Let me begin with your last point. Of course not. That's why one would like 'reasonable intuitions' to be subject to thorough scientific testing.
Now that we're clear (I hope) that I'm not a moron, let me address the rest of what you have to say. First, I am a firm believer in capitalism, and the Western regime of scientific testing, for all of the reasons you mention. Second, there are a number of US patented electrical healing devices: the Beck blood electrification device, which harmlessly electrifies the blood with current known to be fatal to micro-organisms; another one whose name I forget that is used for passing DC current through tumors, etc.. Third, in every instance I know of (and contrary to your claim about what has taken place during the past 120 years) no proper large scale trials have been conducted, and I don't think it makes me anti-capitalist to wonder if Big Pharma, who fund most medical research, have had a role in this: the problem, from a capitalist perspective, is that if any of these things actually work then there will be relatively little profit in it - you can literally make a Beck zapper yourself, at home, e.g.. If I am wrong about the absence of proper scientific trials, please show me the evidence for this. And if there have been proper trials with negative results which then went unpublished, then shame on the scientific community for not seeing that disproofs are as much a part of the scientific project as proofs.

Your theory is quite weird. Big pharma would love to replace difficult to synthesize, purify, package and deliver with an electromechanical device. The cost of building chemical plants and maintaining them in a cGMP quality and safety status is expensive and prone to off-spec, recalls and other failures. The idea that a treatment could be had by a simple sensor, circuit board and some feedback to the patient with a display or beeps, that would be like printing money. Patients would prefer it, "big pharma " would prefer it. The only companies that would hat it is the roughly 2000 small pharmaceutical intermediates producers across India and China that sell building blocks to Big Pharma to convert into their patented treatments. I don't think any of these companies can quickly convert their production to printed circuit boards. On the other hand, big pharma would love to shutter their chemical plants and the liability of poliution or poisoning of a community - that's really bad press for them.

Bad assumptions leads to bad theories


Cheers.

 

Also, human red blood cells are effectively Dead cells. They do not have a nucleus, they cannot divide and grow. In fact, the American Red Cross typically sterilizes red blood cells for storage by exposing them to high doses of Cobalt-60 gamma rays. The radiation kills the bacteria and fungi that are actively growing and most spores that are dormant. I don't know how you test if electricity damaged some red blood cells, I guess the sample would simply have more platelet-like content.

Note, I said Human red blood cells because most birds and reptiles have a nucleus.

 

Your theory is quite weird. Big pharma would love to replace difficult to synthesize, purify, package and deliver with an electromechanical device. The cost of building chemical plants and maintaining them in a cGMP quality and safety status is expensive and prone to off-spec, recalls and other failures. The idea that a treatment could be had by a simple sensor, circuit board and some feedback to the patient with a display or beeps, that would be like printing money. Patients would prefer it, "big pharma " would prefer it. The only companies that would hat it is the roughly 2000 small pharmaceutical intermediates producers across India and China that sell building blocks to Big Pharma to convert into their patented treatments. I don't think any of these companies can quickly convert their production to printed circuit boards. On the other hand, big pharma would love to shutter their chemical plants and the liability of poliution or poisoning of a community - that's really bad press for them.

Cheers.

Let's leave my weirdness out of it, shall we? (1) Are you saying producing pharmaceuticals has not been an enormously profitable business (despite the many input and incidental costs)? My impression is that it is one of the most profitable business models of all time, if not the most profitable of all time. (2) Let's say the Beck zapper has all of the healing properties its inventor claimed it had (which I seriously doubt). How would Big Pharma profit from that at all? Rather, it would soon put them out of business, since the devices are so simple their high-tech services would no longer be required.

 

Let's leave my weirdness out of it, shall we? (1) Are you saying producing pharmaceuticals has not been an enormously profitable business (despite the many input and incidental costs)? My impression is that it is one of the most profitable business models of all time, if not the most profitable of all time. (2) Let's say the Beck zapper has all of the healing properties its inventor claimed it had (which I seriously doubt). How would Big Pharma profit from that at all? Rather, it would soon put them out of business, since the devices are so simple their high-tech services would no longer be required.

You can test the Beck Zapper for the next 10,000 years, the fact is, it has no merit in terms of electrical healing other then disinfecting dead red blood cells.

