both sets of contacts?
 

Reloadron

Joined Jan 15, 2015
6,701
Either way since each relay has two sets of contacts you would use them. For example if I turn on the first relay Pins 6 & 8 will close. so I connect pin 8 to my control (coil) voltage for my second relay and my second relay coil to pin 6 of my first relay. My second relay is a delay on make so after the first relay is energized after the preset delay the second relay will turn on.

Using two delay on make when the first relay is energized there will be a preset delay. When the delay period times out the first relay's contacts will close. That closure would begin the delay on the second relay.

All of these relays are available in various coil voltages and will run on AC or DC depending on what you buy / want. :)

Ron
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
12,402
I was presuming that the timer was a "delayed on" type, where when power is applied, after the time delay then the contacts transfer. Really, that was what I was using for both timers.
 

Thread Starter

ltoraya

Joined Dec 9, 2021
14
I was presuming that the timer was a "delayed on" type, where when power is applied, after the time delay then the contacts transfer. Really, that was what I was using for both timers.
The first relay is "delayed on" type, but the second would be "interval on" type.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
12,402
OK on it being an "interval on" version. But the problem appears to be that it never gets started. Perhaps no power is actually getting to the timer. If the power connection line from pin #6 of the first timer is connected to pin #7, is pin #2 tied to neutral?? So here is an option, which is put that interval timer in the timer ONE socket and see if it even operates. Possibly it is set for a zero time interval. Things like that do happen.
Also, verify that the sockets are good. Some brands use welded steel stampings to make the connections and the spot welds fail on occasion. But a zero time interval may be the problem.
 

Thread Starter

ltoraya

Joined Dec 9, 2021
14
OK on it being an "interval on" version. But the problem appears to be that it never gets started. Perhaps no power is actually getting to the timer. If the power connection line from pin #6 of the first timer is connected to pin #7, is pin #2 tied to neutral?? So here is an option, which is put that interval timer in the timer ONE socket and see if it even operates. Possibly it is set for a zero time interval. Things like that do happen.
Also, verify that the sockets are good. Some brands use welded steel stampings to make the connections and the spot welds fail on occasion. But a zero time interval may be the problem.
Double checked and although I wish it was that simple, unfortunately, that wasn't it. Does that possibly point to a lack of enough current to drive both the relays? If I double-checked both sets of products work and the wiring of the first relay works perfectly fine but wiring the second set in series in the same way as the first causes it to no longer work, what would that point to?
 
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