The Pharma industry as you call it, is really a healing industry. People are willing to drain their life savings for one more month of life or to get back to doing what they used to do. Do you think Abbott labs would turn down a device that would make them money? They invented the Stent for circulatory and digestive problems. A stent is a piece of Nitinol tubing laser cut into a mesh-like cylinder that can be collapsed and inserted into your aorta or other weak or collapsed or thinning or constricted blood vessel or an intestine section. Abbott's not chemical business got so big thst they split into Abbott and Abbvie. Other companies make hip and knee replacements that drugs just can't compete with (yet). Some market ports to monitor blood sugar levels (and some also deliver medication). I'm sure Big Parma will come up with a licensing, leasing, per use pricing model thst will make them rich. Even if it is the same as a Beck's zapper. Since nobody has found a good use for the device, I'm sure Abbott would patent whatever they do find and make a fortune in their modification or specific use page conditions for a specific ailment.

 

You can test the Beck Zapper for the next 10,000 years, the fact is, it has no merit in terms of electrical healing other then disinfecting dead red blood cells.

The Pharma industry as you call it, is really a healing industry. People are willing to drain their life savings for one more month of life or to get back to doing what they used to do. Do you think Abbott labs would turn down a device that would make them money? They invented the Stent for circulatory and digestive problems. A stent is a piece of Nitinol tubing laser cut into a mesh-like cylinder that can be collapsed and inserted into your aorta or other weak or collapsed or thinning or constricted blood vessel or an intestine section. Abbott's not chemical business got so big thst they split into Abbott and Abbvie. Other companies make hip and knee replacements that drugs just can't compete with (yet). Some market ports to monitor blood sugar levels (and some also deliver medication). I'm sure Big Parma will come up with a licensing, leasing, per use pricing model thst will make them rich. Even if it is the same as a Beck's zapper. Since nobody has found a good use for the device, I'm sure Abbott would patent whatever they do find and make a fortune in their modification or specific use page conditions for a specific ailment.

(1) If the Beck device has never been subject to proper scientific testing, how do you know it has no merit?
(2) You may be right that the healing industry could find a way to profit from Beck's invention. However, the examples you cite all involve ideas that require high tech, thus obviously potentially highly profitable implementation. Investing in a low tech solution surely carries greater risk, from a business perspective (thinking of Buffet's 'moat' here).

 

(1) If the Beck device has never been subject to proper scientific testing, how do you know it has no merit?
(2) You may be right that the healing industry could find a way to profit from Beck's invention. However, the examples you cite all involve ideas that require high tech, thus obviously potentially highly profitable implementation. Investing in a low tech solution surely carries greater risk, from a business perspective (thinking of Buffet's 'moat' here).

I am sure Beck's device was looked at. Saying the Becks decide was never the subject of proper scientific testing is likely untrue. I know at least two "big pharma" companies that are constantly looking into devices and chemicals that are claimed to have healing power. I'm sure the Becks Device has crossed their desk.

Think about your situation. You started this thread by asking a certain elementary question about current flow, then ask us to take a leap of faith with a "what if" Becks Device really worked. Well, that's exactly want Beck wants you to believe (yes, believe but don't think). I assume this is the Beck you are talking about. https://www.bobbeck.com/ Testimonials over research results? Really?

 

I am sure Beck's device was looked at. Saying the Becks decide was never the subject of proper scientific testing is likely untrue. I know at least two "big pharma" companies that are constantly looking into devices and chemicals that are claimed to have healing power. I'm sure the Becks Device has crossed their desk.

Think about your situation. You started this thread by asking a certain elementary question about current flow, then ask us to take a leap of faith with a "what if" Becks Device really worked. Well, that's exactly want Beck wants you to believe (yes, believe but don't think). I assume this is the Beck you are talking about. https://www.bobbeck.com/ Testimonials over research results? Really?

(1) I know of no such tests, and since the investment would in any case be a risky one (for reasons given in my last), I can see why the idea might have been pushed aside. (2) Yes, the reliance on testimonials is unfortunate. But if the healing industry refuses to do proper research into low tech electrical healing, then what else can the Beck people do? None of which is to deny that the whole Beck theory might be mistaken, or even fraudulent. That's precisely why one would have liked it to be properly tested.

 

Yes, the reliance on testimonials is unfortunate.

You say "unfortunate" and I ask, what has Beck done with all of the reviews that were not 5-stars? It's his website. Also, have you read the list of ailments and read the testimonials? I think the guy is a genius, a marketing genius. He turned you into a mouthpiece and he never even met you. Talk about taking a product, turning it into a movement.

here's the list of ailments and the number of testimonials for each...

• ADD / ADHD (3)
• Addictions (8)
• Adrenal Conditions (1)
• Adverse Reactions (5)
• Aging (1)
• AIDS (2)
• Allergies (10)
• Alzheimer's (1)
• Anal Fissure (1)
• Animals & Pets (14)
• Anxiety (15)
• Argyria (3)
• Arrhythmia (2)
• Arthritis (15)
• Asthma (1)
• Athlete's Foot (3)
• Back Pain (6)
• Bacterial (23)
• Bladder Infection (5)
• Blood Conditions (2)
• Blood Pressure (6)
• Bone Conditions (7)
• Brain Conditions (21)
• Broken Bone (1)
• Bronchitis (1)
• Burns (4)
• Cancer (31)
• Candida (6)
• Cataract (2)
• Children (1)
• Cholesterol (1)
• Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (3)
• Circulation (2)
• Claustrophobia (1)
• Cold Sores (1)
• Colds (35)
• Colitis (2)
• Colon Conditions (11)
• Cravings (3)
• Cyst (5)
• Cytomegalovirus (3)
• Dandruff (4)
• Dental Conditions (17)
• Depression (16)
• Diabetes (3)
• Diarrhea (3)
• Digestion (9)
• Dizziness (2)
• Dreams (4)
• E Coli (1)
• Ear Conditions (8)
• Eczema (3)
• Edema (2)
• Emotional Wellbeing (25)
• Energy (51)
• Environmental Toxins (2)
• Epstein-Barr Virus (4)
• Eye Conditions (14)
• Fatigue (19)
• Fever (4)
• Fibromyalgia (4)
• First Aid (1)
• Flu (29)
• Food Poisoning (1)
• Fracture (4)
• Fungal (10)
• Gastrointestinal Issues (2)
• Gingivitis (1)
• Glaucoma (1)
• Hair Conditions (4)
• Headaches (16)
• Hearing (2)
• Heart Conditions (8)
• Heartburn (1)
• Heavy Metal Poisoning (2)
• Hepatitis (8)
• Herniated Discs (1)
• Herpes (6)
• Hives (2)
• Hodgkins (1)
• HPV Human Papilloma (1)
• Immune System (7)
• Infection (100)
• Inflammation (40)
• Insect Bites (10)
• Insomnia (7)
• Itching (7)
• Jaw (2)
• Joint Conditions (13)
• Kidney Conditions (4)
• Leukemia (3)
• Liver Conditions (16)
• Lung Conditions (10)
• Lupus (1)
• Lyme Disease (7)
• Lymph System (5)
• Lymphoma (2)
• Macular Degeneration (1)
• Malaria (1)
• Memory Issues (11)
• Menstrual Issues (1)
• Mental Disorder (29)
• Mental Function (33)
• Mercury (1)
• Migraines (6)
• Mononucleosis (1)
• Morgellons Disease (1)
• Multiple Sclerosis (3)
• Muscle Conditions (6)
• Nerve Conditions (11)
• OCD Obsessive Compulsive (1)
• Osteoarthritis (2)
• Pain (56)
• Panic Attacks (4)
• Paralysis (1)
• Parasites (10)
• Periodontitis (1)
• Peripheral Neuropathy (1)
• Plants (2)
• Poison Ivy/Oak (1)
• Prostate Conditions (9)
• Psoriasis (1)
• Rash (9)
• Relaxation (14)
• Rheumatoid Arthritis (4)
• Sciatica (1)
• Scoliosis (1)
• Sensory Issues (1)
• Shingles (2)
• Sinus Conditions (13)
• Skin Conditions (44)
• Sleep Issues (18)
• Sore Throat (11)
• Spine Conditions (8)
• Sports Injury (3)
• Sprain (4)
• Staph Infection (2)
• Stress (1)
• Swollen Glands (1)
• Tendon Conditions (4)
• Thyroid Conditions (4)
• Tinnitus (1)
• TMJ (1)
• Toothache (6)
• Tumor (16)
• Ulcers (2)
• Urinary Conditions (7)
• Vertigo (1)
• Viral (40)
• Warts (2)
• Weight Issues (5)
• Worms (2)
• Wound (10)
• Yeast Infection (2)

 

(1) I know of no such tests, and since the investment would in any case be a risky one (for reasons given in my last), I can see why the idea might have been pushed aside. (2) Yes, the reliance on testimonials is unfortunate. But if the healing industry refuses to do proper research into low tech electrical healing, then what else can the Beck people do? None of which is to deny that the whole Beck theory might be mistaken, or even fraudulent. That's precisely why one would have liked it to be properly tested.

And by the way (in case this needs explaining): I did not come here to peddle or promote Beck or any other electrical healing devices. I am interested in the possibility of low tech electrical healing, which it seems to me would require some knowledge of how low amp electricity travels through the human body, and thought actual electrical engineers might possess such knowledge. That is all.

 

You say "unfortunate" and I ask, what has Beck done with all of the reviews that were not 5-stars? It's his website. Also, have you read the list of ailments and read the testimonials? I think the guy is a genius, a marketing genius. He turned you into a mouthpiece and he never even met you. Talk about taking a product, turning it into a movement.

here's the list of ailments and the number of testimonials for each...

• ADD / ADHD (3)
• Addictions (8)
• Adrenal Conditions (1)
• Adverse Reactions (5)
• Aging (1)
• AIDS (2)
• Allergies (10)
• Alzheimer's (1)
• Anal Fissure (1)
• Animals & Pets (14)
• Anxiety (15)
• Argyria (3)
• Arrhythmia (2)
• Arthritis (15)
• Asthma (1)
• Athlete's Foot (3)
• Back Pain (6)
• Bacterial (23)
• Bladder Infection (5)
• Blood Conditions (2)
• Blood Pressure (6)
• Bone Conditions (7)
• Brain Conditions (21)
• Broken Bone (1)
• Bronchitis (1)
• Burns (4)
• Cancer (31)
• Candida (6)
• Cataract (2)
• Children (1)
• Cholesterol (1)
• Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (3)
• Circulation (2)
• Claustrophobia (1)
• Cold Sores (1)
• Colds (35)
• Colitis (2)
• Colon Conditions (11)
• Cravings (3)
• Cyst (5)
• Cytomegalovirus (3)
• Dandruff (4)
• Dental Conditions (17)
• Depression (16)
• Diabetes (3)
• Diarrhea (3)
• Digestion (9)
• Dizziness (2)
• Dreams (4)
• E Coli (1)
• Ear Conditions (8)
• Eczema (3)
• Edema (2)
• Emotional Wellbeing (25)
• Energy (51)
• Environmental Toxins (2)
• Epstein-Barr Virus (4)
• Eye Conditions (14)
• Fatigue (19)
• Fever (4)
• Fibromyalgia (4)
• First Aid (1)
• Flu (29)
• Food Poisoning (1)
• Fracture (4)
• Fungal (10)
• Gastrointestinal Issues (2)
• Gingivitis (1)
• Glaucoma (1)
• Hair Conditions (4)
• Headaches (16)
• Hearing (2)
• Heart Conditions (8)
• Heartburn (1)
• Heavy Metal Poisoning (2)
• Hepatitis (8)
• Herniated Discs (1)
• Herpes (6)
• Hives (2)
• Hodgkins (1)
• HPV Human Papilloma (1)
• Immune System (7)
• Infection (100)
• Inflammation (40)
• Insect Bites (10)
• Insomnia (7)
• Itching (7)
• Jaw (2)
• Joint Conditions (13)
• Kidney Conditions (4)
• Leukemia (3)
• Liver Conditions (16)
• Lung Conditions (10)
• Lupus (1)
• Lyme Disease (7)
• Lymph System (5)
• Lymphoma (2)
• Macular Degeneration (1)
• Malaria (1)
• Memory Issues (11)
• Menstrual Issues (1)
• Mental Disorder (29)
• Mental Function (33)
• Mercury (1)
• Migraines (6)
• Mononucleosis (1)
• Morgellons Disease (1)
• Multiple Sclerosis (3)
• Muscle Conditions (6)
• Nerve Conditions (11)
• OCD Obsessive Compulsive (1)
• Osteoarthritis (2)
• Pain (56)
• Panic Attacks (4)
• Paralysis (1)
• Parasites (10)
• Periodontitis (1)
• Peripheral Neuropathy (1)
• Plants (2)
• Poison Ivy/Oak (1)
• Prostate Conditions (9)
• Psoriasis (1)
• Rash (9)
• Relaxation (14)
• Rheumatoid Arthritis (4)
• Sciatica (1)
• Scoliosis (1)
• Sensory Issues (1)
• Shingles (2)
• Sinus Conditions (13)
• Skin Conditions (44)
• Sleep Issues (18)
• Sore Throat (11)
• Spine Conditions (8)
• Sports Injury (3)
• Sprain (4)
• Staph Infection (2)
• Stress (1)
• Swollen Glands (1)
• Tendon Conditions (4)
• Thyroid Conditions (4)
• Tinnitus (1)
• TMJ (1)
• Toothache (6)
• Tumor (16)
• Ulcers (2)
• Urinary Conditions (7)
• Vertigo (1)
• Viral (40)
• Warts (2)
• Weight Issues (5)
• Worms (2)
• Wound (10)
• Yeast Infection (2)

Did you miss the part where I said that I personally doubted his claims?

 

Did you miss the part where I said that I personally doubted his claims?

And by the way: Beck died decades ago (allegedly from a household fall, but who knows). He published the specs for his zapper online, for free, and to my knowledge did not profit in any way from the endeavor. He was basically a retired physicist (who used to work for the Navy). The website you mention is run by others, perhaps with a profit motive, I don't know.

 

Did you miss the part where I said that I personally doubted his claims?

Nope, I didn't miss it. Plausible deniability is a necessary part of every snake oil salesman's pitch. That way he has an "out" if a previous customer shows up at a current pitch.

 

And by the way: Beck died decades ago (allegedly from a household fall, but who knows). He published the specs for his zapper online, for free, and to my knowledge did not profit in any way from the endeavor. He was basically a retired physicist (who used to work for the Navy). The website you mention is run by others, perhaps with a profit motive, I don't know.

From a household fall after receiving a large electric shock? Coroner - "that burn on is arm is not enough to kill him but the fall off the stool and tumble down the stairs likely did him in."

 

Nope, I didn't miss it. Plausible deniability is a necessary part of every snake oil salesman's pitch. That way he has an "out" if a previous customer shows up at a current pitch.

So, to be clear, you are calling me a liar, and accusing me of joining this online group for the purposes of selling Beck devices - or to promote low tech electrical snake oil more generally?

 

So, to be clear, you are calling me a liar, and accusing me of joining this online group for the purposes of selling Beck devices - or to promote low tech electrical snake oil more generally?

From my interaction with you today, it seems that you've been, somehow, persuaded that "low tech" electric currents have healing power and you seem to have adopted the language and techniques of the websites or people who have convinced you that low tech electrical devices have healing powers.

I am not calling anyone a liar.

 

And by the way: Beck died decades ago (allegedly from a household fall, but who knows). He published the specs for his zapper online, for free, and to my knowledge did not profit in any way from the endeavor. He was basically a retired physicist (who used to work for the Navy). The website you mention is run by others, perhaps with a profit motive, I don't know.

Where are you going with this post ?
It looks like your original question has been answered,

 

From a household fall after receiving a large electric shock? Coroner - "that burn on is arm is not enough to kill him but the fall off the stool and tumble down the stairs likely did him in."

From my interaction with you today, it seems that you've been, somehow, persuaded that "low tech" electric currents have healing power and you seem to have adopted the language and techniques of the websites or people who have convinced you that low tech electrical devices have healing powers.

Look, the only reason I mentioned Beck is because you had claimed, I thought, that none of this stuff had been patented. I would rather not have mentioned it (and now regret doing so) because of the can of worms that I would thereby inevitably be opening. If you re-read our exchange so far, I think you will find that you have address almost none of my other points. Which is a shame, because I'd really like to hear your objections. Can we just leave Beck aside, then?

 

Where are you going with this post ?
It looks like your original question has been answered,

Yes it was, by you, and thanks again. Along with my original thanks I also expressed some concern that our current research regime might, because of the big money involved, be neglecting a proper study of the effects of low amp electricity on the human body. You responded by defending the healing industry, and then we began what I thought was an interesting and potentially useful discussion of that. For example: one thing your responses have crystalized in my own mind is that our confidence in the healing industry is premised on the notion that healing itself is always profitable. At least for me, some real food for thought there, truly. So thanks for that as well.

 

Where are you going with this post ?
It looks like your original question has been answered,

Sorry, only just noticed you're someone else! Please replace 'you' with 'he' in my response, and it should make sense.

 

Yes it was, by you, and thanks again. Along with my original thanks I also expressed some concern that our current research regime might, because of the big money involved, be neglecting a proper study of the effects of low amp electricity on the human body. You responded by defending the healing industry, and then we began what I thought was an interesting and potentially useful discussion of that. For example: one thing your responses have crystalized in my own mind is that our confidence in the healing industry is premised on the notion that healing itself is always profitable. At least for me, some real food for thought there, truly. So thanks for that as well.

Please read before replying.
You say I've answered you but this was my first post in this thread , ..